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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

OT -Are we teaching our kids NOT to pay attention?

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NC Wayne

08-30-2004 20:22:31




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I just read the posts concerning "stupid" dads and the resulting followups. I don"t want to start another long discussion on stupid people here, that"s already been done in previous posts. What I would like to bring up though is something that the other posts overlooked. That is how all the "Safety Features" can often make a piece of equipment just as dangerous for children and adults as one with no safety features at all. Take for example backup alarms. How many of you have kids that make the beep-beep noise when they"re riding their tricycle, bicycle, or just playing with toys, when they back up??? My roomates boy (9yrs old) does it and my niece (2yrs old) does it. Both have been tought through TV, toys, etc that when a vehicle backs up there is gonna be an alarm...but what happens when that alarm breaks and isn"t there??? Basically they are being conditioned for the vehicle to let them know what it"s doing instead of them having use their own senses to verify what it"s actually doing. Then look at your "Average Joe" that gets an add on for his car or truck....Now it has an alarm, so now he doesn"t have to look good behind him before he backs up because everybody (Kids and adults) is automatically gonna know what he"s doing and their simply gonna move before he runs over them.....Either way it"s not painting a pretty picture in my opinion. Machinery is no more or less dangerous today than it was 25 or even 100 years ago, gears are still doing their thing, engines are still doing their thing, levers are still doing their thing, etc etc etc. The problem nowdays is that people in general have come to rely on the "safety Features" to keep them safe and that idea only goes so far. Safety is something you learn and practice on a daily basis, it"s not something that comes from some educated engineers "better design" or some government officials pen that knows nothing at all about the equipment he is "making safe" for the public. We all use equipment everyday that is dangerous, but learing, common sense, and paying attention are what keeps us all alive and our bodies intact. One last comment and I"m out of here...It used to be "survival of the fittest and smartest", but it"s not like that anymore. Nowdays with OSHA, MSHA, and all the other government agencies that protect the stupid people from themselves, the "stupid gene" is thriving in society. The big problem is that the ones that carry it are breeding and passing it on and their numbers are multiplying rapidly.....
Just my .02

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Carm

09-01-2004 07:41:48




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 Re: OT -Are we teaching our kids NOT to pay attent in reply to NC Wayne, 08-30-2004 20:22:31  
I believe that we become desensitized to all of the safety and warning placards and devices. I mean how many people take the time to ever read all of the safety placards on a piece of equpment? Or what about backup alarms, I see people totally ignoring these things, I have been guilty of it myself. Instead of being an unconscious reaction to the placards or horns by reading or listening, it is now a conscious effort to be sure I pay attention when I am presented with just such a thing.

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TimFL

08-31-2004 09:50:04




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 Re: OT -Are we teaching our kids NOT to pay attent in reply to NC Wayne, 08-30-2004 20:22:31  
I agree with what you say but for me the problem is not the safety equipment but the govt mandates that force us to use them. Lets take air bags, shouldn't they at least have a switch to turn them off. A friend of mine twice has had air bags deploy from hitting potholes on the farm. Them things are rough on the body. Back up alarms have their place but not forced on everything. Seat belts have their place but when you are putzing around the farm that beeper telling you to buckle up is agravating. My take on things is that stuff is going to happen. That is a part of life. But to try and saftey device us to the point that we no longer have to take any personal responsibility for our actions is insane. Just lock us all in separate rubber padded rooms so we dont hurt ourselves or others.

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dbear

08-31-2004 13:33:37




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 Re: OT -Are we teaching our kids NOT to pay attent in reply to TimFL, 08-31-2004 09:50:04  
I suppose it's not really the government's fault. Afterall, they're just responding to pressure from the business community to cover their a$$es after the ignorant decisions handed down by well-meaning but ignorant judges in thousands of inane civil cases - "How was I to know that hot coffee is really hot?" How can we expect our kids to be responsible for their actions when we as a society keep placing the blame on someone or something else???

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TheRealRon

08-31-2004 10:14:03




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 Re: OT -Are we teaching our kids NOT to pay attent in reply to TimFL, 08-31-2004 09:50:04  
There are three kinds of people...

People who make things happen

People who watch things happen

People who wonder "what the he$$ happened?"

