follow up on 5th wheel hitch location

This morning I went to DOT and talked to an officer with many strips on his sleeve and asked about any laws or regs. on RV 5th wheel location. He said there is no regs. on RV's that he knew of. Also said that there are so many crazy laws out there that it could be possible but he was sure there wasn't.

Then I went to the camper dealer and showed all the research I had from the Internet and also a print out of the post from below. He showed me what the lady on the phone called the state law.
It was a directive from FORD and Husky telling them to install hitches 2 inches behind the axle.
The dealer told me this was going to become a national law by March of 2005.
The dealer felt they did nothing wrong since they were told to install this way by Ford.
They will move my hitch forward if I buy a new installation kit and sign a release of liability form. They must put the hitch where Ford tells them to in order to not void the warranty. They also said they are not allowed to drill hole in the frame and can only use existing holes Ford had in the frame.

I'm still not done with this. Tomorrow I'm going to the Ford dealer and find out what’s going on and if I don't get any answers, I'm calling Dearborn and try to find some engineers to tell me what’s going on here. I wish I can put a copy of that paper on this forum for you all to see.
Later.

If Ford can not back up this directive with some data I think you need to go after Ford. The trailer hitch place was doing what they were told to do per Ford the maker of your truck. In fact if holes were not drilled in frame to install your claim may be with the manufacture of the hitch. If it is bolted in pre existing holes it can only be mounted in one spot. If holes were drilled I would like to see the instructions that came with this hitch. Hitch manufactures have researched all models to make sure their placement will distribute the weight properly.

Now with that said I can not believe that this directive is real. You may have a copy but does it look authentic from Ford. The reason I ask this is NO ONE!!! I MEAN NO ONE!!! can tell you where to place your 5th wheel. Unless Ford has some manufacture flaw that does not allow frame to stand up with 5th wheel in another spot they should not care.
The DOT does not care as long as your weight is correct per axle.
Look at large trucks. The 5th wheel is on a slide that moves about 2 ft front to back. From center of two axles to center of front axel. Moving it 2" moves about 1% of the trailer weight. So a 50,000 lb trailer moved 2" or one notch moves 500 lbs from back to front axle.

Things that need to be considered with a 5th wheel.
Does the trailer hit your cab? This is why they make slide units for pickups. So you can slide it up for travel and back for parking.
The amount of weight on your front and rear axle. This is the most important thing. Centered on the axle will give the best ride but may not move enough weight forward to front axle. Moving it behind the axle is sure to make the front end lighter. The weight of trailer has nothing to do with where 5th wheel goes. This is covered under GVWR and placement of trailer axles.

You really need to weight this unit before you call Ford so you know what you are talking about. Take it to a truck stop and weigh the entire rig. ($8.00) Then pull around back and drop trailer and reweigh truck only. (1.00 for reweighs) Now compare the two tickets. This will tell you every thing you need to know. It will show you if your front end is getting lighter and by how much. It will tell you if the load is distributed over the truck correctly.

According to him Texas does not care where you put your hitch as long as it is a weight certified hitch and is installed to the state codes for safety, and that the weight of the axle does not exceed the legal weight for your class truck.

Then he went on to tell me that personally he thinks your dealer has put your hitch in the wrong place. It's not illegal where it is but it is not as safe as an ahead of the axle position would be.

I just emailed you a Kerry bumpersticker for a reward since yer in such a good mood today ;^)

From all the install manuals I've read, most state there's less than 1% front axle loading difference from 4" behind to 4" in front of the axle.

From a optimum pulling stand point, axle center line to forward of axle center line pulls best.

If you want to see in writing what the Dealer is told to install too, including drilling holes and where you can drill those holes, framing welding, etc; can be found on the Ford commerical truck website titled
"Ford Body Builders Handbook"

For 2005 Ford has changed several items on the F250 to F550 spec's. I just repeating what I've read on different websites and not from Ford other than when Ford was direct quoted;

Frames on the F250/F350 SWR has changed to a heavier frame to be rated at 23,500 GCWR, tops in the industry.

4wd drive axles on the F250/F350 SWR are now a coil frame attached attached by a strut to the frame, simular to Dodge, which was a night mare the first few years for Dodge (weak design)

F350/F450/F550 DRW will still use the leaf spring mounting on 4wd, much stronger design of Fords past.

Both Dodge and Ford Both look the same and if Ford took off the "blue Oval" in the center of the grill, it's close to a Dodge look.

That was the only differences I was looking at as I'm sure there's more.

You would need the builders handbook for your model year, not 2005 which may be why Ford has changed mounting deminsions.

I've seen the 2003 manaul and your good there before the axle as in previous years but I haven't looked at a 2004 manual.

T_Bone

For stability of the pull,ie; trailer bucking, trailer push, then 2" ahead of axle center line seams to work well with most pick-up/trailer combo's.

Most RV trailers there probably won't be much difference from axle center line to 2" ahead. If the hicth mfg are correct, 1% relates to less than 100lbs front axle weight on most pick-ups and will not effect how well the trailer will pull.

Then there's that new trend of some RV mfg's trying to let SWR pick-ups pull there trailers by setting the RV axles forward thus removing pin weight. With that type of RV trailer it's not going to matter where you place the 5th wheel but will make a difference on how you load the trailer but at the best the trailer will pull very poor. Here, a DRW would not make much difference.

There never used to be a problem with RV pin weights until mfg's started rating there vechiles for GCWR. Since our society has went with the attitude that one is not responable for there actions and can sue for a quadzillion every time they stub there toe we get regulations.

If your dealing with a DRW pick-up then there's such a stability increase Vs SWR that 5th wheel placement is less critical.

The longer the pin to center line of axles the more stable the trailer pulls but at the same time increases pin weight. Very few DRW pick-ups will have a problem with pin weight of most RV trailers but most SWR pick-ups will have a problem with the larger 5th RV's.

T_Bone