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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

Fluid in tires

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Crem

01-01-2005 16:04:29




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I have a 1970 Massey Ferguson 165 diesel tractor that I have acquired and will use it for hobby use on somewhat hilly terrain. I will use it for mowing and box blade work. It has 18.4 X 26" tires and I found out that one tire is filled about 1/3 with fluid and the other side is empty. I figure that there is about 200 lbs of fluid in there. My question is if I would fill the other one to about 1/3 or even put both at 1/2 full, would I have better stability on the hillsides with the fluid in the tires. Is there a problem with running at a lower fill or is this just a less weight issue. I know about the calcium chloride / rim problems as I grew up using a TO-20 Ferguson with all four tires filled, and yes after fifty years the rims were shot and I had to replace them.

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Crem

01-02-2005 17:07:36




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 Re: Fluid in tires in reply to Crem, 01-01-2005 16:04:29  
Thanks to everyone for responding to my question. There was a lot of good input. At this time I am inclined to go without fluid and see how it works out for my application. If I feel that I need more weight I can either try weights or add fluid.



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Leland

01-02-2005 18:04:12




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 Re: Fluid in tires in reply to Crem, 01-02-2005 17:07:36  
Crem this 165 is not as heavy as you belive,when the one I used had no fluid it would spin out pulling 40 bales of hay up a hill. And this box blade will stop you in your tracks and I would not worry about stopping the multi power makes a great engine brake, but it's your tractor you can do as you please. massey made this little tractor tough and I never broke a thing on it even pulling a 14 ft heavy disk seeding water ways.

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Crem

01-02-2005 19:27:57




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 Re: Fluid in tires in reply to Leland, 01-02-2005 18:04:12  
I think that the MF165 weighs about 5000 lbs. I am wondering about the 18.4 tires and if they would get good traction. They look very wide for the tractor. They are not in the best shape and I was considering going to 16X 26 tires. Would this give me better traction?



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Leland

01-02-2005 19:42:48




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 Re: Fluid in tires in reply to Crem, 01-02-2005 19:27:57  
this one had 18.4s and I never had any real problems pulling with them and you may lose ground clearance with smaller tires,but don't knock those old tires they may still have a lot of life in them with the price and labor costs with farm tires run them until they almost pop then drive her to tire shop this will save you enough in service call fees to put new rubber on front also.



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paul (ont)

01-02-2005 10:07:27




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 Re: Fluid in tires in reply to Crem, 01-01-2005 16:04:29  
Just a little advice - It's a whole lot better to have the tires slip rather than the differential or the gearbox. If I were you I would take all of the liquid weight out of the tires, run air in them, and if you need extra weight, try some removable cast weights- that way you can put them on for snowplowing in the winter, and take them off in the summer for mowing.

Paul



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Leroy

01-02-2005 05:00:13




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 Re: Fluid in tires in reply to Crem, 01-01-2005 16:04:29  
It would be impossible to get the fill weight above center of gravity so that is a moot point, and you want the tires geared to the ground as completely because if there is that slip that some want then there is also that slip when you are going downhill and putting the brakes on, the wheels stopped and you are sliding on down into that fence, building, creek or other object, load both to valve level turned up to top and you may also need aditional cast weight to ancre tthe tire to the ground on those hills, weight is safty, no weight is dangerous! Valve level is normal and to get above that up to 100% takes special tools with some tires having been filled 100% but for ground shock you need some air in the tire to absorbe the shock

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Jerry/Mt

01-02-2005 17:22:08




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 Re: Fluid in tires in reply to Leroy, 01-02-2005 05:00:13  
As a practical matter, how do you know where the center of gravity (CG) for a tractor is? It will vary with the tractor design. You may be right that you can never get the tire fluid level above it the but you have to know something about the tire size and the CG location to make that claim. I'm not claiming to have that information but just making some sketches it seems plausible to me that it's possible to occur. Just my opinion.

Regarding gearing to the ground, I know that John Deere recommends you have a bit of slip in the tires to protect the drivetrain and ALL manufacturer's that I know of recommend against overballasting their tractors, most likely for the same reason.

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buickanddeere

01-02-2005 10:11:10




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 Re: Fluid in tires in reply to Leroy, 01-02-2005 05:00:13  
I just can't get comfortable with getting the tractor geared to the ground with that box blade on. Sometging mechanical is going to give $ooner or later. Maybe OK on a wet grassy slope but even better to stay parked until the turf is dry. This is a situation made for 4x4 and evrything else is a compromise of productivity and safety.



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buickanddeere

01-01-2005 21:25:44




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 Re: Fluid in tires in reply to Crem, 01-01-2005 16:04:29  
Kind of a tough call there. Usually mowing wants a light weight tractor with R-3 tread tires to limit tracking on lawns. As for heavy draft load implements where crop lossses due to soil compaction isn't an issue. Then adding weight until will increase "pull". Only drawback is that on hills it takes extra HP to haul the tractor's overly heavy fanny up hill. Makes the tractor keener to move on the downhill side. And as previously stated about being geared to the ground. Something on the three point hitch, the blade on in the tractor's drive train. Is going to give if the tires can't spin.

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paul

01-01-2005 18:38:08




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 Re: Fluid in tires in reply to Crem, 01-01-2005 16:04:29  
I would either want them both empty, or both filled to 75% (which is considered filled, you need about 25% air pocket in a tire at least).

Myself, I would want both tires 75% with CC. running them less than that will let them slosh & adds rolling friction as the fluid tries to run up the tire in the skinny part of the tube. They are actually more stable if they are 'full' to 75%. Any fluid circulating with tire rotation easily falls across & down the ther side of the tube, not churning within each side of the tube.

--->Paul

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Jerry/MT

01-01-2005 18:28:06




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 Re: Fluid in tires in reply to Crem, 01-01-2005 16:04:29  
the tires should be filled to a weight that still alows some "tire slip" so the tractor is not "geared to the ground". "Geared to the ground" is a condition where, in dry soil, a clear print of the tire is left behind in the wheel tracks. here should be a bit of slip evident n the tracks under these conditions,i.e. the track should be a little "indistinct". I saw pictures of the conditions I'm describing in a John Deere training manual.
Having said this, for the use that you are putting on the tractor, I would just even the tire fill in the empty tire to that of the tire tht is filled. No need to put anymore strain on the drive line than is necessary. Adding more fluid will raise the center of gravity for the tractor which is destabilizing. My two cents.

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Jerry/MT

01-01-2005 19:15:41




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 Re: Fluid in tires in reply to Jerry/MT, 01-01-2005 18:28:06  
I should have said adding fluid above the level of the center of gravity would tend to be destabilizing from lateral stability considerations.



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Leland

01-01-2005 16:09:24




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 Re: Fluid in tires in reply to Crem, 01-01-2005 16:04:29  
Only problem is if you need to make a hi speed stop,and yes filling both tires UP to max will inprove this tractors performance greatly. worked on a farm that owned one and after driving one what seemed a million miles the more a 165 weighs the better they work.



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