You are obviously in the latter category!



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Alberta Mike

08-31-2004 15:01:28




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 Re: OT -Are we teaching our kids NOT to pay attent in reply to TheRealRon, 08-31-2004 10:14:03  
Ron, another one of your rude and silly posts! Good grief, have you nothing better to do than criticize others? I'd love to have Dr. Phil get you on the couch and see what is making you tick. Could I ask a question? What do you do for a living?



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TheRealRon

09-01-2004 01:51:02




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 Re: OT -Are we teaching our kids NOT to pay attent in reply to Alberta Mike, 08-31-2004 15:01:28  
Just because you don't understand something doesn't make it rude. Now go back to sleep!



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Alberta Mike

09-01-2004 03:54:20




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 Re: OT -Are we teaching our kids NOT to pay attent in reply to TheRealRon, 09-01-2004 01:51:02  
You still didn't tell us what you do for a living. I know, you write books on adolescent rudeness.



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TimFL

08-31-2004 14:10:18




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 Re: OT -Are we teaching our kids NOT to pay attent in reply to TheRealRon, 08-31-2004 10:14:03  
Explain to me why it is that you say I am in the group that is wondering what happened based on the fact that I dont think it is the governments job to tell me how to take care of myself and my family.



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TheRealRon

09-01-2004 01:49:34




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 Re: OT -Are we teaching our kids NOT to pay attent in reply to TimFL, 08-31-2004 14:10:18  
Look up the term "representative democracy". In this country, you ARE the government. Don't like something? Change it!

People who sit around and complain about the government remind me of a kid trying to explain to his mom how the lamp in the living room got broke... "it broke all by itself, mom!". It's really cute when you are 5 years old; it's pathetic when you are an adult.



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TimFL

09-01-2004 11:09:52




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 Re: OT -Are we teaching our kids NOT to pay attent in reply to TheRealRon, 09-01-2004 01:49:34  
Ron it has little to with me voting, which I do thank you. It has alot to do with poeple like you who send their family inside instead of teaching them to be responsible while you operate a tractor. It is people that expect the govt to take protect them so that when they do something stupid they dont have to be accountable for it. And as you said "In this country, you ARE the government" and by the vast majority the yous of this country dont want to be responsible for their actions.
And I think you should spend a little time in the mirror when you start accusing people of being pathetic.

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Tim in NB

09-01-2004 13:42:24




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 Re: OT -Are we teaching our kids NOT to pay attent in reply to TimFL, 08-31-2004 22:39:22  
I don"t think American factory jobs are lost to us in Canada. We are losing them to a place a little further south.



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JT

08-31-2004 10:18:40




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 Re: OT -Are we teaching our kids NOT to pay attent in reply to TheRealRon, 08-31-2004 10:14:03  
Then there is people who do not have a clue.
why should government force all the laws down my throat to supposedly protect me. Have you every been in a situation where the safety thing causes more damage then the accident, I have. All the government bull is for people who are book smart and common sense dumb, and do have a clue.



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TheRealRon

08-31-2004 11:00:04




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 Re: OT -Are we teaching our kids NOT to pay attent in reply to JT, 08-31-2004 10:18:40  
No doubt you are one of the whiners who doesn't vote!

Don't like the way things are? Change them!



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Redman

08-31-2004 11:08:58




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 Re: OT -Are we teaching our kids NOT to pay attent in reply to TheRealRon, 08-31-2004 11:00:04  
no doubt you are one of the people that believe in all the rules and that they are in place to keep you safe.
have you ever seen a car on its roof?how good does the seatbelt work then?i'll tell you how it works,it works real good as it holds you up in the seat so your head can help hold the roof up.
maybe you should let your wife and kids go outside and you stay in the house instead,from the sounds of it you can't trust yourself on a piece of equipment and your wife must not either if she stays in the house just because you are on the tractor.

