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Any instrust in something like this? Picture

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Willy-N

11-14-2004 14:37:23

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I built this 3 Point Hitch a while back and have used it to move 6,000+ lb trailers full of hay with no problems at all. It is also set up to hook 2- 3/8" chains onto for pulling things. I was thinking of and designed a way to add a Removable Boom and Forks for it. This way it could be 3 Tools in One instead of have 3 different impliments you would slip a Boom on or slip 2-Forks into holders for lifting things. The lift rating would be over 1,000+ lbs on the Forks or Boom. If I built several of them do you think people would want them? I am figuring to be able to make them for around $250.00 apeice. Any input positive or negitive on this? Thanks, Mark H.

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Loren

11-15-2004 18:24:46

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Re: Any instrust in something like this? Picture in reply to Willy-N, 11-14-2004 14:37:23

I"m a little concerned that after reading your response to Bob about the lift caution that you maybe don"t understand exactly what he meant. Using a chain will do nothing to remedy the situation. Hope it works out for you and also hope I"m wrong in that you really have thought this problem out well.

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Willy-N

11-15-2004 18:46:55

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Re: Any instrust in something like this? Picture in reply to Loren, 11-15-2004 18:24:46

I see what he was talking about. There are tractors with light weight Drag Links. I have 2 3/8 inch chains to limint the lift on mine. It will only lift up about 20 inches befor it locks tight and a standard hitch is around 17-18 inches in height. If you look closely at my drag links they are realy big! So are my Lift arms and links Bars to the drag links. I do see a problem is some people doing stupid things with there tractor not understanding and having defective or underated arms for the loads they may try pull around or stop. A tractor is not realy intended for hay rides nor was it built for that purpose. I would not be able to control what someone not in the right mine would hook up to the back of one. Just having a hitch does not mean you can pull a 40 ft trailer loaded down with 60,000 lbs of weight. You could sell a chain to someone and they could use it to pull a tree out and hurt them selves would it be your fault? Same goes with any peice of equipment. I would not put these on EBay after reading what people try to do with there tractors on hills and such. I wonder how they even can drive a car. I think I better stick to making them for people I know instead. Mark H.

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RickL

11-15-2004 14:54:55

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Re: Any instrust in something like this? Picture in reply to Willy-N, 11-14-2004 14:37:23

Mark H;It looks alright but these are already available by several different makers now,so if you think you can compete go for it. Liability ins you will need more of. Been there done that

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Willy-N

11-15-2004 17:20:10

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Re: Any instrust in something like this? Picture in reply to RickL, 11-15-2004 14:54:55

Only know of one guy who makes something like I plan to do but his is big bucks to buy. Never figured to realy compete just make some custom ones for different people I know or meet. I am allway building something around here. My last project was this 1,200 gal Water Tender I contract out on Fires for the USFS. Built this from the rear bare frame up after removing 4 ft out of the middle and 6 ft off the rear of the frame. Made the Tank at home out of 3/16th Tank Grade steel. Mark H.

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RickL

11-15-2004 18:18:33

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Re: Any instrust in something like this? Picture in reply to Willy-N, 11-15-2004 17:20:10

thats okay then just do it and don't worry about what others think,stuffs always being built here too. No big deal. you might want to check your liability thou.

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Willy-N

11-15-2004 18:50:56

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Re: Any instrust in something like this? Picture in reply to RickL, 11-15-2004 18:18:33

I intend to look into that. Along with putting limint Lables on it to follow. Sorta like a Ladder you need to cover them with warnings from one end to the other. Mark H.

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RickL

11-16-2004 05:50:55

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Re: Any instrust in something like this? Picture in reply to Willy-N, 11-15-2004 18:50:56

Sounds like a plan; good luck,the building is the easy part marketing is where it gets tough. been there done that

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Tim...OK

11-15-2004 10:42:59

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Re: Any instrust in something like this? Picture in reply to Willy-N, 11-14-2004 14:37:23

Hey Mark, Another useful thing for these,I built one of those carry alls that you see on the back of SUV's with the expanded metal floor,throw it in that reciever and carry your tools or fence building stuff.. very handy indeed..

Tim

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Willy-N

11-15-2004 17:11:01

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Re: Any instrust in something like this? Picture in reply to Tim...OK , 11-15-2004 10:42:59

Seen them befor and they are handy! I use the forks and a Apple Bin box to carry junk out into the feilds for fencing. Mark H.

