TRACTOR PARTS Allis Chalmers Case & David Brown Farmall & International Ferguson Ford & New Holland John Deere Massey Ferguson Massey Harris Minneapolis Moline Oliver & Cockshutt Kubota / Yanmar

TRACTOR MANUALS

Allis Chalmers	Case	Farmall IH	Ford 8N,9N,2N	Ford
Ferguson	John Deere	Massey Ferguson	Minn. Moline	Oliver

Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

Seeing Pink - Fertilizer Question

Welcome Guest, Log in or Register

Author

Peanut

09-15-2004 10:48:23

Report to Moderator

I heard about an Illinois company that has developed a pink dye (call Glo Tell) that can be purchased and added to anhydrous ammonia (AA). Apparently the idea is to deter thieves from stealing the AA to make meth because they'll have pink all over them. The stuff is even visible under ultraviolet light up to 72 hours after it is washed off. And if they do steal it their meth is pink and not very good quality.

The dye costs $6 an ounce. They don't say how much is needed to get the real pink effect but I imagine it is a lot.

Questions:
1) Is this a big enough problem that farmers would buy the dye?

2) Wouldn't the farmer get pink all over him/her by handling the AA during their normal fertilizing process?

3) Does this sound like a really expensive gimmick?

I don't use AA for anything nor do I know anyone that does so I am curious to hear what you all think about this dye.

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

John S-B

09-16-2004 08:43:03

Report to Moderator

Re: Seeing Pink - Fertilizer Question in reply to Peanut, 09-15-2004 10:48:23

If I used AA I would'nt keep the tanks around my farm house, why endanger your house and family with the (slight) risk of a leak or some whacked out meth-head. People on meth have been known to keep on coming for several minutes even after fatal gunshot wounds. Most are armed and just don't care. I'd just try to put them in a place thats not visible or far off the road. Criminals should be held accountable for their actions instead of blaming the victims.

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

Allan in NE

09-16-2004 04:16:21

Report to Moderator

Re: Seeing Pink - Fertilizer Question in reply to Peanut, 09-15-2004 10:48:23

Hi Guys,

Enlighten me here. I just opened this thread and have been out of the farming loop far too long, I guess.

Are you saying that the dopers are stealing NH3 right out of a nurse tank setting at the end of the field?

How are they accomplishing that? Or, are they stealing the whole darned trailer?

Allan

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

paul

09-16-2004 09:59:09

Report to Moderator

Re: Seeing Pink - Fertilizer Question in reply to Allan in NE, 09-16-2004 04:16:21

Around here they typically cobble together fittings on a 20 lb lp tank and fill that with liquid. They steal from the nurse tank.

Now, the metal (brass I assume?) on the fittings of an LP tank turn brittle when exposed to pressurised NH3, so a lot of bad 20 lb containers out there....

--->Paul

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

Leland

09-16-2004 04:57:35

Report to Moderator

Re: Seeing Pink - Fertilizer Question in reply to Allan in NE, 09-16-2004 04:16:21

Allen they use coolers glass cookie jars or old freon tanks, these people are so out of it I am suprised they are not tring zip lock bags real problem in my area.

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

rustyfarmall

09-16-2004 07:16:16

Report to Moderator

Re: Seeing Pink - Fertilizer Question in reply to Leland, 09-16-2004 04:57:35

They also use plastic gas jugs, which are prone to rupturing when put under that kind of pressure. In my area, it is not uncommon to have several car fires each year due to raw materials being transported in the trunk. This stuff somehow ignites while traveling on the road, and will usually totally destroy the car, and send any occupants to the burn center, if not killing them immediately. These people are definetely not the sharpest tacks in the box.

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

Leland

09-15-2004 18:58:27

Report to Moderator

Re: Seeing Pink - Fertilizer Question in reply to Peanut, 09-15-2004 10:48:23

The reason for the dye is that 99% of meth heads want a clear product, and the dyd would add 2.00 per tank from what I've told cheap insurance in my book. And anybody dumb enough to leave a tank out in the open deserves to get ripped off. In my part of the country in 3 months they have raided 36 meth labs, so it's a problem we all need to fight bacause the only real way to help a meth head is to shoot them rehab does not help them.