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harley1983

08-31-2004 14:21:39




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 Re: OT -Are we teaching our kids NOT to pay attent in reply to Redman, 08-31-2004 11:08:58  
Yeah Redman. You read yesterday"s rantings too huh. I wondered how long it would take for somebody to pick up on Ron"s "submissive" family staying in the house all the time while he is out playing in the fields. Good on ya, Harley



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Steve450

08-31-2004 11:50:23




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 Re: OT -Are we teaching our kids NOT to pay attent in reply to Redman, 08-31-2004 11:08:58  
I have been a firefighter for 18 years and have seen my share of wrecks. The guy we scraped off of the road last week when his vehicle went upside down would not be 6 feet in the ground if the seat belt that he did NOT have on would have been in place to hold him inside the car. I'll take the seat belt. Pennsylvania is crazy in the fact that they made seatbelt use mandatory a few years ago, and then just last year repealed the helmet law for motorcycles. I get a kick out of the "freedom riders" that dress all up in their leather jacket, chaps, boots etc to "prevent roadrash" and then go with out a helmet. Makes a whole lot of sense. I also think that anyone silly enough to go without seatbelts or motorcycle helmets should sign a waver that states that we the taxpayers do not have to pay to keep your sorry butt in a hospital for years when you get turned into a turnip because of not using these safety devices.

Ok, there's my rant for today.

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Paul in Mich

08-31-2004 20:15:29




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 Re: OT -Are we teaching our kids NOT to pay attent in reply to Steve450 , 08-31-2004 11:50:23  
Yeah, but what about the guy on the organ doner waiting list, doesnt he deserve a needless fatal accident to serve his needs?



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Jeff Oliver

08-31-2004 16:51:24




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 Re: OT -Are we teaching our kids NOT to pay attent in reply to Steve450 , 08-31-2004 11:50:23  
This is gonna sound bad but here in Tn we have had mandatory helmet laws forever ( Which I am glad of) and the seat belt law for 10yrs or so. I will admit that i don't wear my belt as I should just mainly cause I hoestly don't think of it out of habit ( my kids however remind me often) . I will NOT however get on the raod without my helmet! Kinda strange the irony in that huh? I do think it is a persons choice to wear one or not but I also agree tht if you are not going ot wear a helmet then you should sign something to assume liability for an accident. You can be a free as you want to be but to me it is plain stupid to ride without one. Had a guy about a month ago cut a deer in half on my road with a motorcycle. He got 5 cracked vertera and alot of road rash but he is alive because of his helmet. it was scratched and beat up bad but he had no head trauma.

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Mark - IN.

08-31-2004 15:45:55




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 Re: OT -Are we teaching our kids NOT to pay attent in reply to Steve450 , 08-31-2004 11:50:23  
Oh, as a helmetless scooter rider, I've questioned myself from time to time as to whether or not I'd better off as a good looking vegetable, or a dead one. Personal preference I guess, and since I've never been accused of being good looking...



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JT

08-31-2004 11:18:25




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 Re: OT -Are we teaching our kids NOT to pay attent in reply to Redman, 08-31-2004 11:08:58  
No doubt you have also been in that position, I was and am glad I did not have a seat belt or coulda been dead.



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Redman

08-31-2004 11:39:08




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 Re: OT -Are we teaching our kids NOT to pay attent in reply to JT, 08-31-2004 11:18:25  
did a tour in a truck for 2 years,seen all sorts of things.
seen a wreck once when some kids pulled a bunch of signs down and switched them around.
a family got on the interstate going the wrong way on mt sandstone,to make a long story short they met a T-600 Kenworth at the top of the hill and all were killed.
i guess those kids were some of those that were locked in the house and watched a little too much TV.

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JT

08-31-2004 11:06:20




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 Re: OT -Are we teaching our kids NOT to pay attent in reply to TheRealRon, 08-31-2004 11:00:04  
No doubt you are one of those that do not have a clue. I vote every election, hoping we will get something better than the morons we have in government now. I cannot buy my way around government, because, unless you can buy your way around, you are stuck with the morons that have already been bought.



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andy b.

