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O.T. Property Tax Accessment

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Frank (N.Mi.)

03-08-2005 16:48:11

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Well, since a whole bunch of us are "lucky" enough to pay property taxes, I thought I'd post my latest tax acessment story.

I live in Michigan. In 1995 the rate that our property taxes could increase was limited by the Headlee Amendment. We swapped this for an increase in the State Sales Tax. Property taxes are now calculated based on something called the "taxable value" of your property plus an annual multiplier based on rate of inflation. I think the "taxable value" of property is based on the 1995 accessment. In any case it is now far lower then the State Equalized Value of my property. I received in the mail today our 2005 accessment notice. Interestingly enough, our 2005 state equalized value is lower then the 2004 s.e.v. by over four figures! Despite this, our taxable value for 2005 has increased by several hundred dollars! Anyone else have this pleasant experience?

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John in Ct

03-09-2005 15:22:22

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Re: O.T. Property Tax Accessment in reply to Frank (N.Mi.), 03-08-2005 16:48:11

Because I am causing the town I live in some grief (I am stopping some retail development), when we got revaluated a few years ago, I got a special a$$e$$ment. I appealed to the Board of Assessment Appeals, they rubber stamped what the assessor said. I went to the Superior Court and WON!!!!! The next year, the assessor went after me again. He wasn't increassing my assement, just a reallication from one building to another. All in all, the assessor tried to get me 3 times, I went to Superior Court 3 times and WON!!!!! To me, it looks like The judge now has a "what the heck kind of crap are you trying to pull now look" when he sees what the assessor in doing to me. The only problem, I spent more on court, appraisers and lawyers than I saved in taxes.

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Rick Kr

03-09-2005 14:03:37

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Re: O.T. Property Tax Accessment in reply to Frank (N.Mi.), 03-08-2005 16:48:11

Frank,
Welcome to Michigan. The township is trying to reassess me to residential (R400) from Ag (R100). They say it is because I only have 33 acres. Not really what "they" consider a farm. I think it is because they can nail me for about 35% more in taxes. So I am fighting it too. So far I have found that if I keep going up there and bugging the #$%@ out of them, they get softer and softer each time. I have almost made it back to where I want to be but it is costing me a lot of time.
They want to devalue the land, but not change it back to R100. Oh well, sorry for the rant.

Just keep fighting.

Rick

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Bill from MA

03-09-2005 13:31:05

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Re: O.T. Property Tax Accessment in reply to Frank (N.Mi.), 03-08-2005 16:48:11

EDGARTOWN, MA

SNIP...
''It is a revolution," said David Plumb, a retired chemical company executive from St. Louis whose family's property valuation jumped from $5.4 million to $15.8 million this year and its tax bill from $16,000 to $48,000. ''We mean business. The people who have banded together, with what we hope are capable counsel, are serious. We feel we are being very badly maltreated."
SNIP...

The full story is in the Boston Globe,

http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2005/03/09/tax_revaluation_lights_a_fuse_in_island_enclave/

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Dave in Mo

03-09-2005 09:53:03

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Re: O.T. Property Tax Accessment in reply to Frank (N.Mi.), 03-08-2005 16:48:11

I'm thinking of being delinquent on my taxes this next year. It's always a stuggle to come up with $1000's right around Christmas. Some people pay their taxes late (in January) with a small penalty and then pay that same year in December and get to deduct ALL the taxes in one year on their 1040 Form. The tax refund on the $1000's more than offsets the penalty. My 2 cents.