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

paul

09-15-2004 20:49:03

Report to Moderator

Re: Seeing Pink - Fertilizer Question in reply to Leland, 09-15-2004 18:58:27

"And anybody dumb enough to leave a tank out in the open deserves to get ripped off."

To each their own, but I see that as a very ignorant & rude comment, seems you don't know much about it's use to word things like that.

--->Paul

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

thurlow

09-16-2004 07:15:34

Report to Moderator

Re: Seeing Pink - Fertilizer Question in reply to paul, 09-15-2004 20:49:03

Paul, I suppose it's just a sign of the times.....excuse any behavior; your car gets stolen, your fault..... you must have left the keys in it or you didn't have your steering wheel anti-theft bar properly in place; your house gets burgularized, your fault..... your dead-bolts must not be properly installed; your tractor is stolen, your fault..... .why didn't you have it locked up in your shop with 24 hr surveillance. Society must have failed the ones committing these CRIMES..... how can anyone be held responsible for their OWN ACTIONS..... .

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

paul

09-16-2004 09:54:59

Report to Moderator

Re: Seeing Pink - Fertilizer Question in reply to thurlow, 09-16-2004 07:15:34

That's what I'm hearing here. Thought this was one of the last hold-outs of sensible folks. :) :) Ah well, society moves on.

--->Paul

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

09-16-2004 06:07:55

Report to Moderator

Re: Seeing Pink - Fertilizer Question in reply to paul, 09-15-2004 20:49:03

My dad run a fertilizer and chemical business for over 40 years before retiring. And we always delivered what the farmer would use that day and would pick up emptiy trailers in the morning. People know there is a big problem. They should know the chances taken by leaving trailer out over night. The point I am trying to make is leaving a full NH3 tank out in a field unattended would be kind like takin your car to the ghetto, leaving it there with the keys in at and them wonder why your car got stolen.

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

paul

09-16-2004 09:52:29

Report to Moderator

Re: Seeing Pink - Fertilizer Question in reply to JT, 09-16-2004 06:07:55

If I have the coop deliver & pickup the tanks, HOW can I be responsible for them????? HOW does that work? Can I call the coop manager at 11:30pm and have him come out & get the tanks?????

HOW do you blame the farmer for this?

It's just as fair for me to say the siuppliers of NH3 need to offer 24 hour service on delivery & pickup, as it is fair for you guys to try to blame the farmer for this. Not my tank, not my delivery & pickup schedule. WHAT can I do about it? I'm not even sure I can legally transport the tanks with _my_ pickup on public roads, so WHAT can I do about it?????

I called my supplier 2 years ago & said I wanted delivery TUESDAY morning. Drove onto my farm MONDAY late afternoon & there were 3 full NH3 tanks and an applicater sitting on the driveway.

That is MY fault?

--->Paul

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

09-16-2004 12:25:28

Report to Moderator

Re: Seeing Pink - Fertilizer Question in reply to paul, 09-16-2004 09:52:29

Whoe there hoss, don't get your hackles all up, with this meth problem everyone needs to try to work together on this. You need to coordinate with co-op on delivery and only deliver what you are gonna use in a day. I guess co-ops are different now days. We used to pick up empty trailer as late as 9-10 o'clock at night, with one truck following another. I do not remember blaming a farmer for this, because if some dipstick is stealing NH3 from you, you are loosing , then you need to explain this to Mr. Co-op manager or find another source of supply. No it is not your tank, or delivery schedule, but if he wants your business, then he should work with you. As long as you have SMV signs on these trailer you can haul them yourself. We used to deliver NH3 when the customer needed it. Not when we needed to deliver it.

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

Leland

09-16-2004 05:05:43

Report to Moderator

Re: Seeing Pink - Fertilizer Question in reply to paul, 09-15-2004 20:49:03

Paul I am not ignorant ,maybe rude but in my part of the country meth is a real problem. Houses blowing up all the time, shootings thefts and murders. And they put this on tv all the time and INGNORANT farmers still leave tanks out in fields over night. So paul I think you are the ingnorant one, but being ingnorant is not a bad thing it can be cured by getting educated. You should get some on the effects of meth use ,then you might not need a proctoligst to find your head.