08-31-2004 09:36:15




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 Re: OT -Are we teaching our kids NOT to pay attent in reply to NC Wayne, 08-30-2004 20:22:31  
this thread (and the two previous ones that spawned it) have been interesting reading. one summer during college i worked at a warehouse and became good friends with the manager, Mike. he had this story to relate to me during a discussion of "safety features":

Mike worked for a metal fabrication place that had many large stamping machines to form whatever it was they were making. one of the machines was a huge press with several "safety" features. there was a large guard that came down between the operator and press, as well as a pair of cables that connected to heavy gloves the operator wore. as the hydraulic ram came down, these cables were pulled over a set of pulleys and pulled the operator's hands out from under the ram and back behind the guard. Mike said the guy who normally operated this large press would place the piece of metal under the ram, and relax his arms and the cables would pull his hands out as the ram came down. the operator had been doing this for months (if not years i guess). can any of you see where this is going????
one day the safety cables jumped off the pulleys and instead of pulling the operator's hands out like they had untold times previously, the guy's hands were left under the ram and crushed with about 50 tons of pressure. Mike said when he went over and they pulled the guy out his hands were basically two piles of mush.
there is only one true safety device. it is a plain shade of gray and is contained in an off-white colored vessel made of calcium resting between your shoulders. you have a brain for a reason, and it isn't to keep your eyes from rolling back into your skull.

andy b.

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Paul in Mich

08-31-2004 20:23:36




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 Re: OT -Are we teaching our kids NOT to pay attent in reply to andy b., 08-31-2004 09:36:15  
I bet that guy had a hard time holding up enough fingers to order 4 beers. Its like the guy who loses all his fingers in a shear, and when told by the emergency physician that the injury was such a clean cut that had the guy only had the forsight to bring his fingers to the emergency room, they could have reattached them. The guy said he thought of it at the time, but didnt have anything with which to pick them up off the floor.

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Jeff Oliver

08-31-2004 16:57:41




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 Re: OT -Are we teaching our kids NOT to pay attent in reply to TheRealRon, 08-31-2004 07:34:33  
I do vote! If you don' vote then don't gripe about what you get! I don't vote party line, Why should I? I don't agree with everything either party is for. I do write my representatives. I do make informed choices. yes i do all of that. The reality is 95% of the time it really doesn't matter because they are going to do what they want to anyway.



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JT

08-31-2004 10:13:36




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 Re: OT -Are we teaching our kids NOT to pay attent in reply to TheRealRon, 08-31-2004 07:34:33  
1. Yes I vote
It don't really matter, the jackoff that is in office is gonna do what he is paid to do by all the special interest groups. I usually vote for the less of two evils, and hope for the best. I did not vote for GW, but I have to put with his foolish shenanigans. So as far as I am concerned, I am not represented in government, they are not doing what is in my best interest, just theirs.

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TheRealRon

08-31-2004 11:05:00




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 Re: OT -Are we teaching our kids NOT to pay attent in reply to JT, 08-31-2004 10:13:36  
Good thing our "Founding Fathers" weren't as lazy as you or we would all be singing "Hail to the Queen".



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JT

08-31-2004 11:08:56




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 Re: OT -Are we teaching our kids NOT to pay attent in reply to TheRealRon, 08-31-2004 11:05:00  
that makes a lot of sense?????



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TheRealRon

08-31-2004 13:30:19




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 Re: OT -Are we teaching our kids NOT to pay attent in reply to JT, 08-31-2004 11:08:56  
No wonder you don't vote... you were asleep in civics class!



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JT

08-31-2004 15:57:41




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 Re: OT -Are we teaching our kids NOT to pay attent in reply to TheRealRon, 08-31-2004 13:30:19  
Are you just typing to see your name on the computor or what? you make no sense to me at all. Plus you must not be able to read, I have stated more than once I do vote. What do civics classes have to do with your comments that make no sense????



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Just

08-31-2004 07:59:07




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 Re: OT -Are we teaching our kids NOT to pay attent in reply to TheRealRon, 08-31-2004 07:34:33  

one point here. Consider that my information is what I get from the news so I cannot say that it is fact. Both Bush and Kerry have elected to not participate in the federal funding for cantidates. Why? Beacuse they do not want to answer to the people about the financing of their campaigns. So representing the people begins with this attitude.



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TimFL

08-31-2004 09:17:31




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 Re: OT -Are we teaching our kids NOT to pay attent in reply to Just, 08-31-2004 07:59:07  
If you are depending on the news for your voting information then that is you first mistake. Your second mistake is sitting around worrying about who is funding their campaigns, you basically know who they are anyway. If you really want to find out who these people are then do some research yourself. Kerry has been in govt for a while, might you get his record? Likewise Bush? Of course depending on what side your on will decide how you interpret the facts.