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JimW1950

11-15-2004 04:55:41

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Nice setup. in reply to Willy-N, 11-14-2004 14:37:23

Nice looking setup.
Here is a link to another nice setup: >Link

>Link

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Willy-N

11-15-2004 06:55:19

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Re: Nice setup. in reply to JimW1950, 11-15-2004 04:55:41

Thanks that is a better picture of the one I saw on another site. Mark H.

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Bob

11-14-2004 20:54:45

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Re: Any instrust in something like this? Picture in reply to Willy-N, 11-14-2004 14:37:23

One thing to watch out for, since there is no power down on most 3-point hitches is a situation where the trailer is overrunning the tractor.

There is nothing to keep the hitch DOWN in place. It can lift up until the angle of the hitch arms is such that they cannot resist the force of the trailer, and will lift and fold forward more or less on top of you.

Look at the angle of the arms in your picture. As a heavy trailer pushes forward, the angle is such that the hitch will try to lift, and the more it lifts, the greater the angle of the arms, and the more lifting force is generated by the forward force from the trailer.

A friend of mine had made a setup similar to yours, and buckled his 3-point while descending a coulee hill with a gravity wagon full of durum. Scared the HECK out of him!

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Willy-N

11-14-2004 21:30:55

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Re: Any instrust in something like this? Picture in reply to Bob, 11-14-2004 20:54:45

A chain for up lift was sujested to keep it from lifting I thought that was a good idea. One of the problems towing a load is called common sence. You need to relise the limints of your tractor and a load so heavy that it collapsed the Drag Links was way to heavy for the trator no matter what kind of hitch you had. I guess if you are unsure you need to weigh the load and figure what the book says you can handle. Hills are dangerous even with out a load behind you. People flip tractors just turning around. Some will flip them going up to steep of a hill with nothing behind it. I guess you can say if you are not carefull you will get hurt. I haven't had any problems with this setup pulling 6,000+ pounds but I would not go down or up a steep hill with it out of common sence. Mark H.

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paul

11-15-2004 07:25:13

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Re: Any instrust in something like this? Picture in reply to Willy-N, 11-14-2004 21:30:55

It's a problem of these hitches that I mentioned. But I don't want to sound too negative. ;) Because I use something similar to it all the time - mine is an old Ford N swinging drawbar with extending feature that dad slightly modified to fit the Ford 960. It bolts onto a 3pt drawbar & pins over the lower arms, does not use the top link. Very very handy, but moves in an arc, does not remain parrallel as yours does.

Put a 200 bu gravity box behind it, forget what you are doing on a hill, and it _will_ hurt me. Or at the least, hurt the tractor. Trust me on that!!! You have no idea of the 'slam factor' of that hitch rearing up with force behind it.....

But, this tractor is certainly designed to pull that size wagon.

You have to consider what people _will_ do with it, not what is common sense. Common sense has _no_ bearing in all of this.....

Unfortunately in my opinion, but my opinion will not get you anything.... ;)

I do like your design & plans for it, I just bought one of the cheaper deals offered on tractorbynet.com, but sounds like you are planning a price point that is worth looking at! :)

--->Paul

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Willy-N

11-15-2004 08:01:45

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Re: Any instrust in something like this? Picture in reply to paul, 11-15-2004 07:25:13

I just weighed my Recever hitch it weighs 47 lbs that is a fair amount of steel and it did not include the slip in coupler ball. Do you know what your unit weights? Thanks for the insite on modifications. People look at things differnt all the time. Ideas are great. Mark H.

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Leland

11-14-2004 19:39:41

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Re: Any instrust in something like this? Picture in reply to Willy-N, 11-14-2004 14:37:23

I have saw one sorta of like your in northern tool catlog,but your looks better built.

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Willy-N

11-14-2004 19:50:18

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Re: Any instrust in something like this? Picture in reply to Leland, 11-14-2004 19:39:41

After I fabercated all the parts the guy I had weld it told me it was way over kill big time. He said you would bust the tractor befor it broke. That was sorta what I had in mind. My rear plow blade hook up is not near as strong and it has had to be fixed a few times. I did not want it to bend at all. Mark H.

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Leland

11-14-2004 20:09:58

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Re: Any instrust in something like this? Picture in reply to Willy-N, 11-14-2004 19:50:18

over kill is a good thing.

