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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

Too high prices!

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kirk C,

03-08-2005 21:21:36




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Are the tractor Co,s thinking that we are made of money?
I just drove a Massey 1235 compact tractor today,
I had fun on it,
Neat little tractor,but not for the price that their asking,
I mean 14,500 for this thing,?
sheesh man,for that money,you can get two older massey,s in good cond to boot,
Shoot man, what a rip off,I cant believe they would ask that for a little tractor like that?
Oh well they just lost a sale,forget that junk!
Really dissapointed tractor nut!

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SJ

03-09-2005 12:48:27




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 Re: Too high prices! in reply to kirk C,, 03-08-2005 21:21:36  
Well heres my .02,I would love to have a brand new JD 4000 series for my little horse farm(and no Im not a yuppy).But I have a Oliver 1550,which I think is a monster,and a pain in the a$$ to operate,compared to the hydro machines I drive at work,speaking of work which totals around 70 hrs a week including drive time,I seem to spend enough time maintaining the various motors on the Ponderosa here,which I enjoy on most occasions,but when old shoddy equipment breaks down,I dont seem to enjoy fixing it like some of you around here do,so why dont I have a new JD 4000 series tractor?
I CANT AFFORD ONE IF I COULD I WOULD HAVE A COUPLA OF EM. There I feel better getting that out.So if you can afford one of them new fancy plastic machines,I say buy it and the time you spend not repairing it you can be at work on overtime,so you can make the payments.
Stan

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Bill(Wis)

03-10-2005 18:07:22




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 Re: Too high prices! in reply to SJ, 03-09-2005 12:48:27  
I thought the JD 4000 series a bit pricey from the start. Have you looked at their 5000 series utility tractors? More tractor for the money but maybe you don't need that much tractor. I look at any tractor smaller than a 5105 as being limited to the garden.



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buickandeere

03-09-2005 10:35:10




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 Re: Too high prices! in reply to kirk C,, 03-08-2005 21:21:36  
$14,500 is cheap. Cost of land, enviromental compliance, engineering, legal department. Is you look like money some creep will find a reason to sue. Cost of, buildings, production equipment and repairs. Utilities, taxes, payroll, pension, workman's compensation. And the cost of the metal and petrochemicals to make the tractor out of.



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Farmall_Ryan

03-09-2005 09:32:34




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 Re: Too high prices! in reply to kirk C,, 03-08-2005 21:21:36  
Seems to me that the MF factory parts are rediculous as well. On some of the repairs we'va made lately, I couldn't belive the price.

MF383 with 838 Loader attachment: Ball joint broke off joystick control. Tried brazing it back on but it only lasted a month. Anyway, the new cable (about 5') cost $170!

MF265: Kill switch snapped off. Went to farm supply store and talked with sales person. A new MF kill switch cable cost almost $20. The no name brand on the shelf was only $8.

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Mike M

03-09-2005 08:08:13




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 Re: Too high prices! in reply to kirk C,, 03-08-2005 21:21:36  
Those compacts have thier place just as the larger ones do. You have to figure out what you need first. Too many buy the sub-or a small compact because they are not as high priced,but then find out it's too small to do what they need. I have ran some with a hydro trans. and a loader and 4x4 and it is suprising how much and how fast you can do some things with them.I can move a lot of dirt with one even keep up with a machine twice as big that doesn't have a hydro and plus the compacts won't tear up and compact the ground as bad. They do have a place and the sales figures on them is proof enough small tractors are the only thing keeping some companies going.

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cockshuttguy

03-09-2005 07:34:06




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 Re: Too high prices! in reply to kirk C,, 03-08-2005 21:21:36  
Yep, you bees right.
That is more than I have invested in my nest of cockshutts. And on top of that I have years and years and thousands of dollars to go before the nest begins to look like something. More fun than riding around on something that won't do the job anyway.
Good Luck,



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Paul in Mich

03-09-2005 06:24:20




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 Re: Too high prices! in reply to kirk C,, 03-08-2005 21:21:36  
Kirk, Tractors aren"t much different than anything else. I remember back in 1965 I ordered a brand new Ford Mustang for $2,600. (not a typo). You wouldnt blink at paying $26,000. for a new one if you were in the market for one. I agree though that unless there is something about one of these new compact tractors that makes it tower over some of the older ones out there in performance, and economy, you"re probably better off finding a 30 or 40 year old tractor, and continue to use it for the next 30 or 40 years rather than invest in one of these new toys that will be junk in 10 years. They do drive nice though, don"t they?