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

paul

09-16-2004 09:45:37

Report to Moderator

Re: Seeing Pink - Fertilizer Question in reply to Leland, 09-16-2004 05:05:43

I guess I never am in a good mood when people try to blame the innocent people, as you are doing.

--->Paul

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

Leland

09-16-2004 19:16:09

Report to Moderator

Re: Seeing Pink - Fertilizer Question in reply to paul, 09-16-2004 09:45:37

Blame lies were it falls most farms I have worked on have a rule use it when it arrives and work until the last tank is dry. Then shag it back to the dealer, this HELPS stop 90% of AA thefts. So farmers also become cops to to help curb this problem, just another part of the job the worlds changing fast none for the better only the strong survive METH another hold over from hitler givem hell paul and don't worry I respect your posts I am not bashing you. You see the glass half full I see it half empty.

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

farmermatt

09-15-2004 19:48:06

Report to Moderator

Re: Seeing Pink - Fertilizer Question in reply to Leland, 09-15-2004 18:58:27

"dumb enough to leave a tank out in the open" You must not run much AA. Its not a matter of the tanks sitting at the edge of the field for weeks before they get hit. I left a tank in a field late afternoon one yr and was hit before the next morning. It doesnt seem to bother these guys that tanks are sitting in a farmyard 100 yrds from my house where im eating LUNCH (as in around noon). Thankfully KS has passed legislation clearing farmers of liability from the thefts. Matt

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

Leland

09-16-2004 05:17:09

Report to Moderator

Re: Seeing Pink - Fertilizer Question in reply to farmermatt, 09-15-2004 19:48:06

Matt were I live it's so bad the FEDS put the state AG directors son away for selling AA and carring an AK-47 while delivering it to a lab to trade it for more Meth. And yes it should be a crime for any to leave a tank out were anybody can get to it. Bacause they are hurting not helping so put that in your pipe and smoke it!

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

farmermatt

09-16-2004 20:45:02

Report to Moderator

Re: Seeing Pink - Fertilizer Question in reply to Leland, 09-16-2004 05:17:09

Wow Leland you must have alot of time on your hands to guard every tank and only have possesion of a tank while hooked to the applicator. Sounds like the operations youve been around have a lot of employees to drag those tanks around the second they run dry. This fall and next spring Ill have to watch my back so you dont come arrest me for the criminal acts I perform while applying fertilizer. Leaving a tank unattended... GUILTY AS CHARGED

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

Leland

09-16-2004 21:35:27

Report to Moderator

Re: Seeing Pink - Fertilizer Question in reply to farmermatt, 09-16-2004 20:45:02

farmer matt it can be done the dealers time it to almost the minute. and yes the operations aroud here ,most are quite large but most things are timed so no full ones are left in the open. and now dealers are appling AA for less than you can do it your self. so guys are letting them wear there equipment out and saving money. but given time all tanks will be locked behind 10 foot tall electric fences to keep the meth cookers from getting at it. but farmers need to stop this as much as possiable bacasue if you folks don't the feds will pass all enforcement cost to the wrong people the farmers. and you will be expected to do this on 2.00 corn after all the product user will bear all costs just like the gun makers well i am signing off started hauling corn at 3 am this am bye bye

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

big al

09-15-2004 13:57:12

Report to Moderator

Re: Seeing Pink - Fertilizer Question in reply to Peanut, 09-15-2004 10:48:23

oh come on guys if you would be kind and considerate enough to give them the reources they would not resort to stealing. on another note a local guy is selling all his equipment ford 4000-1000 dollars, a c farmalll 300 dollars, an a farmall 100 dollars-apparently he is hitting the pipe pretty hard and needs the money, of course he has already sold em and I am too late.

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

09-15-2004 12:38:14

Report to Moderator

Re: Seeing Pink - Fertilizer Question in reply to Peanut, 09-15-2004 10:48:23

This pink dye may help but only if it ruins the drug. I really don�t think that just turning the drug pink will slow them down any. The area that we are in (north east Colorado ) has a real meth problem as well. These guys will stop at nothing to get the supplies needed to produce. I have a guy that works in my department that in the past was a meth lab operator. The stories he has to tell are amazing. Anhydrous Ammonia is needed to make the drug and they will pay $500 for a 20 lb propane bottle full. He also told me that they have found that one of the main medications needed (ephedrine) to produce the drug is available in some of the salt and mineral block products that are sold at feed stores and that when to grocery stores crack down they start cooking down salt and mineral blocks to get what they need. Next time I am at the feed store I am going to read a few labels and see if this is true.