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Frank Kovarick

11-14-2004 20:44:41

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Re: Any instrust in something like this? Picture in reply to Leland, 11-14-2004 20:09:58

Sure looks better than the cludged thing I use with chains from the upper link going to the swinging draw bar to haul a 5 ton rated dump trailer. I might hesitate at the $250 price? You could reduce that by letting the buyer supply the upper link, hitch ball and receiver and the other standard 3 pt hitch things like the pins at the lower links.

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paul

11-15-2004 07:12:43

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Re: Any instrust in something like this? Picture in reply to Frank Kovarick, 11-14-2004 20:44:41

What you are describing is already available for $80 or less delivered from that other web site I mentioned in the other thread at Implement Alley. You get the vertical reciever hitch, & supply the rest.

--->Paul

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Willy-N

11-14-2004 21:34:57

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Re: Any instrust in something like this? Picture in reply to Frank Kovarick, 11-14-2004 20:44:41

What you are looking at in the picture I would probley sell for around 100.00 the way it is. The 250.00 figure was for a set of forks and a boom attachment also included that would attach to the hitch assembley. This is not a completed unit just the hitch and nothing welded on yet for the forks or boom. Mark H.

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Mark - IN.

11-14-2004 18:40:32

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Re: Any instrust in something like this? Picture in reply to Willy-N, 11-14-2004 14:37:23

You know Willie, I think what you have there is quite impressive. Marketing it? You'll never get rich working for someone else, and in the old days the rich guys got rich by building and fabricating (inventing) stuff. Today they mostly get rich by inheriting, bilking people out of, or suing.

Personally, I think it's great. Things to consider: getting a patent before someone else does first, then sues you for your invention. Liability insurance stinks, but in our now litigeous society, it's either get it, or move your company off shore (Bahamas or something), so won't lose everything you worked for to some bum and his trial lawyer (another bum) scheming how to take you to the cleaners. Annnnd, "low-ball" your ratings - if know it will lift "x" amount of lbs. with a tractor rated at handling "x" amount of lbs, move your numbers (ratings) under that so you'll be covered when someone does something stupid, and then hires a lawyer (bum).

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Willy-N

11-14-2004 19:24:51

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Re: Any instrust in something like this? Picture in reply to Mark - IN., 11-14-2004 18:40:32

I allways figured someone would just make a small change and make them anyway. Never figured on making very many because of this. I built this around a year ago and I now see lots of ones sorta like it on eBay today. Liability is a problem. Not sure about what that would cost. Might have to open a buisness and incorperate it to cover myself. Under rating is a good idea that is why I built this one so strong jerk and drop loads are way higher then static loads on something. It is a shame when people can be dumb and sue you for being dumb! What is worse is people looking for dumb people to tell them how to sue and getting haft the money! Now they look on TV for them. Mark H.

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Bernie in MA

11-14-2004 17:25:33

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Re: Any instrust in something like this? Picture in reply to Willy-N, 11-14-2004 14:37:23

I guess I should have posted here instead of down below. Just curious on how you made the forks.

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paul

11-14-2004 16:55:50

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Re: Any instrust in something like this? Picture in reply to Willy-N, 11-14-2004 14:37:23

If you go to Implement Alley section & look at the thread

Fould unique Tractor Implements with Attachments ..[expand] - JohnDeerMan

You will see some a guy tries to advertise here evey couple of months. Yours sound a lot cheaper.

However, you are fooling yourself to skip liabilty insurance. there are way too many stupid people in this country, And they are the one's who get protected by our laws....

Check the web site I mention for some really cheap competition....

And, without provisions for a chain to the drawbar, these things are very dangerous with a 2-wheel trailer. Pople go for a hay ride, pop the clutch, trailer tips over backwards, and you _will_ be sued....

--->Paul

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Willy-N WOW

11-14-2004 17:22:28

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Re: Any instrust in something like this? Picture in reply to paul, 11-14-2004 16:55:50

Just went to that site and saw there stuff. Sorta what I had in mind but I was going to make them much simpler to set up. A lot cheaper too! Seems to me they could have done away with a lot of steel on the assories to add to the hitch and used the main unit more effectively instead. They had some nice stuff but I was tring to get away from all the extra weight and stuff that takes up a lot of space. Makes it easier to ship by UPS and not a freight truck. Mark H.

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Willy-N

11-14-2004 17:02:02

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Re: Any instrust in something like this? Picture in reply to paul, 11-14-2004 16:55:50

Another great idea useing the chain to the draw bar, never thought about doing that. Thanks! Understand this is about 1/3rd of what I am talking about making. The rest has to be built first to go one it in slip modular fittings using harden pins to lock them in. I will check into insureance but it seems you would have to keep it in effect for many, many years to cover them and if you only made say 10-15 of them that sure could raise the price!! Mark H.