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buickanddeere

03-09-2005 10:38:26




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 Re: Too high prices! in reply to Paul in Mich, 03-09-2005 06:24:20  
I remember old timers crying about John Deere not building two cylinder anymore that were designed to last and be easy to work on. E.G. " Why those flimpsy plastic high speed 4010's and 4020's will be worn out and junk before my 730 is broken in".



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Paul in Mich

03-09-2005 12:46:17




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 Re: Too high prices! in reply to buickanddeere, 03-09-2005 10:38:26  
And so will their next generation be junk before your 730 croaks. In fact, I"ll go so far as to say that there are tractors not yet on the drawing board that will be junk before your 730 and my Farmall H gasps their last breath.



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Allan in NE

03-09-2005 05:48:20




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 Re: Too high prices! in reply to kirk C,, 03-08-2005 21:21:36  
Hi Kirk,

I also looked at those little outfits. Studied 'em long and hard for about a minute and a half.

Just not much there; they are just another in a long line of Yuppie spin-offs.

I still say we are way ahead of the game putting these old farm tractors back in service. Must be a lot of folks thinking the same, as the price of this old iron is rising as well.

Allan



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Indydirtfarmer

03-09-2005 06:27:30




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 Re: Too high prices! in reply to Allan in NE, 03-09-2005 05:48:20  
Allan,

Did you print a copy of your previous reply to be sent to your wife?

Remember, we're all convinced. She's the one you need to sell on your concept.


YOU CAN'T SAVE 'EM ALL ALLAN!!!!! !!!!! !!!



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Allan in NE

03-09-2005 06:36:44




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 Re: Too high prices! in reply to Indydirtfarmer, 03-09-2005 06:27:30  
Yes Sir,

I'll be the first to admit it; she's somewhere in the area of 400 times smarter than I am, that's for sure. So, I pay pretty close attention to what that ol' gal says. :>)

She's located another farm and Saturday morning, we are off to take a look at it and kick some dirt.

Here I go again, getting my hopes all pumped up that this is going to be the perfect place..... .. This old iron sure makes one thing lead to another. :>(

Allan

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Indydirtfarmer

03-09-2005 06:56:04




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 Re: Too high prices! in reply to Allan in NE, 03-09-2005 06:36:44  
Well good luck with the farm! Just remember, it doesn't have to be "the perfect place" when you first find it. Half the fun is MAKING it perfect.



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thurlow

03-09-2005 05:33:33




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 Re: Too high prices! in reply to kirk C,, 03-08-2005 21:21:36  
Believe it's called capitalism..... supply and demand? Would you rather have the tractor or your money? If he can't sell it for that price, he'll take less; don't hold your breath..... ...



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greenbeanman in Kansas

03-09-2005 05:15:38




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 Re: Too high prices! in reply to kirk C,, 03-08-2005 21:21:36  
I expect the same thing was said about 8N Fords and the other small tractors when they came out.

The feasibility of the compact tractor use vs. an older tractor depends upon what the tractor will be used for.

Can the older tractor go slow enough to handle a roto-tiller that is wide enough to work out the wheel tracks?

Is the physical size of the older tractor well fitted to vegetable growing on small acreages? Ease of getting on and off to change seeds after planting a row?

Do both have adequate clearance for row crops?

Do both offer equal 3 point usage? PTO usage? Lighting? ROPS? Comfort?

Are parts readily available for either? Ease of repair? Older sized tires readily available?

How well will the older tractor do with a finish mower on it? Will it tear up a school football field or lawn while turning.