It looks like the only people that will be affected will be the farmers.

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

paul

09-15-2004 12:10:32

Report to Moderator

Re: Seeing Pink - Fertilizer Question in reply to Peanut, 09-15-2004 10:48:23

It is a very serious problem, yes. It is well worth dealing with. When the coop delivers the tanks, I keep going until I am done - 2 years ago I got done at 5:30 in the morning, was a long night. I will not let the tanks sit around, way too easy a target.

As usual, just like with the granular N & diesel fuel, all the solutions to the problem will cost _farmers_ money & not the people who are causing the problem.

No, farmers will not add the dye. It will be mandated by regulation, and be added by the suppliers. With increase in fert cost passed on the the farmer.

--->Paul

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

FarmerDave

09-15-2004 12:05:03

Report to Moderator

Re: Seeing Pink - Fertilizer Question in reply to Peanut, 09-15-2004 10:48:23

I been trying to get the biggest of the three feed stores in town to sell 46-0-0 or 33-0-0 in a sack. I got some small places I can't ge the big buggy into.

They ain't wanting to. Is this becuz they can be turned into meth or bombs? Or is it because they like to be disagreeable?

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

farmerboybill

09-15-2004 18:45:14

Report to Moderator

Re: Seeing Pink - Fertilizer Question in reply to FarmerDave, 09-15-2004 12:05:03

The Agronomy center I work for has Urea (46-0-0) in 50 lb sacks. Seems incredibly unhandy to me. Assuming 160 units per acre, you would need 6.5 bags/acre.

Oklahoma city bomb had Ammonium Nitrate (34-0-0) in it. Now, any truckload with over 1000 lbs in it has to be placarded to go down the road. We don't like to deal with Ammonium Nitrate.

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

FarmerDave

09-16-2004 11:14:38

Report to Moderator

Re: Seeing Pink - Fertilizer Question in reply to farmerboybill, 09-15-2004 18:45:14

160 units no sir. My CEC indicates the ground won't grab no more than 60 poundsof N. The barn lot is three acres. It's got cross fencing, buildings, animal sheds, trees, rocks, and a creek running down the middle. IE you can't move one of the big carts around in there.

The vet does not want to drive all over God's county to pull a calf.

I can buy 28-3-3 at the Home Depot but the price is real high.

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

09-15-2004 14:25:25

Report to Moderator

Re: Seeing Pink - Fertilizer Question in reply to FarmerDave, 09-15-2004 12:05:03

34-0-0 was used in the OK City bombing.
46-0-0 was used in the first World Trade Center
attack in 1993.

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

paul

09-15-2004 12:13:51

Report to Moderator

Re: Seeing Pink - Fertilizer Question in reply to FarmerDave, 09-15-2004 12:05:03

You can't put anything in a sack the meth lab folks want. They produce a gas that gets snorted & cuts off oxygen from the brain - makes a high & brain damage along with lung burns. They use several different dangerous gasses/ liquids & cook it all together. The N they use is NH3 only. Granular won't do a thing for them.

--->Paul

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

JMS/MN

09-15-2004 11:30:34

Report to Moderator

Re: Seeing Pink - Fertilizer Question in reply to Peanut, 09-15-2004 10:48:23

Around here, the anhydrous thefts are done either at the fertilizer plant storage area, or when a farmer leaves the tank in the field overnight. Oftentimes, we'll call for a tank to be delivered in a remote field when we're not around, but expect to get there in a few hours- day or night. That's when they hit. The supplier would put the dye in, but the final cost would drift down to the farmer, wether the supplier is private or a co-op. As far as handling- if you do the transfer or hose connections right, you don't get exposed to the anhydrous, but there is always that possibility.

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

Walter

09-15-2004 11:21:20

Report to Moderator

Re: Seeing Pink - Fertilizer Question in reply to Peanut, 09-15-2004 10:48:23

I don't think a farmer would want to get anhydrous ammonia on him it is extremly dangerous. I believe the idea is to color the drugs to discourage their use. This stuff is made with dangerous chemicals and i don't see how that will stop them. I'm in Tennessee and it is a serious problem here. My city council is working on a law to restrict the sales of the medication needed to extract the drugs, but they will just go elsewhere to get it. The best thing is to educate the public to the dangers of not only using this stuff, but also to manufacturing it.