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cockshuttguy

03-09-2005 07:45:54

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Re: O.T. Property Tax Accessment in reply to Frank (N.Mi.), 03-08-2005 16:48:11

Yep, my MI assessment looks just the same. Those that have the privilage in this ole USA of owning land have the privilage of paying to keep the machinery running all around it. Ever wonder why our state is so screwed up financially. Well, the facts are you and I and a lot of other folks in the state got 10.1 billion dollars returned to us during the Engler years in tax cuts. Yep, I have the figures from the Dept. of Treasury. I'm still trying to figure out what I did with the money if and when I did get it. I'd say we been shafted and the money has to come from someone. We landowners might be the ones to pick up some of the tab with the interest we got on that tax cut. Looks a lot like 3 half walnut shells and 2 peas. You guess!!! I can't even begin to guess which one has the peas. I know it is not here.
Good Luck, and enjoy the privilages.

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Dave From MN

03-09-2005 06:07:50

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Re: O.T. Property Tax Accessment in reply to Frank (N.Mi.), 03-08-2005 16:48:11

In central MNThis year the assesor doubled are assesed value, we just purchased. Apparently he did not previously "notice" any of the improvments. Showed up 1 day after completing a new pole shed. And apparently my oaks are filled with gold. Gonna apply for green acres program and see if it comes down. I swear the county should do a up to date tax assesment on farm purchases so buyer knows that the tax will be no where close to what the sellers are paying

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Bob - MI

03-09-2005 05:39:37

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Re: O.T. Property Tax Accessment in reply to Frank (N.Mi.), 03-08-2005 16:48:11

As a fellow resident, my condolences. I got my assessment yesterday and it went up again too. I can"t rasie too much of a stinkl however because it"s still below what I bought the property for 5 years ago.

In Spring Lake about 15 years ago before they put the cap on the index, we were getting hammered with 25~50% increases yearly. I had a next door neighbor that got a 1300% hit one year because the assessor said he thought all the houses in our neighborhood hadn"t been properly assessed.

He ended up having to go to the state board and got noplace. It"s all a sham. I even got a certified appraisal one year and they literally threw the appraisal back at me and told me they wouldn"t consider it.

All I can say is best of luck with this.

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Mike M

03-09-2005 04:55:43

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Re: O.T. Property Tax Accessment in reply to Frank (N.Mi.), 03-08-2005 16:48:11

Sure doesn't make any sense. And if you would sell it off and build a big mega shopping center they would get a tax abatement and not pay any.

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MSM

03-09-2005 03:41:19

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Re: O.T. Property Tax Accessment in reply to Frank (N.Mi.), 03-08-2005 16:48:11

My father bought our farm in Md. in 1939.Taxes were $107/year.Last year my taxes on it were $12,340.Thats with the Agricultural zoning.Can't wait for this years bill to get here.Plus they doubled the tag renewal fees,a septic tank "fee",and all the other taxes and fees. It costs me on average almost $2000 month in fees and taxes for the priveledge of living in Maryland.

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leland

03-08-2005 23:55:35

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Re: O.T. Property Tax Accessment in reply to Frank (N.Mi.), 03-08-2005 16:48:11

Don't feel bad in Menard county IL some or all business acessments went up by 1000% talk about a kick in the butt.

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Easy

03-08-2005 22:50:17

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Re: O.T. Property Tax Accessment in reply to Frank (N.Mi.), 03-08-2005 16:48:11

I noticed the same thing. I think what has changed is the inflation index. The property tax increase is limited to the rate of inflation or 5%, whichever is less. For several years my property tax did not go up hardly at all, since inflation was so low. But now that the feds are running big deficits, the inflation is coming back, pushing up the local taxes. You are like me, we have been living in the same house for 20 years, so we have made out ok on taxes, so far. When the tax change was passed in 1994, my taxes dropped by over 50%! They still haven't come back to where they were. However, if I was to sell my property, the new owner would have a much higher tax basis. I talked to a real estate agent and he called this the "pop up". It is getting to be a real problem, because 2 people with identical properties can be paying wildly different taxes. In some cases 50 - 100%. Although I benefited from this, I don't think it was real well thought out. The alternative was an increase in income taxes, or a combination of tax increases. If inflation keeps going up, it will increase taxes for most people far faster than wages, since most people's property is worth more than thier annual income. Since inflation tends to run at a given level for years, it could really rip us in the future. One interesting thing I found too - the state tells the township how much the property in the township is worth, and how much in taxes the must get. So if you appeal, and your taxes go down, somebody else gets hosed. I.E. a zero sum game. Easy, Mid Michigan.