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Hendrik

08-31-2004 06:31:18




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 Re: OT -Are we teaching our kids NOT to pay attent in reply to NC Wayne, 08-30-2004 20:22:31  
In The Netherlands and probably in other countries trains have a safety system that leaves the train driver fully responsible for the safe operation of the train. So the train driver does the check up of all critical parts and systems before het sets out and must operate the train in a safe and responsible way. Only when he fails to do so (the worst being driving through a red signal and exceeding the local speed limit) the safety system takes over by applying the brakes so as to obtain the shortest braking distance to a standstill. This system was developed in the 1960's. The more modern train safety systems are more like an automatic pilot and reduce the train driver to a role similar to that of the early astronauts (of whom I read that they did little more to the spacecraft than the monkeys they replaced..., in "The right Stuff" by Tom Wolfe(?)).
I think the older system is fundamentally better and I hate to see it going into retirement.
IMHO, Hendrik

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dbear

08-31-2004 06:17:59




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 Re: OT -Are we teaching our kids NOT to pay attent in reply to NC Wayne, 08-30-2004 20:22:31  
I think what's going on with today's youth is they're missing the connection between action and consequence.

I grew up on a farm and was always surrounded by big, heavy, dangerous equipment that did not have all these wonderful saftey devices our government deems necessary to protect us from ourselves. My father & mother did a great job of impressing upon my young brain the idea that if I did something stupid - e.g. not pay attention to what was where and also where it might be going - that I could DIE! I completely understood that relationship. From what I've witnessed of today's kids, they just don't grasp that concept, quite possibly as a result of these video games in which when one dies, one comes back to life, completely unscathed, and continues on.

For example, I've tried numerous times to convince my 5-year-old granddaugther that she bruised her knee because she was jumping on ball (despite being told that just such a thing could happen), not just kicking it, and that it was not the ball's fault. Someday, I'll get thru...

Depending upon the adults in each child's life, this connection may never be made, as evidenced by the continuous stories in the media of kids performing horrendous acts of violence. This is not say that we still shouldn't hold these dirtbags responsible for their actions. Afterall, punishment for illicit acts is a consequence of performing said actions.

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My Two Cents

08-31-2004 05:52:43




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 Re: OT -Are we teaching our kids NOT to pay attent in reply to NC Wayne, 08-30-2004 20:22:31  
I look at the problem of kids not paying attention from another perspective. It is very difficult to grab kids attention these days for any length of time. Teachers for example are competing with Big Bird on Sesame Street and Arnold Schwartzneger in his Terminator role, not to mention the miriad of video crap that is thrown their way. Ever see a classroom or a textbook these days? It's gotta be loaded with a ton of visual, mind-expanding pictures and graphics just to attract the kid to maybe do a bit of reading. Kids would laugh at our first video games like Pac Man or TV Tennis. After spending my working days in a classroom as a teacher, I've seen the changes over the last 35 years and it's not a pretty sight in my opinion.

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tlak

08-31-2004 05:46:31




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 Re: OT -Are we teaching our kids NOT to pay attent in reply to NC Wayne, 08-30-2004 20:22:31  
Thats an audible warning that the vehicle is going to back up for somebody thats not standing there looking at it. The military had a common practice of honking their horns before moving.
These are large vehicles that the driver may not have good visibility behind them. A lot of the new suv"s fit in this category. I saw a lady putting groceries in her suv/truck and the top of her head was even with the tailgate latch.
I think kids from 1-27 years should be protected by society because thy still haven"t learned not to make stupid mistakes. Like the little kid riding on the tractor fender, she might have decided she wanted to be in her dads lap.
The age range is what ever you want to make it. When was the last time you said "Guess I shouldn"t have done it that way".
Another though, How many of you make your kids wear helmets but then don"t wear them yourself?