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

09-15-2004 11:34:35

Report to Moderator

Re: Seeing Pink - Fertilizer Question in reply to Walter, 09-15-2004 11:21:20

Most people who use AA, usually wear gloves and protective clothing. This stuff is a vapor and it is very cold and toxic. In any large quantity, It can freeze limbs on contact. Supposedly this pink dye will make the meth their are making useless. Not a bad idea if it works. I know drug makers are not real smart, but anything has got to help.

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

paul

09-15-2004 12:23:50

Report to Moderator

Re: Seeing Pink - Fertilizer Question in reply to JT, 09-15-2004 11:34:35

Pressurized to 100 lbs, NH3 is a liquid. Left to air pressure, it converts itself to a gas. This conversion uses a _lot_ of heat, or in effect refrigerates everything around it to really cold where the liquid changes to a gas.

So, it can be a liquid, or a gas, depending on pressure.

It is not in any way, shape, or form toxic. Not at all. However it very, very, very much wants to combine with water - any & all water, lots of water. It really wants to combine with water. So either the liquid or gas will harm you, scaring your lungs, eyes, skin as it sucks the water out of you. It certainly is dangerous in a concentrated liquid or gas - very dangerous. It will freeze you with the cold issue, and it will have the effect of burning & scaring you as it combines with the water in you. But it is wrong to say it is _toxic_. It is not.

The dye will not make the meth useless, but it will make it traceable. I'm sure farmers & fert plant workers will pick up some of the dye if it is strong enough to last through the meth lab process.

Sudafed tablets are also a needed ingredient for meth - and we can't even get those off the open store shelves. Ask druggests about the shelves being stolen bare.... But, farmers need to pay for this dye stuff in thousdands of gallons of NH3. Seems fair, right?

--->Paul

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

09-15-2004 12:33:10

Report to Moderator

Re: Seeing Pink - Fertilizer Question in reply to paul, 09-15-2004 12:23:50

What you call toxic and what I call toxic is different, I have worked around AA for over 30 years, and if you breath the vapors, it can kill you, to me that is toxic. No the ammonia itself is not toxic. I do not think the farmers should pay for the dye, it should be furnished for free, then every a**hole that is caught making meth should have everything he owns taken away from him, have a sheriff sale and let that pay for any and all law enforcement to stop meth labs. As for making the stuff useless, that is what I had heard in the big rumor mill a while back.

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

JMS/MN

09-15-2004 22:49:11

Report to Moderator

Re: Seeing Pink - Fertilizer Question in reply to JT, 09-15-2004 12:33:10

If you 'breathe' the vapors- it is toxic. The ultimate user pays for all expenses- there is no free lunch. The meth makers- have nothing, so how can you make them pay for the cleanup and other costs? Our county just passed an ordinance that makes the property owner responsible for 'their' cleanup cost. Typical government intervention- overkill on any environmental damage. The cleanup cost is likely to be way more than the year's rental on a property.

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

09-16-2004 05:57:32

Report to Moderator

Re: Seeing Pink - Fertilizer Question in reply to JMS/MN, 09-15-2004 22:49:11

If your county just passed that ordinance, then the farmers need to start a shotgun watch, then a loader tractor to cleanup the property.

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

DuaneWKKC

09-16-2004 08:00:03

Report to Moderator

Re: Seeing Pink - Fertilizer Question in reply to JT, 09-16-2004 05:57:32

Uh.. Im confused, cant leave something on my property without 'EXPECTING' it to get stolen? Then some nut wants to blame ME for it getting stolen. I tend to agree with JT. If found, shoot the bs_turds AND the first person to complain about it. Only takes half as long to clean up the problem that way.

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

[Options] [Printer Friendly] [Posting Help] [Return to Forum] [Log in to Reply]

TRACTOR PARTS	TRACTOR MANUALS

We sell tractor parts! We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today. [ About Us ]

Home | Forums

Copyright © 1997-2023 Yesterday's Tractor Co.
All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy

TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.

Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters

Website Accessibility Policy