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Want to build a polebarn, where to start?

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Mike from cny

03-19-2005 17:23:00




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Well first off, my dad and I would like to buy some sort of kit, was wondering if anyone could reccomend one. We are thinking 30x40, however I'm thinking thats not going to be big enough. I already have a 2 stall garage packed right full with with stuff, plus my small tractor. Future plans include a 450 deere crawler/loader, tractor loader back hoe and a skid steer, but the last 2 wont come for quite a while. Was also wondering if anyone had any suggestions for building one as well. We have roughly 10K to spend, is this going to be enough? It will be used as some storage and for working on the toys as well. I'd even be willing to get electricity later on if I could use that money to make it slighty bigger. What do you guys think of this situation?

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Hal/WA

03-21-2005 14:31:04




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 Re: Want to build a polebarn, where to start? in reply to Mike from cny, 03-19-2005 17:23:00  
The very first think I would do is find out what your local government requires you to do in designing and building such a building. They may make you do some things that make the building cost much more than you would think it should. Forewarned is forearmed. If you live in an area with strict code enforcement, it ends up being cheaper to just play their game to begin with, rather than making changes they require.

I also would suggest doing an insulation pack/vapor barrier beneath the roof metal. It does not cost that much and is a heck of a lot easier to do while you are putting on the outer metal than it is to try to do it after everything is in place. This insulation/vapor barrier lessens or eliminates the condensation problem on the inside surface. It is a hassle to deal with drips raining down on your stuff inside your building.

I always overbuild, which costs a bit more than it might have to. But nothing I have ever built has sagged or fallen down. You also need to consider the possible wind and snow loads and brace accordingly.

Undoubtedly when you have the building completed, you will wish you had built it bigger and had done something in a different way. At least that has been my experience. Good luck!

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sjh

03-20-2005 09:51:18




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 Re: Want to build a polebarn, where to start? in reply to Mike from cny, 03-19-2005 17:23:00  
Do you have any Amish or Meninites around. They should have some mills and are generally cheaper with better quality lumber. At lest try a saw mill. I can buy white oak for the same price as pine from the lumber yard.
I live in Orleans cty and our codes say 8' spacing, 42" deep and concrete in the bottem of the hole.



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WiCraig

03-20-2005 06:42:39




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 Re: Want to build a polebarn, where to start? in reply to Mike from cny, 03-19-2005 17:23:00  
Had a 24 x 40 built 1.5 years ago, concrete slab, $7500. Not big enough or just too many toys on my part. Not happy with the metal roof, sweats and so much noise when it rains, you can't hear the person next to you.



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JKA82

06-10-2005 07:37:41




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 Re: Want to build a polebarn, where to start? in reply to WiCraig, 03-20-2005 06:42:39  
If you put insulation under the roof this will help with the sweating. If you have heating or cooling in the barn and the barn has conditioned air that is why it sweats.



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Bernie Guettler

03-20-2005 06:17:18




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 Re: Want to build a polebarn, where to start? in reply to Mike from cny, 03-19-2005 17:23:00  
I had a Morton 30 X 45 put up about 5 years ago. It ran me about $17K including concrete slab. I am real satified with it. It took them about 4 days to put it up.



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SJ

03-20-2005 06:15:48




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 Re: Want to build a polebarn, where to start? in reply to Mike from cny, 03-19-2005 17:23:00  
I had a 24x36x10 built 3yrs ago for 7K,board and batt exterior,dirt floor,I went with a metal roof to save some money and it leaks already at some of the screws and when I load up my hay area the inside roof sweats like crazy under certain weather conditions,wish I would of went with shingles.
Good Luck Stan



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MarkB_MI

03-20-2005 05:41:23




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 Re: Want to build a polebarn, where to start? in reply to Mike from cny, 03-19-2005 17:23:00  
I just finished up a 30x40x10 post frame building. I bought a kit from Carter Lumber. The $10K you want to spend would pretty much cover my costs, but I bought my kit before building materials went through the roof. (Don't forget to budget a couple thousand for concrete work.) I went with a T1-11 plywood and a shingle roof to match our house.