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Redman

08-31-2004 05:39:17




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 Re: OT -Are we teaching our kids NOT to pay attent in reply to NC Wayne, 08-30-2004 20:22:31  
i feel that atleast part of your post came from my reply so i feel as if i should explain myself.
on some new equipment when you get out of the seat it stops the machine,we have a MX200 that will stop in a hurry if you get out of the seat.what is really sad is my son started to drive a old allis garden tractor when he was 3,he is now 6 and that is all he does yet.
he sure wants to do more and i think he is mentally mature enough to do a little more,but we have all these new child labor laws so if you get caught letting your kids drive a tractor you could go to jail.

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John (C-IL)

08-31-2004 04:46:29




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 Re: OT -Are we teaching our kids NOT to pay attent in reply to NC Wayne, 08-30-2004 20:22:31  
You guys all forgot the part about the lawyers suing the bejesus out of everybody because the manufacturer didn"t have all of the safety features. Don"t place all of the blame on the government, there"s plenty to go around.



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JT

08-31-2004 16:07:06




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 Re: OT -Are we teaching our kids NOT to pay attent in reply to John (C-IL), 08-31-2004 04:46:29  
The government is the morons who created the laws to let the lawyers sue to bejesus out of everyone. If they enacted laws limiting lawsuits to recovering damages instead of making millionaires out of idiots, then lawsuits would come to a grinding halt or slowdown and insurance would go down, prices of goods would nto be so high, heck it would make the world a better place to live???



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jfky

08-31-2004 03:26:11




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 Re: OT -Are we teaching our kids NOT to pay attent in reply to NC Wayne, 08-30-2004 20:22:31  
kids A-are a product of their environment and B- learn from the people who model behavior to them. Some of the parents who complain about their childrens behavior are the ones who sowed the seeds of rebellion and discontent in their own offspring.



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Mark - IN.

08-30-2004 21:12:24




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 Re: OT -Are we teaching our kids NOT to pay attent in reply to NC Wayne, 08-30-2004 20:22:31  
If I were to give the creators and legislators of such things the benefit of the doubt, and say that they were honestly attempting to "do for you", as opposed "do to you", I would say that the highway to hell is paved with good intentions. But, I"m a synic, and believe that there"s something much more sinister at work here, and that"s a premeditated weakening and dismantling of our American society and strengths. Children are no longer tought at school, they are mentored and molded into anything but scholars, more aptly, brainless, thoughtless jellyfish. Parents are being replaced by "educators". And do that class after class, generation after generation, and you systematically dismantle America as we know it. Abraham Lincoln said, "You do not strengthen the weak by weakening the strong", and there was a time where we wouldn"t accept or allow such a thing to happen, yet now it is the norm, not the exception. Well, I don"t know about you or anyone else, but if I had children, it wouldn"t "take a village" to raise (indoctrinate) them, it would take their parents to raise, love, and nurture them.

Enough of that, it rained all last week and the Allis and the Deere sat out all week (coffee cans over the stacks). Figure got moisture in the mag on the Allis, so couldn"t belly mow. And the Deere fired right now, but caught a stump with the guard on the front of the bush hog and bent it back and down, now acts more like a submarine gouging the grass. Can"t mow until I fix them, because got no children to send out to broaden their horizons by having them fix them. Darn.

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Bill Rolland

08-31-2004 08:23:22




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 Re: OT -Are we teaching our kids NOT to pay attent in reply to Mark - IN., 08-30-2004 21:12:24  
Just a note - Lincoln never said any of that "cannot strengthen the weak..." stuff. Check it out at www.snopes.com.



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Mark - IN.

08-31-2004 16:20:09




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 Re: OT -Are we teaching our kids NOT to pay attent in reply to Bill Rolland, 08-31-2004 08:23:22  
I did go to www.snopes.com" and did a search on "weaken the strong to strengthen the weak", and it came back with not found, or something like that. My search didn't say that he did or did not say that. Maybe I did something wrong. Is a nice site though. Thanks.



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Len....NY

08-31-2004 02:20:53




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 Re: OT -Are we teaching our kids NOT to pay attent in reply to Mark - IN., 08-30-2004 21:12:24  
Hey Mark, very well said. If government is a necessary "evil" so be it. But not in my home.



