Hauling Ford 8N with small pickup

It would be 12k on the scales minus pin weight attached to the TV and how most mfg"s rate there trailers.

From what I"ve seen the tire capicity is the weakest link on singles and axles on duals. It would depend on the mfg tho.

Tell me about it. Fords F150 is rated to haul more payload weight than a F250 that has larger brakes, heavier frame, larger differential(s), heavier tires, more lug nuts and more spring weight according to Ford. Just doesn"t make sence at all! Stickly marketing!

T_Bone

Lets run some numbers:

8n= 3000lbs WET, 2717lb dry shipping weight.
trailer= 800lbs, scaled weight or SWAG (scientific wild @ss guess)?
trailer tire capicity? unkown
No trailer brakes

3800#GVW total guessamint, Better than a SWAG as we know the tractor weight. Were shot down here as were over GVWR of the trailer.

TW= 10 To 15% of GVW, 12%TW = 456lbs tongue weight. Your dead in the water here as your hitching is only rated 350lbs. New class III reciever and ball mount required. A class III is rated upto 5000GVWR, Class IV is 10000GVWR. As stated in below posts, consider WD hitching.

Most States require trailer brakes for a 1500lbs or more GVWR and for a good reason. How are you going to stop trailer sway if you don"t have trailer brakes? Anytime trailer sway starts your first reaction would be to manualy apply trailer brakes, let off fuel pedal, then lightly apply TV (tow vechile) brakes. Never try to correct sway with steering or you will loose total control! My State (AZ) is 3000lbs GVW single axle and 6000lbs for a additional brake axle. Again were shot in our foot.

Your trailer is rated 3500 GVWR. I would suspect that would be a flatdeck rating, meaning the 2700lb load (3500-800=2700 allowed load weight) is distributed over the entire deck surface, NOT like hauling a 4 wheel vechile that distributes load weight in FOUR places on the deck. Another strike.

A "car" trailer as it"s called, has wheel rails (beams on heavier rated trailers) that can support the four bearing points of the vechile load over the entire frame of the trailer.

Thats why we have vechile load rated trailers and cargo load rated trailers.

A good vechile rated trailer with a 7000GVWR, tandum electric brake axles, is going for about $1400 new (you can"t build it this cheap yourself).

Sell your cargo trailer for $300 and buy a trailer and hitching that can safely haul your tractor across country.

T_Bone

Trailer brakes are a huge bonus. I"ve NOT got them on my 12", but wish I did (that"s on my "to do" list, rebuild that trailer and add brakes).

You might look into a weight distributing hitch for the truck, too...

Steve

Your states Weights and Standards can pull anyone over for weight and they do not even have to make it a judgment call. That is their job. They can stop every vehicle that passes them and check the weight just like a police officer can stop anyone and ask for a license and proof of insurance. The only thing that stops them is the fact that they get paid the same to sit in the A/C car as they do to tote portable scales all day.

Yes if you are pulling a hobby tractor or RV the DOT can not really mess with you. They are for commercial haulers only. Now if you get into large trucks you better have some documentation that proves you are a hobby. Most will say they are a hobby but how many people do you know that can pay a $2000 a month note for a hobby truck. That gets real iffy if you pass that 26,000 lb threshold.

As far as weights and standards. While they may concentrate on large trucks because that is where the money is they can pull over a motor cycle to check them out. Not to say any officer can pull just any body over to harass them but if you were pulling a tank behind a Camry it would be very obvious that you were endangering my life. Just because it will pull it does not mean it will stop it or handle it at road speeds.

Another point is roads do not have weight limits in the sense you are stating. If a road is limited to 80,000 lbs that does not mean you can run a 2 ton truck at 80,000 lbs no more than you can run your Camry at 80,000 lbs. I do not care what kind of RV you want to call it. Axles have weight limits. Check that bridge sign again and you will see that it states different weights for different size vehicles.