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all ready

11-14-2004 15:38:01

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Re: Any instrust in something like this? Picture in reply to Willy-N, 11-14-2004 14:37:23

The ones I have seen on E-bay have another ball up high to pull goose necks too.

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Willy-N

11-14-2004 15:43:56

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Re: Any instrust in something like this? Picture in reply to all ready, 11-14-2004 15:38:01

Good Idea! Never thought about that idea. Work great for moving a Goose Neck Trailer around on the place. Mark H.

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midwest redneck

11-14-2004 15:36:57

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Re: Any instrust in something like this? Picture in reply to Willy-N, 11-14-2004 14:37:23

Very nice work. I have a neighbor that made a very impressive log splitter, all stick welded, 60 ton road towable. I would recommend that if you decide to make and sell these rear 3pt jobs that you get liability insurance.

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Willy-N

11-14-2004 15:46:35

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Re: Any instrust in something like this? Picture in reply to midwest redneck, 11-14-2004 15:36:57

That is a point. I have thought about that but the cost is way out of line. So the next best thing is to make it stronger than the tractor can lift to cover your self. Also put limints on the side of it. Mark H.

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I Bleed Green

11-14-2004 15:29:08

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Re: Any instrust in something like this? Picture in reply to Willy-N, 11-14-2004 14:37:23

A good way to tip a tractor over on top of yourself!!!

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Willy-N

11-14-2004 15:41:02

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Re: Any instrust in something like this? Picture in reply to I Bleed Green, 11-14-2004 15:29:08

How do you figure? The hitch can only drop down about 12-15 inches befor it his the ground then it would stop. You need to have enought sence to not over load the toung on the trailer to. It would take at least 2,000 lbs to lift the front end of that tractor up and about 1,500 lbs on a 8N tractor. The most you could like the tires is a foot or two then it would stop. This is allmost 2,000 lbs of Hay on a further back point then the hitch. If it tips the Bale will just stop it when it gets to the ground or I won't be able to lift it in the first place. Mark H.

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Dug

11-14-2004 15:28:05

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Re: Any instrust in something like this? Picture in reply to Willy-N, 11-14-2004 14:37:23

Mark,

With the combo hitch/boom/forks you may be on to something. Looks like very nice work on the fabrication.

Dug

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Willy-N

11-14-2004 15:50:28

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Re: Any instrust in something like this? Picture in reply to Dug, 11-14-2004 15:28:05

I have all 3 now but it is a hassle to get them off and on and they take up a lot of room. Being in sections they would be light to put on the back being able to slip in what ever you wanted to use. This way one main section the hitch and a few parts that can be added when needed. I know my fork lift set up weights around 400 lbs the forks alone are about 125 lbs each! Mark H.

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Bernie in MA

11-14-2004 17:03:28

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Re: Any instrust in something like this? Picture in reply to Willy-N, 11-14-2004 15:50:28

How do you make the forks? Factory ones are hard steel, I think.

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Willy-N

11-14-2004 17:31:15

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Re: Any instrust in something like this? Picture in reply to Bernie in MA, 11-14-2004 17:03:28

Comercial Forks are needed when you lift big bales up. They are harden steel also and cost big bucks more than $250.00 for the forks alone! That is the type I have on my Fork Lift set up. They are also very heavy. I need to have a design engineer(father in law)tell me what specs I would need for mild steel ones. I was intending to use rectangular box steel for strength or posibley heavy channel. I just need to figure the design weight and length of the forks. This fork lift would be for moving lighter stuff but still strong. Not moving large 2,000 lb bales of hay, more for clean up work and moving things like rocks, posts, cement bags an such around the farm or home. Mark H.

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Bernie in MA

11-14-2004 17:37:45

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Re: Any instrust in something like this? Picture in reply to Willy-N, 11-14-2004 17:31:15

It's a problem making forks strong enough and still thin enough to slide into a pallet. Where abouts are you? I've done some fabricating too.

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Willy-N Forks

11-14-2004 18:11:04

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Re: Any instrust in something like this? Picture in reply to Bernie in MA, 11-14-2004 17:37:45

Here are some forks from Northern Tool. Not to bad a deal. Mark H.