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MSD

03-08-2005 19:57:26

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Re: O.T. Property Tax Accessment in reply to Frank (N.Mi.), 03-08-2005 16:48:11

Here in SD, I had 2 plats of land adjoining each other. I sold the 17.5 acre pasture to a neighbor for $13,000. Last year the assesed value of the 17.5 pasture and the 15.5 acres of crop land that I kept was $54,653. This year the neighbor got an assesed value of $46,563 on his $13,000 pasture. I got an assesed value of $43,513 for my crop land. The total value of the 2 peices is now $90,076. Thats $35,423 more assesed value they can tax. The neighbor did complain and managed to get his lowered to $22,000 but was still mad it was assesed higher than what it is actually worth.

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Tim(nj)

03-08-2005 21:22:48

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That sounds like what they used to do here in reply to MSD, 03-08-2005 19:57:26

Since 1964, there has been a law on the books that requires farmland in this state to be assessed as just that, farmland. You must certify it is in agriculture to comply. Taxes still aren"t cheap on it, but it could be worse.
What the municipalities used to do was this (figures are not accurate, just examples): Suppose you had 100 acres of corn and hay just outside Piscataway, NJ, which back in the 50s was where the new development creeping out from the "old cities" was happening. Unsubdivided, it was worth $500 an acre. But it could be subdivided into 1 acre lots, and 100 houses could be on it, each worth $20,000. So they taxed you as though it was worth $20,000 an acre. There was a court battle over that system and the government lost, so that"s why we have our current system. I live 50 miles west of Piscataway, and now the development has crept out this far, at the Delaware River. Won"t be long, I won"t have anything left to farm, so the tax system is moot . . . .

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kyhayman

03-08-2005 19:49:02

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Re: O.T. Property Tax Accessment in reply to Frank (N.Mi.), 03-08-2005 16:48:11

Ive heard that MI has a rough property tax system. I really have to say that, at least in one county, I cant complain. Our property taxes are limited to 4% increase (county wide) plus new growth. In the county where I have the main farm, my total bill has gone up $4 in 14 years (went down for 4 years straight due to rising values that cut the rate and the ag value didnt change). Other county (where my house and my dads farm is) uses a different convention (they have a choice of 4 but still cap total tax receipts at 4% plus new growth). My rate has dropped but my assessment has gone up 50% in 4 years. Tax bill goes up about $100 a year. Sad part is, Id sell the house for what its assessed.

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jdemaris

03-08-2005 20:01:56

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Re: O.T. Property Tax Accessment in reply to kyhayman, 03-08-2005 19:49:02

I've heard the opposite about Michigan. We get skinned alive here in New York with school taxes. My wife is from Dearbon, MI and her parents live in Alpena, MI. From what they tell me, MI has no school taxes for residents - is that true? I've been told that all school taxes are paid by non-resident property owners and buinesses. Last year their propane was the much cheaper than here because the state had a cap on it (or maybe the county?). Every time I travel to MI the fuel is cheaper than here, and they also don't have any state automobile inspection. When I lived in northern Vermont, inspection was twice a year, and here in NY it once. I've been paying a little attention to MI since we've been looking to buy property in the U.P.

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Frank (N.Mi.)

03-09-2005 16:36:58

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Re: O.T. Property Tax Accessment in reply to jdemaris, 03-08-2005 20:01:56

Well, Michigan does have school taxes for residents but, it is limited in the amount it can increase as described in my first post. If however you own property and do not live on it,(developer, second home, etc.) it is not limited and is taxed at a far higher rate. Our particular area has a lot of well-off people who own vacation homes here and they pay BIG taxes!