Is the older tractor agile enough to be handy on a cement mixer?

Can the older tractor drive into horse or other livestock facilities to move the manure out easily?

Is the older tractor big enough and heavy enough that it doesn't need front wheel assist? If so is so big and heavy that it does too much soil compaction?

Does the older tractor have the proper hydraulic capacity for a loader? Does it have power steering for ease of steering while using a loader?

Is the compact heavy enough duty to handle a loader? Can the compact handle moving round bales whether straw for mulch or feed for livestock?

Can the compact handle a baler?

Can the compact be safely stop when pulling trailers loaded with bales.

Can the compact move all of the snow that you need to move?

If an older tractor or compact won't fit your needs what use is it?

They used to say that there is a tractor built for every use. Just figure out your uses and make your best choice whether it be that older tractor or a compact. Keep your money or have a modern farm tractor that will do all of you ask of it and more.

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Yeahbut

03-09-2005 05:08:10




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 Re: Too high prices! in reply to kirk C,, 03-08-2005 21:21:36  
When you think that a garden tractor sells for half that price, doesn't last half as long and has poor resale, maybe it's a bargain.



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paul

03-08-2005 22:26:59




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 Re: Too high prices! in reply to kirk C,, 03-08-2005 21:21:36  
Those tractors & that price is keeping many, many dealers & even manufaturers in business. Real ag sales are quite flat. Those compacts are being sold to the yuppie 10 acre folks left & right, & they have the money to toss at it.

--->Paul



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Rauville

03-09-2005 04:45:55




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 Re: Too high prices! in reply to paul, 03-08-2005 22:26:59  
That 10 acre place you're speaking of must be just down the road from us. It just sold last fall to a Las Vegas trial lawyer for use as a "vacation get-away". His first two purchases were a new Dodge Dually diesel 4x4 pickup to leave in the garage, and a new John Deere 7720 MFWD tractor w/ loader.
His father-in-law from town here approached me the other day to ask if we would consider "renting" a horse to them. Just so they could have a animal on the "farm" for the summer!

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Paul in Mich

03-09-2005 06:27:11




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 Re: Too high prices! in reply to Rauville, 03-09-2005 04:45:55  
Rent them the horse and they can start their own "Mustang Ranch".



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No reserved name

03-09-2005 05:23:36




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 Re: Too high prices! in reply to Rauville, 03-09-2005 04:45:55  
Did you talk them into the dog and some cats for the mice?
I wish I had a few like that.



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Stickler

03-09-2005 03:31:06




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 Re: Too high prices! in reply to paul, 03-08-2005 22:26:59  
Not only do they have the money (or the bank does) but many of them could never keep an older real tractor running if they wanted to. To them, if it doesn't have computerized everything, 27 cupholders and a DVD player, it's not a real vehicle. It's like a status symbol to them to brag about how badly they get raped at the dealership every time they have to go for a "service" because they are incapable of even changing their own oil never mind actually getting their hands all dirty doing any real repair job.

Even the few that do buy an older machine amaze me. Why on earth would someone that doesn't know what points are or how drum brakes work or how a choke works buy a 50 year old tractor?

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Willis F.Vandermisser II

03-09-2005 03:49:42




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 Re: Too high prices! in reply to Stickler, 03-09-2005 03:31:06  
I suppose I'm what you refer to as a "Yuppie" with a small place [we've got 328 acers] When one of my 18 tractors needs service,or repairs,I tell the butler,he faxes a repair order to the ranch foreman,who assigns the needed repairs to a service tech. They will sharpen the points,grease the brakes,add antifreeze to the transmission or whatever needed. So not all of us are dumb to the workings of machines. I helped the 2 service men put a battery in the ATV last year MYSELF!!! As Dad always said " A Blue chip stock,is a BLUE CHIP,but a Bond is a BOND!!!!" Got to go.... got POLO at 11:00.Then watch the yardman prune the hedges later.On a "working" farm, there is 4-to-6 hours EVERY day [except weekends],hard but rewarding!!!