Forks

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Willy-N

11-14-2004 18:05:41

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Re: Any instrust in something like this? Picture in reply to Bernie in MA, 11-14-2004 17:37:45

I an located in Eastern Washington State. They sell forks you can buy that are harden, I scored and got mine for $125.00 for the set. Then I built my Lift to match them. I lost the site that has them for sale but could find it again with a Googal Search. Mark H.

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Leroy

11-14-2004 15:06:42

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Re: Any instrust in something like this? Picture in reply to Willy-N, 11-14-2004 14:37:23

with the ball setting that far back I would NOT atemt to use anything like that, now if it could be designed so the ball would be no farther back than the orignal cross drawbar it might work, to much piviot on rear axle to make front end light, the hitches I use on my 9N & 2N are equal to the end of the stub PTO or 10" behind

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Willy-N

11-14-2004 15:54:15

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Re: Any instrust in something like this? Picture in reply to Leroy, 11-14-2004 15:06:42

I have pulled many trailers with this one and heavey ones also with no problems at all. Biggest problem is stopping the load not the place the ball is. The weight it would take to lift the front is way over loading your tonge on the trailer. Most hitches on cars and trucks are designed for 500 lb tonge load with a 2" Ball Max. Mark H.

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LeJo

11-14-2004 14:48:12

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Re: Any instrust in something like this? Picture in reply to Willy-N, 11-14-2004 14:37:23

Have built one very simular to yours several years ago. I used a very heavy angle iron rather than the square tube. I use mine a lot. Have it on a Ford 641.

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Willy-N PICT

11-14-2004 14:55:42

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Re: Any instrust in something like this? Picture in reply to LeJo, 11-14-2004 14:48:12

I use mine to move this Trailer around full of hay to get it into the barn and out in the feilds easier. Seems to work fine and dose not lift up unless you put a real heavy load way on the back of the trailer and I mean Heavy! I guess on a single axle short trailer this would be more of a concern but then the hitch can't lift up that much that you would tip the trailer over. I know my forks hooked on at the same point will hold a 2,000 lb 4 X 5 X 8 Bale of hay and the front end gets a little light. Mark H.

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Ol Chief

11-14-2004 20:12:20

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Re: Any instrust in something like this? Picture in reply to Willy-N PICT, 11-14-2004 14:55:42

What is the weight of your attachment without the removable square extension and hitch ball.Also how can I reach you by phone. Thanks, John Cooney

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Willy-N Weight

11-15-2004 08:03:33

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Re: Any instrust in something like this? Picture in reply to Ol Chief , 11-14-2004 20:12:20

I just weighed it. It is 47 lbs as pictured with out the slip in recever ball. Mark H.

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Willy-N

11-14-2004 21:40:52

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Re: Any instrust in something like this? Picture in reply to Ol Chief , 11-14-2004 20:12:20

You can EMail me if you want to. I won't post my phone on the net. I have not weighed it but would guess about 30+ lbs. I can set it on a scale tomorrow. The box steel is 2" X 1/4" or 3/16" thick can't remember for sure right now. Mark H.

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dkasey

11-14-2004 22:30:03

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Re: Any instrust in something like this? Picture in reply to Willy-N, 11-14-2004 21:40:52

Hi Mark, I am interested in geting one at your earliest convience. The only change I would like would be to have a ball at the top to move my gooseneck horse trailer around. Regarding liability, can you have the buyer sign a waiver, or are there too many loop holes in that method to be valid? Would you contact me please. Thanks, Chuck

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Willy-N

11-15-2004 06:59:24

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Re: Any instrust in something like this? Picture in reply to dkasey, 11-14-2004 22:30:03

I also like the Goose Neck idea. I never had one but now see how handy it could be moving one around. You can EMail me for more information and we can talk. I sure can look into a waver form to sign that makes sence to me. Mark H.

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Steve in IN

11-15-2004 11:58:50

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Re: Any instrust in something like this? Picture in reply to Willy-N, 11-15-2004 06:59:24

I bought one similar off E-bay for about $60. Since mine is on a cat 0 3 point, I don"t worry to much about it rising up. I do move around a 1600 lb empty trailer with it, at low speed.

I have seen the adapters with the chain. One has the chain welded into the bottom of the upright. It then slips into the upright tube when not attached to the drawbar. Pretty slick.

Mine is made for a Cat 1, it would be nice if it was a little bit smaller. I just changed out the pins and do fine with it. I have another A frame adapter for the forks and for sleeve hitch attachments. The forks will lift at least 500 pounds. Its on a JD 318.

In short, I believe you already have a market...

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