Gas prices are a bit less then N.Y. as I remember, they are about 25-30 cents per gallon higher here at the tip of the Mitt then down in the Metro areas (nice).

You probably already know that the U.P. is a great place to own land and vacation but no place to try to make a living!

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Easy

03-08-2005 23:03:36

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Re: O.T. Property Tax Accessment in reply to jdemaris, 03-08-2005 20:01:56

Your inlaws have always made out! Dearborn was for many years was a adjunct of the Ford Motor Co. In some of thses towns, big companies paid 50% or more of the taxes, and frequently buying the locals equipment too - fire engines, tractors - always ford tractors around here. And Alpena benifited from the Air force base ( I think!). I grew up in Wayne, Mi. I believe that the FoMoCO paid about 40% of the taxes in the town in the 70's. Now it is much less. Now if communities don't give the big corps big tax breaks, they move out, taking good jobs with them. I think the feds shouldn't allow this to happen. One community is whipsawed against others, and the big guys always win. Easy

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Easy

03-08-2005 23:19:41

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Re: O.T. Property Tax Accessment in reply to Easy, 03-08-2005 23:03:36

BTW - I got off topic there.
1) Everybody pays school taxes.
2) No cap on propane. My bill just went up. But we can choose between several suppliers.
3) Mobile homes come under a special provision, set up back in the 1950's. The owners of the trailer pay no regular property taxes, as the trailers are considered personal property, not subject to STATE tax. The owners of the parks only pay $56 per year, per trailer pad occupied. This means that trailer parks pay almost no real estate taxes, school taxes or anything at all!. I live in Livingston county and there was a survey a few years ago - they residents would rather have a toxic waste dump next door than a trailer park. No offense to those living in the parks, but the system isn't fair, tax wise. Easy

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paul

03-08-2005 19:22:49

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Re: O.T. Property Tax Accessment in reply to Frank (N.Mi.), 03-08-2005 16:48:11

Here in MN all the prop taxes bumped up & down a little....

"Cept my school property taxes. They went up 400% for 2005. From $100 to $400. The week before that, headline in the paper was the superintendant saying they need to pass a bond, the school is goin in the hole, programs will need to be cut.

Wow.

Turns out they found mold in the school a year ago, & they don"t have to pass bonds to fix that - so they will pay for 1/2 of the fix in 2005, and pay for the other 1/2 over a 10 year period.

BOOM, here"s the bill..... .... And we will need more to actually run the school in the future.....

--->Paul

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jhill

03-08-2005 19:22:32

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Re: O.T. Property Tax Accessment in reply to Frank (N.Mi.), 03-08-2005 16:48:11

My state equalized value stayed the same this year and taxable value went up 3%. Evidently land values in MI stayed the same or in your case dropped a little. The taxable value will always go up at least 3% until it is the same as the state equalized value. I think it is a good trade off. Property taxes would be out of site otherwisw. My Taxable value is about 1/2 the SEV. It is a big incentive not to move. I inherited 2 pieces of property and man the taxes are now based on the SEV. WOW what a hit.

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Frank (N.Mi.)

03-09-2005 16:43:31

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Re: O.T. Property Tax Accessment in reply to jhill, 03-08-2005 19:22:32

You are right about that not moving! Question--If you get property by inheriting instead of buying, Do you still get the big pop-up in taxes? I'm thinking probably yes. Wonder about it though...

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Mike(inWisc.)

03-08-2005 18:16:55

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Re: O.T. Property Tax Accessment in reply to Frank (N.Mi.), 03-08-2005 16:48:11

Well, I don't know about Michigan, but let me tell you what happened to me here in Wisconsin.

I bought this place in August of 2001. It had just been reassesed in 2000. Taxes went up of course from 2001 to 2002 because I had just bought it and they based the new tax on my purchase price.