That is like the person that goes to the big orange hardware store in a Camry. They buy 100 stepping stones and pile them in the trunk. The rear end is dragging and the front end is in the air. This person will drive slow and only has 10 miles to go so they think they are safe and are not endangering any one. Not exceeding the speed limit; all lights work; using turn signals ect ect. Can this person be pulled over??
I do not care if it is a very large woman. If it is over weight it is unsafe and that gives them probable cause. Even if it is not over weight they have probable cause because they think it is over weight.

One final note. If this woman with the stepping stones were to hit your wife and kids on her 10 mile trip home I would think you would see it in a different light. Just because weight and standards has better things to do than chase ever soccer mom out there; do not think they can not.

I"ve posted this before for a good read.

My son went to Co. to pick up a 14ft bass boat his Grandfather gave him using his AZ, Ranger pick-up. He"s comes past the scales at Cortez, Co and heads south to the Four Corners. Just as he gets to Four corners about 70miles away, he gets pulled over by DOT;

DOT says "Why didn"t you scale at Cortez?

Son says "I was unware that trailers under 10,000lbs had to scale. Is this a spot check or something?"

DOT says "No, we help Game and Fish out and find most motor homes have over there limit in game. We noticed in the camera your AZ truck plate and the CO boat plate. You need to return to the Cortez scales, wheres your license"

Son hands his "CDL" license to the DOT officer.

About 10 minutes latter DOT officer comes back really pissed. My son is Federal Marshall and every time he gets stopped or questioned, his supervisor has to be notified. Read this as 4 hrs of paper work for the DOT officer :)

He "let him go" for being a fellow officer but got a chewing out for failing to indenifiy himself.

So anything is possible when dealing with DOT!

T_Bone

Welcome To The forum :)

There used to be another t-bone on the 2n forum.

I usually wonder here or on the tool forum.

RV.net? yappers thats me!

T_Bone

In addition, farm equipment traveling under 30 mph basically only needs an orange triangle in the day, plus lights at night. Practically no other regulation - OTHER than weight limits.

So anyhow, my county (as well as the state) has a law that you can only have "x" amount of weight per inch width of tire on the county roads. In spring most county roads are posted for much lower weight ratings as the frost comes out and this is enforced as well.

I assure you, very, very much, that ANYONE in Minnesota can get pulled over _just_ to have their rig weighed. Only reason. And that includes a farm tractor pulling a grain wagon, through a semi / trailer combo. Or a car pulling a camper or cement blocks.

And my county intends to pay for the portable scales they bought last year, so understand, you _can_ get pulled over just for a weigh check. Any time, any where.

Enjoy your messages.

--->Paul

Other than that, good message.

--->Paul

However, I would not _want_ to with a single axle trailer, as that thing is going to hop & bounce all over the place. This will be the most miserable ride of your life. Also I will assume you don"t have brakes on the trailer, & a couple thousand miles will cost you brake job, if you don"t crash out. Stopping distance will be difficult for you. I assume you will be on the interstates at 70-75, and you are taking everything to the max limits legally.

Certainly your call, but I"d look for a different way.

Now, if you bought it 100 miles away, then I"d say sure go for it. That"s a nice leasurly trip & you can be careful for 100 miles & not overdo things.

--->Paul

Here's another approach. It's expensive but solves a lot of problems. Call the national moving truck rental outfits. Find out what it would cost to rent a small moving truck and car hauler. They won't let you off the lot with a mismatched tow vehicle/trailer. If you fry the AT or have other problems, they aren't your problems. Get the damage insurance they offer. Load the tractor and drive around town a bit the day before you will leave on the trip. Practice backing, turning, braking in a large parking lot. Become aware of those nasty overhead objects at gas stations etc. They have signs and the rental truck has a height marked on it. Take your time on the trip and be very aware of high lateral winds. Box vans get moved around quite a bit and you have to pay attention.

Trailer = 1,500
Tractor = 2,600
Nissan 4x4 = 4,600 (approx., incl. people, fluids, and stuff).

His GCWR is 7,700 so he's at least 1,000 lb. over. In my state they seize the whole deal. As well they should... overweight towing is a danger to perfectly innocent people and totally indefensible.

