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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

Best way to break in a rebiult motor

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Bill from Senec

11-27-2004 18:06:38




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Hi, I rebiult a 1948 farmall cub with a C60 motor. Whats the best way to break in a rebiult motor and how soon after should I change the oil. Thanks Bill




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johndeereman

11-28-2004 09:41:24




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 Re: Best way to break in a rebiult motor in reply to Bill from Seneca, IL, 11-27-2004 18:06:38  
as u can see there is more ways to do it than u can shake a stick at the way we always did it was to break it in the way you were gonna use it you dont want to break it in at a light load if you are gonna work it hard all its life after all you wouldnt expect a 400 lb man to win the olimpics in the 100 meter dash would you? if you break it in lazily thats the way its gonna work or it will blow up just like the 400 lb mans heart would. i worked at a jd garage we would putz it on a dino for a half hour at 2/3 throttle then change oil and take it home with orders not to take it easy on it after 30+ years they have never had an engine job come back i think all these guys ideas will work some take longer than others the key is just dont let it idle itself in

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willie j

11-28-2004 04:54:42




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 Re: Best way to break in a rebiult motor in reply to Bill from Seneca, IL, 11-27-2004 18:06:38  
Doesn't apply directly, but always amazed me. Used to drive for a medium size bus company, & this is the way machinist did his. Detroit 8v71 diesels. Tommy had a test stand for assembling his rebuilds. Used a 55 gallon barrell for radiator, pressurize the fuel & oil systems, so they would fire up on second turn. Run at fast idle,750 rpm, til water started to warm up, check for leaks & strange noises. Then grab throttle & run up to 2200 for 5 minutes. Look for flying loose parts. If it held together it was a good one, make final tune-up adjustments & install engine in bus. Put in service on the long run. Minneapolis to Laredo or ElPaso round trip with shut down for fuel, check oil & fresh driver. Maybe 10 different drivers on first trip. Change oil when it got back. His engines were always good for 750,000 miles before they started to get tired. Had one fail on the test stand early in his 30+ year carreer, no road failures.
Willie J, stage coach driver-retired

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Joe bloggs

11-29-2004 10:56:05




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 Re: Best way to break in a rebiult motor in reply to willie j, 11-28-2004 04:54:42  
I have a friend who breaks in motors just like that.he knows what to look and listen for when he is doing it.he built 4 motors for me and the all lasted along time the 1 in my truck was still going but tired when I sold the truck after the engine had done over 400,000 miles with out any problems at all. now here is the simple truth if it blows it blows the damage is done no mater if you are driving it hard or not you wont be able to save it. so just start it up and get going.
all the important stuff was when the engine was getting built thats the time to check and double check.

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RAB

11-27-2004 23:38:55




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 Re: Best way to break in a rebiult motor in reply to Bill from Seneca, IL, 11-27-2004 18:06:38  
When you say "rebuilt", what do you mean?
new pistons in a new bore?, reground crank?, new valve guides?, new/overhauled oil pump?, cleaned out oilways/galleries?, cam checked/reground?, timing gear overhauled?, water jacket checked and cleaned out? etc, etc, etc? Or just new bearings on an old crank and new piston rings?
If you have top end and not the bottom, you need to run in at reasonable throttle and fairly light load to keep oil flow up and bearing load down. Keep the engine at proper operating temperature. Check security and tolerances of anything that can loosen or change clearance.
If it has bypass oil filtration, change the oil after just a few hours - cleaned oilways or not.
Top-end lubricant is a good idea, but don"t overdo it. As suggested, use varying speeds and loads without excess of either. A final fairly heavy work-out to completely bed in the rings would not go amiss before changing to a modern super lubricant.
Those old manuals were right in saying the running in period set the scene for the life of the engine, but remember that when the tractor was new, the whole tractor was being run in, not just the engine and the manufacture did not want unnecessary warranty claims or early failure after the warranty period - not good for sales!
RAB