Aug of 2004 they reasses the entire town. My asessment is up a whopping 125%!!!! I call to complain when we are allowed to dispute. The assessor tells me that he did it to everyone and that the mill rate would be adjusted down to have a net result of about the same tax.

Next thing I know I get a tax bill that is up a staggering 70% over last year. Had about a month to come up with the money--right at christmas--wasn't that nice?

All I can say is that I feel like I was sandbagged. That is a huge increase. I made no improvements to the property, and there is no development within four miles--and no zoning changes anywhere near me.

What I know for sure, is that the day that I no longer have a job here is the day that I leave Wisconsin. This is REALLY BS!!!!!

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Bill(Wis)

03-08-2005 21:18:14

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Re: O.T. Property Tax Accessment in reply to Mike(inWisc.), 03-08-2005 18:16:55

Apply for an appearance at the annual Board of Review. Prepare yourself well or get a tax accountant to help you. You didn't say how your land is identified for assessment. Is it agricultural? Mecantile? Productive forest? Residential? Recreational? It might be possible to change the way it is assessed by changing the way it is used.

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Mike(inWisc)

03-09-2005 07:03:36

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Re: O.T. Property Tax Accessment in reply to Bill(Wis), 03-08-2005 21:18:14

Bill,

It is all zoned AG. I only have about 20 acres and it is in use as pasture. It isn't really productive for anything else.

I will try to fight, but one shouldn't really have to fight to be treated fairly. I mean who is serving whom here? Is the gov. for us or is it the other way around?

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Bill(Wis)

03-10-2005 18:25:25

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Re: O.T. Property Tax Accessment in reply to Mike(inWisc), 03-09-2005 07:03:36

You say it is zoned for ag but on the assesors report is the assessment based on ag or is it split. For example one of my 40s has 6 acres of useless swamp on it (federal wetland no less) that is assessed as "undeveloped" and valued higher than the other 34 acres. They get around it by calling it "recreational". There is a way to drastically reduce your taxes by signing a 25 or 50 year agreement that will keep it in managed forest. That's another story however, and you might not want to do that.

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Paul in Mich

03-08-2005 17:22:08

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Re: O.T. Property Tax Accessment in reply to Frank (N.Mi.), 03-08-2005 16:48:11

Frank, The best explaination I can give is this: You are Joe Citizen (I know its Frank), and you keep your money, say $100.00 in your left pants pocket. The State tax collector is walking along beside you and sticks his right hand in your left pocket to extract what he deems his just due of $20.00. He wants more, so he tells you that he is going to only reach in and extract $15.00 from the same pocket and that to show good faith asks you to take what money you have left and transfer it to your right hand pants pocket for safe keeping, whereupon there is another tax collector walking along on your right who reaches in with his left hand while explaining to you that he is only going to take another $15.00. The end result is that between the two state employed pickpockets, they end up with $30.00, whereas if you hadnt complained to the first one, you would have only been separated from $20.00. Its called "expecting too much from government will get you exactly what you can expect from government".

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dr.sportster

03-08-2005 19:17:40

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Re: O.T. Property Tax Accessment in reply to Dug, 03-08-2005 19:05:07

do you have to be political? It really detracts from the freindly atmosphere.

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Dug

03-09-2005 19:26:02

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Re: O.T. Property Tax Accessment in reply to dr.sportster, 03-08-2005 19:17:40

Hey dr.,

Uhmmm, I don't HAVE to get political, but I feel the NEED to spread the truth!!!

My best to you!

Dug

PS I'll convert you one of these days!!!

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Rod M1

03-08-2005 17:33:43

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Re: O.T. Property Tax Accessment in reply to Paul in Mich, 03-08-2005 17:22:08

I think Paul is right.

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taxed one

03-08-2005 18:29:36

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Re: O.T. Property Tax Accessment in reply to Rod M1, 03-08-2005 17:33:43

The governments primary objective is to get money from it's citizens.

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