The most common cause of premature AT failure is overheating due to towing. True even with the correct axle ratios and tranny cooler which he most likley does not have.

What if he uses air bags, or additional springs??? See what I mean here. For this application, and being in a non-commercial, passenger class, he WILL NOT be in weight violation. If an officer were to give him a ticket for over weight, towing an 8N the officer should gladly accept a lawsuit for harassment.
Respectfully,
Adam

For many years, all the auto/truck manufacturers have been required BY LAW to provide the US-DOT with all the weight ratings for each vehicle they produce by VIN#. This info goes into a database every cop in the US has access to. That's why when you get stopped they run your VIN#. Ever notice the "bar coding" on your VIN plate? Lots of jurisdictions have bar code readers on their hand-helds and they know more about your truck in 5 seconds that you will ever know.

All the aftermarket garbage you mentioned has ZERO effect on the weight ratings.

Any cop anywhere in this country can stop you for any reason he wants, including no reason. They just make one up. If you cock-off to a cop in my state about his ability to ticket you, you will likely get a Mag-Lite in a place you would not normally expect to find one. At that point, it's "obstructing law enforcement" and 1 year in the slammer. Pales in comparison to the minimum $2,250 fine for overweight operation.

I respectively disagree.

First, the type of drivers license you have makes a difference.

Second, the registered weight also has an impact

Third, Cops are smart enough to pull you over for something else to check your situation out.

IF you have a CDL you can most certainly be pulled over and asked for your log book and weighed if the officer wants. You are also cannot pass a weight station with our being weighed or instructed to pass.

With a passenger car license their more easy going – no logbook or weight station requirement.

Next, a vehicle towing more weight than it’s designed for will sway especially if the trailer is 3 or 4 times over the weight capacity of the towing vehicle. If you have a CDL this equals JAIL – not sure what it means for a passenger car drivers license. Excessive swaying = reckless driving – you most certainly be pulled over for that - the cop can even arrest you and impound the vehicle and trailer if he feels it’s necessary.

Their is also the 10,000 # question that is not at all clear. The federal govt. says you need a CDL plus endorsements to pull a trailer weighing 10,000 or more, most states use a combined weight - NY is 26,000#.

Safety, I certainly would not feel comfortable driving a 1,000 or 2,000 uni-body frame (basically a beer can) with a 12,000# trailer. I want a frame and a little more weight. Even my F-350 will have trouble stopping my loaded 9,998# trailer if the trailer brakes are not adjusted properly. Let’s not forget that 500# or 1,000# tongue weight becomes a lot more when braking - I wouldn’t be surprised if the trailer ripped the hitch right off the car. Light sheet metal simply can’t support the amount of weight that shifts forward when breaking. Also remember an evenly or close to balanced trailer will sway more.

As far as the engine and trans. go – it’s counter intuitive to believe exceeding a towing vehicles capacity by 3 or 4x will not have an impact on reliability. The V6 with a different trans and gear rations might be ok but the trans simply will not. Motor and trans mounts might be the first to go but couldn’t rule out chipping a gear or two.

Adam, you’re correct in pointing out their are a number of loopholes in the law for those that have only a passenger car driver’s license. I hope that some dummy doesn’t mess it up and make everyone’s life more difficult. It only takes one major accident to make headlines and put pressure on our legislatures make some stupid law that doesn’t fix the problem and makes our lives more difficult. Their probably should be a non-commercial license to pull a trailer where the driver has to show good common sense and the ability to handle what he is driving.

On the common sense front – anyone pulling a 12,000 # trailer with a Camery could not only be pulled over but taken away by the guy’s with the little white jackets. You would have to be more than a little crazy to risk your life like this.

Davis In SC

I’d like to know more about the dually. I thought they could handle some serious weight. Ford 8000’s are big but didn’t think they were that heavy - I could be wrong - Or possibly the high sides made it sway more.

Would like to know more

Thanks, guess I was a little off on the Ford 8000 weight.