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NC Wayne

11-27-2004 22:01:59




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 Re: Best way to break in a rebiult motor in reply to Bill from Seneca, IL, 11-27-2004 18:06:38  
I've built engines ranging from the big 1000+ CuIn Murphy diesels, to meduim sized 8V-92 Detroits,and CATs, to the smaller Yanmar and Perkins diesels, to small block Chevys and on down to single cylinder B&S lawnmower engines and have never had one come back. Be it with the rings not seated, etc from not being broke in properly or anything else for that matter. You can look in the service manuals, etc and each mfg has their own properly engineered, long, drawn out break in procedure, but from a field mechanics point of view it's all a bunch of nonsense. It may sound and work good in a controlled/shop environment, but not in the real world. The main thing I tell every customer, no matter what size engine they have, is not to let it idle under no load, that'll glaze the cylinder walls right off and then the rings will never seat. If you want to break it in hook up the impliment that gives it the biggest load, "pull 'er ears back and put 'er to work". A story that Dad always tells is when he worked at the A/C dealership back in the 70's they rebuilt the engine in a mans dozer. He then idled it around at half throttle when he got it back to the job, after being told not to. He then came back in within two weeks claiming warranty because it smoked and slobbered oil. Even though they shouldn't have done it because the guy didn't follow the break in instructions they bit the bullet and redid it for him. They honed the liners, reringed it, and then broke it in before it left. The blade was put into a huge dirt bank, the throttle was pulled back, and it set there in low gear and spinning the tracks and digging holes for the next 15 or 20 minutes. Dad said it left that time not smoking or slobbering oil and never came back. As for the oil and change interval I've always used regular 15W-40 Rotella and I tell the customer to try to catch it at about 40 hours and then use their standard change interval after that. In reality though as long as you have a good qualty filter it's not really that imperative that you change the oil so quick as long as you do the filter. Anything that gets into the engine, metal or otherwise, be it from break in or normal running is gonna get filtered out anyway so the oil isn't gonna be any cleaner if you put in new stuff than if you leave what's already in there in it and simply change the filter. The main thing is to not let the filter stop up and go into bypass and contaminate the system by not filtering it. I know there are those out there that may disagree with this, because discussions of oil types, change intervals, etc always bring out everybodies own experiences and opinions. The main thing is you can never argue with success, and if ten different people have success with ten different things then they must all be right to some degree or another. Just my .02

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farmweld

11-28-2004 17:18:24




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 by a/c do you mean allis chalmers? in reply to NC Wayne, 11-27-2004 22:01:59  
if you do, then can you post a phone number...email address, etc. that i can contact him, if he would be willing to provide info for my A/C restoration project. any info would be helpful. thanx
farmweld



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NC Wayne

11-28-2004 19:17:47




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 Re: by a/c do you mean allis chalmers? in reply to farmweld, 11-28-2004 17:18:24  
Hey Farmweld, in answer to your question, Dad used to work for EF Craven Co, who was the Allis Chalmers, eventually Fiat-Allis, and Busyrus-Erie dealer here in Charlotte. My email is Nota55Nomad@AOL.com Give me a holler and I'll be glad to give you our number, or pass your's along to Dad, whichever you'd preffer. Working on all this old equipment like we do talking to other guys interested in it and helping out is something we're always glad to do, if for no other reason than we never know what we might learn at the same time. That's one thing about this old stuff, no matter how much you know there is always room to learn more....and that's half the fun of working on it....

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wdTom

11-27-2004 19:23:15




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 Re: Best way to break in a rebiult motor in reply to Bill from Seneca, IL, 11-27-2004 18:06:38  
While this method is a little more difficult with tractor engines than a truck or car it makes sense. That is once it is running and you are sure everything is ok take it out on the road and accelerate fairly hard up to about 60 mph then just back off and let it run down to about 10 or 15 mph, do this 10 or 15 times and it will be OK to use normally, but with varing load and speed for a few more hours. The loading while accelerating wears things in and the backing off sucks a little oil up to lube and cool off the hot or high spots in the cylinders and rings. I think the main thing is to vary the speed and not to lug or over load a new (rebuilt) engine. I like to change the oil after the first 1/2 or 1 hour of running, inclucing the filter. All the metal from the rough honeing of the cylinder walls will be rubbed off and be in the oil.

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F-I-T

11-27-2004 18:47:44




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 Re: Best way to break in a rebiult motor in reply to Bill from Seneca, IL, 11-27-2004 18:06:38  
I have a C60 on the engine stand for my '48 waiting to install new .040" pistons, rods, mains and reground crank in the rebored block.

My plan is do what I have done on my last three majors, and that was to use the special break-in oil that John Deere sells. It's the same stuff they fill new engines with, and you keep it in for 100 hours and then drain and go to your regular oil. I have had great success with quick break-ins using it, and no oil problems at all. This was on two gasers and a diesl 70 JD. All were re-bores, so the engine blocks were like new.

I'm sure other companies sell a similar product, but JD carries it. It might not be on the rack, but they'll have it in the back.