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Mike (Wi)

08-30-2004 21:02:38




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 Re: OT -Are we teaching our kids NOT to pay attent in reply to NC Wayne, 08-30-2004 20:22:31  
That was my point exactly, and this really kind of bugs me.

They have all these safety features on cars now, and in my opinion they have gone way beyond the point of dimminishing returns....that is to say they have actually made things more dangerous.

The average person gets into a new car, and it has all these features. It handles and stops so well, that they get careless when driving and start to tailgate people on the freeway while talking on the phone and eating at the same time.

Me....I drive a 1960 Chevrolet during the summer months. It has no safety belts, and simple drum brakes all around.....Yet, I feel safer BECAUSE I AM PAYING ATTENTION TO WHAT I AM DOING.

That is all I was trying to say. Drivers and passenger side airbags....disc brakes...abs....and it goes on and on.....YOU PAY THROUGH THE NOSE FOR ALL THESE FEATURES, YET YOU WOULDN'T NEED THEM IF PEOPLE WOULD JUST PAY ATTENTION TO WHAT THEY ARE DOING BEHIND THE WHEEL.

Sorry for the rant.

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I Like Case

08-31-2004 05:49:54




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 Re: OT -Are we teaching our kids NOT to pay attent in reply to Mike (Wi), 08-30-2004 21:02:38  
As the government and the do gooders all try to force the safety equipment upon us, I stand by my opinion that I would rather avoid a wreck than survive one.



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Redman

08-31-2004 05:47:31




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 Re: OT -Are we teaching our kids NOT to pay attent in reply to Mike (Wi), 08-30-2004 21:02:38  
i think it goes back to your first point,they are weakening the strong to try to make it level.
problem is that the people who are the worst drivers and equipment operator are leading our nation,and working in our factories.
just go to the lake and watch some of them back into the lake!
just because you can afford a $50,000 boat does not make you a sailor.



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buickanddeere

08-31-2004 05:36:12




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 Re: OT -Are we teaching our kids NOT to pay attent in reply to Mike (Wi), 08-30-2004 21:02:38  
I'll take a late model with all the safety features and pay attention anyways. I'm not smart enough, fast enough and have such acute senses to compensate for every possible act of nature, my own mistakes and other people's mistakes. I had someone stop at the stop sign and look at me coming on the through road. He was in a hurry on snow and tired to beat me through the intersection. I was at the point where no way to stop for the intersection when he doddled out then couldn't stop. All I could do was swerve a little and hit him on the end of the vehicle instead of a full broadside.

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Paul in Mich

08-31-2004 06:59:15




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 Re: OT -Are we teaching our kids NOT to pay attent in reply to buickanddeere, 08-31-2004 05:36:12  
Thats called "what's the stupidest thing that moron could possibly do between now and when I get past him" and plan for it. Or in two words, "defensive driving"



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Jeff oliver

08-31-2004 17:04:46




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 Re: OT -Are we teaching our kids NOT to pay attent in reply to Paul in Mich, 08-31-2004 06:59:15  
As one of my motorcycle riding buddies says ( and I follow this advise whether one a bike or in a car), when you get on the road just drive like everyone else is trying to run you down and kill you, you'll be alot more alert to others driving that way. Works pretty good for watching the other fella, deer on the other hand..... ....



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buickanddeere

08-31-2004 08:53:41




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 Re: OT -Are we teaching our kids NOT to pay attent in reply to Paul in Mich, 08-31-2004 06:59:15  
That's why I managed to only hit him glancing blow on the corner instead of caving in his drivers door and killing him.



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Redman

08-31-2004 11:35:56




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 Re: OT -Are we teaching our kids NOT to pay attent in reply to buickanddeere, 08-31-2004 08:53:41  
really?try it with a truck once.
80,000 lbs does not stop in 100 feet and at 30 mph the impact is almost certain death for any car it hits.
you drive them by the seat of your pants and no one respects them,and yes if you hit someone with a truck you are guilty until proven innocent.
even if it was not your fault you will more often than not go to court to see if your insurance can fork over some green.

