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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

LP fuled tractors

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jra

02-26-2005 22:31:25




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In my part of the country most of the tractors are fueled with diesel and gasoline. I see that in some places there are a lot of tractors fueled with LP gas. I was wondering why? Anyone know.




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Mark - IN.

02-27-2005 11:04:54




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 Re: LP fuled tractors in reply to jra, 02-26-2005 22:31:25  
Know nothing about LP tractors for the most part, except had a neighbor that had one when I was young. He went into the barn one time and obviously did the wrong thing. Blew the wood right off the barn and him with it. His wife found one of his fingers when was mowing the lawn days, weeks, or whatever later. No joke. He sure did something he wasn"t supposed to have.

Mark



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txblu

02-28-2005 04:31:45




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 Re: LP fuled tractors in reply to Mark - IN., 02-27-2005 11:04:54  
True true. Always worried about that as I do now, using LP for home heating.

Mark



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tanklord

02-27-2005 07:00:34




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 Re: LP fuled tractors in reply to jra, 02-26-2005 22:31:25  
My grandfather had a 1958 Ford 641 converted to LPG in 1963. I cannot ever remember him changing the oil, or the spark plugs in all the years he worked his dairy with it. I did change these items more frequently once I took control of the tractor. A tank of fuel would last 1-2 days during haying season, and a lot longer in the off season. Can't say I noticed a difference in the temperature at which it ran- temp gauge was broken!

Butan and Propane are all derivatives of natural gas, just different molecular weights- pleaswe don't ask me for specifics. LOL

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greenbeanman in Kansas

02-27-2005 06:50:01




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 Re: LP fuled tractors in reply to jra, 02-26-2005 22:31:25  
LPG, i.e. propane is a by-product so it USED to be cheap. My dad bought a new Minneapolis Moline G705 in the mid 1960s. We have put many a gallon through it that cost only 3¢ and 4¢. I've never yet heard of any diesel selling for that low of a price. The majority of fuel we purchased around 10¢.

The last LPG I purchased was 92¢. What is the current price of farm diesel?

Longevity of the engines as others pointed out is another factor when considering a tractor purchase. LPG engine oil will be cleaner after 100 hours of use than a diesel engine will show after 10 hours. You still change it however when it is time.

Many farmers are afraid to tackle injectors and pumps and must hire work done on them. Tune-ups of points, plugs, rotor, condenser, cap, and wires are done more often, but farmer done is still cheaper than what you lay out for a pro on the other.

That old MM G705 had a slow turning, long stroke engine with a large diamer exhaust. Man was that a sweet sounding engine at idle. I think you could count each cylinder firing. There is nothing like it.

By the time diesel and LPG got so close in price in the 1970s I was farming on my own. I purchased a Case 1070 diesel. There can be no doubt that the 108 hp diesel could work circles around the 101 hp LPG tractor, and do so more cheaply per acre.

For winter duty an LPG tractor will typically start easier than a high compression diesel, and you don't need to worry about fuel turning into a gel. HOWEVER, for raw field horsepower---let me have a diesel.

Oh yeah, for smell of fuels--well I'd rather smell LPG any day. I find diesel far more offensive even though I doubt the majority would.

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txblu

02-28-2005 04:29:10




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 Re: LP fuled tractors in reply to greenbeanman in Kansas, 02-27-2005 06:50:01  
When I sold my LP that was one of the things I emphasized.....clean burning. Told the buyer diesels were pigs and meant it. So now (having no gas or LPs, all I do is sit behind the stack of a tuggin slobbering pig. LOL. More LOL.

Mark



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greenbeanman in Kansas

02-28-2005 06:43:28




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 Re: LP fuled tractors in reply to txblu, 02-28-2005 04:29:10  
I never heard diesels called that, but it does seems to be a good call. lol



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txblu

02-27-2005 05:47:44




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 Re: LP fuled tractors in reply to jra, 02-26-2005 22:31:25  
Had a neighbor who used to farm West Texas around Abilene; had several sections. Said that at one time the local dealers were really pushing LP. So he bought all LP's.

Then Diesel became popular and the LP's faded from sight. Didn't say why. Next thing he knew the local dealer was out pushing diesel. He said what's wrong with the LP's you sold me? Soon found out..... went to all diesel.

I know Texas used to "mine" the Permean Basin (also in W. Tx.) which was a hugh, oil field. Gas and gas wells were part of that so there was an abundant supply of petroleum and N. Gas out there.

For years Texas had no sales or income taxes as the state was essentially run on oil revenues.

Don't remember which Propane comes from but anyway there was lots and it was cheap. Also had a lot of Butane then. Similar to Propane but I think it had problems in the winter time. I know homes were heated with it; not sure about tractors. Too young at the time and never followed up on it.


Having recently had both personally, a JD 4020LP and currently a 4010D, The only thing I can say about the LP is what was said, and that is clean burning and engines, and oil, last a long time.

Otherwise (for me) fueling was a chore (at both temp extremes) and seemed wasteful venting gas to get liquid into the tank, getting fuel to the field was a chore (used a 300 gal, pull behind the p/u, nurse tank....no springs so about 20 mph was it), engines ran a lot hotter (ok in winter, but hot in the summer....for you and the radiator), got poor fuel/work ratio (both have 40 gallon tank; LP fueled 2x per day, diesel 2 days per fillup) using the same plow on the same farm doing the same job.