I agree that you don't want to let it set at one speed. I like to start them , run at an elevated idle so they are oiling well, then check for anything major wrong, then put a card board in front of the radiator if necessary to get the temp up to normal, then run them at varying speeds for the first two hours, then take them out for a workout on a light load, and increase the load each hour or two, until I get them humming right along. I've had great success doing this.

Wish I had a dyno, though!.

Frank

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RN

11-27-2004 18:41:22




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 Re: Best way to break in a rebiult motor in reply to Bill from Seneca, IL, 11-27-2004 18:06:38  
Breakin rebuilt? Lots of ways, here is opinion for your Cub this time of year- 10W valvoline racing oil in engine, 1 cup 30w non detergent low ash oil to 5 gallons gas for start. 1st 2/5 hours running don't get over 2/3 throttle. vary speed up/down while under light load- wagon pulling or something like light cultivating garden. Next 5 hours can go to full trottle medium load. Garden plow/cultivate/mow in low gear short rows - vary engine speed end rows and turns. Drain oil at about 10 Hours, switch to 10w30 weight, change filter, reduce oil in gas to 1 cup to 10 gallons. Go next 25 hours up to near full throttle and medium loads while varying engine speed occasionaly- slow to idle on corners, end rows, whatever/whenever you feel like it. Drain oil at 20-25 hours and run 10w30 for winter, 15/40 or straight 30 for summer. Try to change oil at least twice a year or 100 hours afterwards, no more oil in gas needed. Rings should seat in 1st 5-10 hours, valves should work lap themselves to seats and guides and bearings fit themselves to journals at same 5-10 hours. Second 5 hours under some load should have engine at full operation temp. At 1st oil change 10 hours, check head bolt torque/retorque to specs, check intake/exhaust bolts also, check valve lash clearance. RN.

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JD790

11-27-2004 19:14:10




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 Re: Best way to break in a rebiult motor in reply to RN, 11-27-2004 18:41:22  
RN!
Are you Serious?


Quoting..... "There are lots of ways"..... ..

"Bearings fit themselves to journals at same 5-10 hours"

What happens if those bearings don't fit themselves in 1 hour or 2 minutes???



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RN

11-27-2004 20:05:44




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 Re: Best way to break in a rebiult motor in reply to JD790, 11-27-2004 19:14:10  
Lots of ways- one way is to Lubriplate bearings, journals, piston pins. Start engine with 10 wieght and tuneup checks about an hour. Drain oil, replace with 40 or 50 weight, warm up about 5-10 minutes, then go full throttle 50 to 100 miles in circle or several runs 1/4 mile and back. If engine holds together you might make enough money to pay for rebuild, side bets pay for hauling, supper and beer. Little trophies make good paperweights. Bearing/journal clearence tends to be a bit toward maximum instead of minimum. RN.

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RN

11-27-2004 19:51:05




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 Re: Best way to break in a rebiult motor in reply to JD790, 11-27-2004 19:14:10  
Bearing to journal fit on not machined cranks- Old machinist I worked with did many bearing jobs on lightly worn cranks- concern was for faint grooves and slight egg shapes or pits on crank journals. Bearings were selected +.003 to .005 undersize soft coats Clevites or special size from TRW catalog. Clearance installed was close to minimal factory specifications. Bearing top coat usually matched to journal in few hours- if crankbearing wore offside could note oil pressure low. This was very rare but thrust bearings did have a couple problems- Crank journal thrustface wear grooved or a bit excess. Watch oil pressure, listen for rod knocks. If crank was worn more than undersize +std or more than .003 variance over factory spec after measuring 8 points on crank journal or rolling dial indicator gauge around journal- crank grinding time to -.010. Ford truck 351s, 302s can wear rod and mains under load, Ford factory has service bearings undersize from .002 to .006. Thought in service bay was partial external balanced cranks vibrated a bit and had greater wear than GM cranks. RN.

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JD790

11-27-2004 21:27:26




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 Re: Best way to break in a rebiult motor in reply to RN, 11-27-2004 19:51:05  
OH!



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old

11-27-2004 18:27:44




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 Re: Best way to break in a rebiult motor in reply to Bill from Seneca, IL, 11-27-2004 18:06:38  
To brake it in you should run it as if it is old other then never leave it at the same RPM for more the 30 minutes or so, varie it a lot till it has about 100 hours on it then run it like normal



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Rod M1

11-27-2004 18:23:26




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 Re: Best way to break in a rebiult motor in reply to Bill from Seneca, IL, 11-27-2004 18:06:38  
I will change to oil and filter after the first 5 minutes 1hour and 10hour. I do light bush hogging for about the first 2 hours then use here like normal at the same time being careful not to hit something or lug her down hard.



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