If you have a local building inspector, be sure and stop by and talk to him. He can tell you what is and is not acceptable. (For example, some places require a concrete slab plus a ratwall, others just a slab, and some places require no floor at all.

I put in electric (100 amp service) and water (two frostproof yard hydrants) before I even had the roof and siding done, and I haven't regretted it a bit. You'll get sick and tired of trying to work on your equipment with a long drop cord.

One thing that a lot of do-it-yourselfers scrimp on is the lot preparation. Make sure you have a level building site with good drainage in all directions before you drill your holes. You can't fix it after the building is up.

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Mark - IN.

03-20-2005 05:40:50




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 Re: Want to build a polebarn, where to start? in reply to Mike from cny, 03-19-2005 17:23:00  
There are several good kits out there, and most run comparable on prices, and the labor to put it up is about as much as the price itself, if you pay to have it put up.

It cost me $65 an hour to have a guy bring out is Case 450 and level it for a few hours. That was cheap, considering that I tried it with a backblade first and...well, I'm not good at that. Then $12.5K for the materials on a 40x60, and another $12.5K to put it up. Concrete is included. Thing is, I'm in another state working all week, and needed to get it up.

Make sure your doors are big enough. I went with 12' wide doors, now I'm headin out after this to auger down and drop two more posts before they bring the concrete so have 14' wide doors. Now gotta take some metal down, fasten the cross-2x4's into the new posts, pull the old ones out, trim those cross-2x4's off, take all of the metal off of the doors, remake the door frames, and put all the metal and some new back on the doors. It's do-able, just could've been avoided with a little more thought on my part first. Good thing the concrete aint coming for a couple of weeks. When you think you know how big your doors gotta be, add at least a couple of feet. My doors are opposite of each other at both ends of the building, clear to one side so I can pass through the building without having to move stuff. Some guys center their doors for combines and stuff that can't make tight turns. Be careful where you position your doors too - it make a difference.

Mark

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Steve Crum

03-20-2005 05:37:47




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 Re: Want to build a polebarn, where to start? in reply to Mike from cny, 03-19-2005 17:23:00  
The first place to start is by looking in the checkbook. Should be at least 5 figures available there. Then be prepared for a 3 month brawl with the local planning commission and town fathers.
It's best to get a plan drawn up the way you want it and have a contracter install it as fast as he can before you can start thinking up what you want to change or add on. I'm still building mine (11 months) and it's a "work in progress".

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brtx

03-19-2005 21:58:19




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 Re: Want to build a polebarn, where to start? in reply to Mike from cny, 03-19-2005 17:23:00  
forgot to mention we did not use roofing nails on the metal.used all qtr inch head screws with robbes washers. they do not loosen or leak and we put them in evry valley of the corrugated.



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brtx

03-19-2005 21:42:45




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 Re: Want to build a polebarn, where to start? in reply to Mike from cny, 03-19-2005 17:23:00  
we purchased a 30 by 40 open sided pole barn from sutherlands. around 3400. did it by ourselves with some help from friends. 16 ft height. before we put the sheet metal on deciced to put a 12 by 30 which we made into 3 horsey stalls . on the other end built a 10 by 30 workshop. both the end are 10 ft in height.we have (4) 10 by 30 bays .3 0f the bays have 12 ft high lofts.the 4th was going to be for road truck and trailer repair.have retired since. i do have 2 suggestions .first dont use nails.use wood screws. they dont come loose.a pain at times but worth it.when yousink the polesuse some long nails there. it gives the cement something to adhere to. 1 to 2 inches in the wood and a couple inches for the concrete. in building the lofts we sank more 4 by 6 treated posts in the ground and tied them into the trusses. we live in the texas panhandle with some pretty strong wind and are pretty with it. we only came out 10 ft from the back of the building with 2 lofts . the extra poles did take away 10 ft of open span, but it does give us some extra storage for hay etc. its been up for 5 yrs and happy with it so far