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Dieselrider

03-09-2005 05:15:12




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 Re: Too high prices! in reply to Willis F.Vandermisser II, 03-09-2005 03:49:42  
That was good! Funny.



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Ken Macfarlane

03-09-2005 05:26:04




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 Re: Too high prices! in reply to Dieselrider, 03-09-2005 05:15:12  
I suppose I am a yuppie cause despite liking to work on old equipment on my timeline, I HATE depending on an old piece of equipment. Chasing down hard to find spare parts while the hay is getting rained on or trouble shooting old rotted wiring when it is snowing and the neighbours need cleaned out just doesn't do it for me.

Putting around dragging a couple of logs out or pulling a wagon back to the barn sure but I like the main tractor to be solid reliable.

Those compacts seem expensive but go price a MF231S or whatever it is called, is basically a new shiny MF35. Bring a change of underwear!

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Steve Mahler

03-09-2005 05:24:15




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 Re: Too high prices! in reply to Dieselrider, 03-09-2005 05:15:12  
Yeah as a yuppie with both a diesel compact and an antique, I guess I will say that both machines have their place in the world. A new compact is a wonderful thing...you can jump on it and do what you need to do, abuse it, neglect it, leave it out in the rain, and it will still run 10yrs without the first repair. The antiques require a little more love, and they arent as handy on the small jobs. I just had to dig up a septic tank and then bury it again, sandwiched in between the house and barn. Literally a couple feet wider than my compact tractor - try that kind of delicate job with a Massey utility...

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Jerry Cent. Mi.

03-09-2005 08:38:34




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 Re: Too high prices! in reply to Steve Mahler, 03-09-2005 05:24:15  
I don't understand why they are all going hydro. They lose a lot of HP with a hydro.



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RayP(MI)

03-09-2005 11:13:37




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 Re: Why a hydro? in reply to Jerry Cent. Mi., 03-09-2005 08:38:34  
They may not be as efficient as a geared transmission, but the direction reversing ability, and the smooth transition from 0 to whatever top speed is, with just the touch of a lever (pedal?) makes them very valuable for loader work, and tight quarter work where variable speeds enable you to manuver quickly and easily. If you're doing simple drawbar work, yeah, a mechanical transmission is good, but try a good hydro for a day, in other conditions, and you'll be singing a different tune!

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Tim(nj)

03-09-2005 12:10:22




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 Re: Why a hydro? in reply to RayP(MI), 03-09-2005 11:13:37  
A good part of the people who buy these things also have never driven anything without an automatic transmission. Concepts of clutch, shuttle shift, partial powershift (i.e. Quad-Range or Multi-Power), etc. are beyond their grasp. They could learn to use these things just like we did, but they"re scared of the machine. 1-lever hydro with a stop pedal doesn"t overwhelm them too much.



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paul

03-09-2005 15:55:15




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 Re: Why a hydro? in reply to Tim(nj), 03-09-2005 12:10:22  
We get into this discussion all the time over at www.tractorbynet.com, and it is amazing. A hydro tranny is to be worshiped it is so much better for _everything_, and cheaper to run & repair as well!

Sheez. (Right Soundguy, if you are reading???? :)

Hydro is fine if that is what you want, but there are always tradeoffs. Me, I do better with a real tranny even on the loader.

--->Paul



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Dion

03-10-2005 01:43:49




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 Re: Why a hydro? in reply to paul, 03-09-2005 15:55:15  
I went to the farm machinery show in Louisville a few weeks ago and saw nearly everything under the sun. I enjoyed test fitting my butt on the new tractors but always nearly fell out of it when I heard the price.
The MF tractors seem behind on HP and hyd flow while the new McCormack tractors seem like they have a better handle on what a farmer wants. If you are a proffesional excvator then there is equipment for that too.
I think older tractors serve many purposes: allow work to be done, pride of ownership when you have done the work to get it to where it is now, satisfy the need to tinker or be creative AND conserve money.
I will always stick with and older tractor for all those reasons and I don't need a DVD on my tractor, I can just go in the house if I get bored with fooling with the farm.

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