On my place today: 6 D, 0 Gas, 0 LP.

My 2c.

Mark

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buickanddeere

02-28-2005 22:25:29




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 Re: LP fuled tractors in reply to txblu, 02-27-2005 05:47:44  
The venting of vapour from the tank getting filled certainly looks nasty. I'm not real comfortable with the energy contained in those cloud areas between LEL & UEL. Have to wonder about people who park leaking LP equiment or vent LP from equipment in a poorly ventilated area. I still can't find some of my refernce material but doesn't a gallon of liquid LP make 200-300 gallons of vapour? Venting vapour from the tank will boil the liquid LP inside, the vessel temperature will drop and therefore the tank pressure will drop. The chilling would have to be about as significant as the direct mechnical venting? I would wager that only about 1-4% of the LP gets vented during un-pumped filling?

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JoeMN

02-27-2005 07:57:02




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 Re: LP fuled tractors in reply to txblu, 02-27-2005 05:47:44  
Today's chemistry lesson from google:

Methane, (C H4 )° Sextane, (C6 H14)°

Ethane, (C2H6 )° Septane, (C7 H16)°

Propane, (C3H8 )° Octane, (C8 H18)°

Quartane, (C4H10)° Nonane, (C9 H20)°

Quintane, (C5H12)° Decane, (C10H22)°



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txblu

02-28-2005 04:19:20




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 Re: LP fuled tractors in reply to JoeMN, 02-27-2005 07:57:02  
Ok Joe,

I remember my subscripts and all from my HS chemistry classes (vaguely....remember H2O and H2SO4), but other than Propane, what are you telling us? And how does that relate to tractor fuel?

Thanks,

Mark



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greenbeanman in Kansas

02-27-2005 09:24:20




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 Re: LP fuled tractors in reply to JoeMN, 02-27-2005 07:57:02  
From the chart I would surmise that Qua=4, Qui=5, Sex=6, Sep=7, Oct=8, Non=9, and Dec=10.

So how did propane wind up being called propane instead of tritane? Hm?



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JoeMN

02-27-2005 11:09:08




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 Re: LP fuled tractors in reply to greenbeanman in Kansas, 02-27-2005 09:24:20  
Propane drew its name from the Greek root word proto(first). Butane replaced the name quartane,drawing from the Latin butyrum.
Scientists in the 1800's apparently wanted to personalize things a little bit.
"In 1866 Hofmann suggested that the first four alkanes be called methane, ethane, propane, quartane. By the mid-1870s Butane, from butyl, from Chevreul's 1826 butyric, took over from quartane and Hofmann's other Latin numerical prefixes had been replaced by Greek ones, except that the Latin non for nine was never replaced "

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txblu

02-28-2005 04:20:54




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 Re: LP fuled tractors in reply to JoeMN, 02-27-2005 11:09:08  
Geezzzzz zzzzz zzzzz. You guys are over my head.

Mark



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Jeff Oliver

02-26-2005 22:37:58




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 Re: LP fuled tractors in reply to jra, 02-26-2005 22:31:25  
Most of the time it was because long ago LP was alot cheaper than gas or diesel. Lp tractors use more fuel per hour but it was cheap enough that it was still cheaper that way. Now is a different story. I have 2 Oliver 1800's, one diesel and one LPG. It's alot cheaper to run the diesel now than the LP. Plus LP runs cleaner than gas and the motors usually lasted longer and in some cases had a little more HP.

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brtx

02-27-2005 01:25:38




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 Re: LP fuled tractors in reply to Jeff Oliver, 02-26-2005 22:37:58  
i have a 460 farmall on lp. it still carries 50 psi oil pressure. here in the texas panhandle lp gas went up to $1.40 a gal.depends on where you live as to the price of lp.



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Jeff Oliver

02-27-2005 07:05:20




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 Re: LP fuled tractors in reply to brtx, 02-27-2005 01:25:38  
true, last summer I could shop around and uy LP for about $1 a gallon when diesel was about $1.30. it equalled out as the LP used about a third as much fuel but if I was away from home and needed fuel I can run down to the gas station and get diesel. Plus the only company I could get LP from that cheap was not the most reliable one to bring it out when I needed it. Of course if I have a 500-1000 gallon tank they might be a little better but i guess for less than a 100 gallons it didn't make sense to drive out. If I lived where it was really cold for a good part of the winter I think I would definatly have a LP ractor if I used it then. We have the 1800 and a JD 720 LP and they never balk at starting when it is cold.

Of course here in West Tn. really cold is like average of 20F for maybe a week at a time.

Haha if the price of diesel keeps going up and LP stays down some w might have to look at buying that 4020LP dad has been looking at and just getting a bigger nurse tank this year while cutting hay! LOL!!!!

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txblu

02-28-2005 04:25:16




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 Re: LP fuled tractors in reply to Jeff Oliver, 02-27-2005 07:05:20  
My LP fuel (for the house) is the same price as local farm diesel. Having personal experiences with diesel getting more pull per BTU, I would not bring propane back on the place. Plus I agree with the convenience of running to town to get some more fuel.

Grant you my LP didn't know that it was cold when it was time to start. Now 100 degree summer days was a different story.

Mark



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