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jdemaris

03-19-2005 21:09:50




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 Re: Want to build a polebarn, where to start? in reply to Mike from cny, 03-19-2005 17:23:00  
I don't have too much to add considering what's already been posted. But, are you in Central New York (Mike in CNY)? Or does the CNY stand for something else? I have property in Central New York (Otsego Co.), Northen New York (Jefferson Co.), and in the Adirondacks (Hamilton Co.), and I've built half a dozen pole barns. There are several issues to think about, number one is snow. I don't like the standard 4/12 pitch that most pole barn kits offer for the roofs. Something a little steeper sheds snow a lot better. I also don't like the trusses spaced far apart. I buy lighter trusses spaced on 24" or 48" centers, and usually figure for a 40 or 60 lb snow load. Some counties in this area require 60 lbs. Steel standing-seam roofing makes the roof, more-or-less maintenance free in cold and snowy areas. If you think the building is going to be heated, do yourself a favor (if you can afford the money and time) and put an "ice house" roof on it. That is, 1/2" or 5/8" plywood over the 2' center trusses, vapor barrier, then 1" purlins over it, and then the steel roofing screwed to the purlins. This design with the dead air space eliminates a lot of the condensation problems that often exist with heated buildings and steel roofing in cold areas. You also might want to think about future improvements. If, somewhere down the road, you might want to insulate and heat the building, build accordingly. Use some decent doors and windows. I shoppped around for kits from 84 Lumber, Stock Lumber, and a few others. Mostly cheap crap. You CAN customize the kits and get better materials, but at that point - you're just as well off by desigining exactly what you want, then give them a materials list, and let them bid you a price. What everyone else has said about size always seems to be true. I can never seem to get a building finished before it's already filled with stuff. Seems like once upon a time, I bought some equipment so I could move dirt and build buildings. Now, all I do is build buildings to put equipment in. It never ends, I think I'm mentally ill. One more thing. Some counties in New York do not allow pole barn construction without a continous below-frostline footing. Sounds ridiculous, but it's the law. Just went though this in Hamilton Co. in the Adirondacks. Any pole barn larger than 20' X 20' has to have a continous concrete footer four feet deep (below frost line). Makes no sense, but it's the law now.

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Dug

03-19-2005 20:04:15




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 Re: Want to build a polebarn, where to start? in reply to Mike from cny, 03-19-2005 17:23:00  
Depends where you are from, but I would go with framing it and buying seconds on your sheet tin. $10k should cover most of your costs.

Kyhayman had a good suggestion on determining size. I should have asked him before I built mine last year. Now I'm looking for a place to build my second pole barn...