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buickanddeere

08-31-2004 12:42:12




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 Re: OT -Are we teaching our kids NOT to pay attent in reply to Redman, 08-31-2004 11:35:56  
Certainly the truck has a longer stopping distance and slower to turn. The only way to avoid hitting the guy who jumped his stop sign was for me to stop at the intersection my self. Wasn't counting on having to do that after seeing him stop for the sign. This was just before I was dedicated to going through via the laws of physics weither I wanted to or not. When he pulled out it was too late do anything driving any vehicle. Cops took a look and charged him.

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Sid

08-30-2004 20:53:04




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 Re: OT -Are we teaching our kids NOT to pay attent in reply to NC Wayne, 08-30-2004 20:22:31  
But we need those stupid Genes so the government has a work force to draw from.



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harley1983

08-31-2004 18:00:14




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 Re: OT -Are we teaching our kids NOT to pay attent in reply to Sid, 08-30-2004 20:53:04  
The last half dozen posts have said a lot of truth, but have laid the blame on all the wrong people. Who is it that lets their kids go out of the house with 5 1/2 to 6 lbs of prime scrap metal sticking out of every orifice in their body and their pants pockets down around their knees, and a chain drive billfold with a chain bigger than the one I pull start my John Deere A with? I mean come on. Admit it. Sometimes don"t you want to just walk up to one of these gene pool floaters, grab hold of that stud sticking out of his or her chin with your Big Cee Tee brand pliers and start walking toward the parking lot at a spanking good clip just to see how long they can keep up with you? But I digress. That could open up a whole new can of worms. Like my lack of people skills. The other night at a OK Coral restaurant there was a 7 or 8 year old kid behind us and my folks were celebrating their 60th anniversary and this kid was make a lot of noise and acting up in general, and his mommy and daddy had "scolded" him repeatedly and told him to be quiet and all of a sudden it all came back to me how my folks told us once, and that was all that was needed. I turned around in my chair, looked this little throwback right in the eye and said "HEY, knock it off now" and kept looking him in the eye till he thought I was going to fry roast his young cahonies and make him eat them, but the upshot of it was, he was quiet, His folks maybe learned something, I don"t know, and I don"t care, but we had a good meal and my dad and I both about half deaf (from not wearing proper safety hearing protection all those years) continued with our visit. All they need is a little good meaningful guidance and then a swat on the behind when they are about one or two years old and then they know you mean it and you won"t have nearly as much trouble later on, and they can come out of the house when you are on the tractor and will know when you tell them to stay out from under the disc that you mean it. Maybe, Harley

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JT

09-01-2004 17:41:12




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 Re: OT -Are we teaching our kids NOT to pay attent in reply to harley1983, 08-31-2004 18:00:14  
Wow, you were lucky to get one chance to mess up. We did not get to go out very often, but we all knew one thing. If we did not sit down shut up and eat and act respectfully, there would be 2 things happen.
1. red-ass when we got home
2. Mom and Dad went by themselves next time, and we got a crappy babysitter.



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Paul in Mich

09-01-2004 01:31:39




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 Re: OT -Are we teaching our kids NOT to pay attent in reply to harley1983, 08-31-2004 18:00:14  
Harley, So much of what you say is so true, and I agree with you on so many issues, however, let me put my own slant on your thoughts. Personally, I could care less on how parents allow their kids to go out in public, or whether they demand that their kids go to school, sit down and listen to the teacher. Just dont come to me or my family with their hands out when they cant get a job because they have tattoos all over their face (Tattoos are fine if hidden so that they dont cause social ramifications otherwise not caused), cant read a job application, are relegated to menial jobs if hired because of lack of education. As to unruly kids in restaurants, I have been in your shoes, and am appalled at the lack of respect for other patrons that these kids parents display. I like you had one shot to behave in public, lest I get ushered to the parking lot with serious consequences on the immediate horizion. When asked smoking or non-smoking, I always ask if there is a choice between screecher and non screecher section as I find screeching kids far more offensive than smoking, and I am a non smoker.

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Harley1983

09-01-2004 11:59:34




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 Re: OT -Are we teaching our kids NOT to pay attent in reply to Paul in Mich, 09-01-2004 01:31:39  
I LOVE it. I hadn"t ever heard that before, but I"m going to use that one next time. Screecher or non-screecher. When I get back up off the floor from laughing, I"ll try and type some more. Thanks, Harley



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