Dug



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DL

03-19-2005 19:59:49




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 Re: Want to build a polebarn, where to start? in reply to Mike from cny, 03-19-2005 17:23:00  
Hey Mike,
I'm currently working on a pole building. Our's is 48' x 64'... wanted to make it 56' x 80', but was running short on funds & had to build what we could afford. We're using tripled 2 x 8's... stiffer poles (cause we get a bit of wind out here) and 2 x 6's for purlins & girts (again because of the wind & snow load). We're just buying lumber and building ourselves (although we DID buy manufactured trusses... a local building code issue) it's just not that big of a deal! Our neighbor did buy a kit a couple years back... I think it cost him about $12,500 for a 40 x 60 w/16' side walls. The kit seems like it went together OK, although he has had to go in and add some reinforcement. We began by selecting a good site on our property... tried to get on high ground, but still had to bring in some fill. After fill was compacted, we rented a Bobcat w/auger and drilled holes for the poles... we went down 4' (minimum)... after setting poles in concrete, we set forms & poured the floor. I think we had about $7,500 in fill, concrete & equipment rentals... another $1,000 for lumber for our poles (we had 40 of 'em... our own design). All that was last fall/early winter... we're just now able to get back at it! Been hanging trusses today, as a matter of fact!!! As I was planning this job, I consulted with a local engineer & learned a few things... I think the triple 2 x 8's for poles are worth the extra money (at least in this area)... will result in a much stiffer building (we're using pressure treated for the poles) AND, he recommended setting poles on 8' centers. Initially, I thought that was overkill, but talked to 3 truss manufacturers who all agreed that 8' centers are best for pole buildings (and I saved a lot of cash on the trusses 'cause they didn't have to be so heavy). The way it's looking, we'll have about $25k invested when this building is complete, but it should be pretty nice. I'm going to use T-111 siding (instead of tin) and will put OSB sheathing on the roof before the corrugated roofing. Eventually, I'll insulate and finish the inside (it'll have a loft in the center section of the building). If we ever start making any noticeable progress, I'll try to post some pic's. In summary, build as large as you can afford... kits are fine, just check the quality of the components you receive... opt for the heavier tin! HTH, sorry it's so long!
Regards,
DL

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old bones

03-19-2005 19:40:52




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 Re: Want to build a polebarn, where to start? in reply to Mike from cny, 03-19-2005 17:23:00  
i spent 25 years in the lumber business in the midwest, building and selling all types of ag buildings- from simple calf lean-to's, to pole buildings, to large scale hog confinements (not really proud to have been associated with those, but kids needed to be fed). i would suggest you go to a smaller, locally owned lumberyard. the big box stores (home depot, menards, lowes, etc) don't seem to have the right people to help you with a specialty project. yes, as simple as a pole building is, it's still a specialty in today's marketplace. their package pole buildings are, to be kind, "lacking". the smaller lumberyards will figure your building and sell you the materials you need- that's their business. their reputation rides on satisfied customers, and they want you to come back. they mostlikely will draw a set of plans, as well (if you buy it from them). you probably don't need engineered prints for your shed, unless it's for commercial use, and then it's questionable. one major suggestion- buy your trusses, don't try to build them yourself. i'm not sure where you're from, but everywhere i've been in the past 15 years has codes that require specific live, dead, and in some cases ceiling load requirements. there was a rumor in iowa that ag buildings were exempt from codes, but it turned out (in a lawsuit) that there is no enforcement of the codes for livestock buildings, but liability is still there if anything happens. insurance companies have their own quirks about losses and liabilities, as well. from experience, unless you're building a 10 or 12' chicken house roof, you can't build a large truss for what you can buy one for (yeah, i know you can buy rough lumber cheap, and use o.s.b. for gussets, but that would be kinda like driving a truck across the mississippi river on a bridge made out of tree branches lashed together with used bale twine). don't be cheap with the structure.
my two cents.

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kyhayman

03-19-2005 18:27:56




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 Re: Want to build a polebarn, where to start? in reply to Mike from cny, 03-19-2005 17:23:00  
$10K 'might' get you into the ball park of a small kit barn. What I've learned..... ..... .....

1. Estimate the largest possible building you could ever fathom needing, then double it. When its built it will be exactly half as big as you will wish you had built in 5 years.

2. If cost is the driver, forget the kits. Order rough lumber and use seconds metal siding. You will spend about 20% of what some of the kits cost and have a stronger building.

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Gerald J.

03-19-2005 18:26:51




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 Re: Want to build a polebarn, where to start? in reply to Mike from cny, 03-19-2005 17:23:00  
Menard's sells kits. UBC may sell kits. Other home centers don't know what a pole building is.

Midwest Plans Service offers a book of plans including details for making your own trusses.

You can't buy the high quality lumber the truss shops use so a home made truss with construction grade lumber will be at least half again as heavy.

You want laminated triple 2x6 posts. They are stronger and less likely to split than solid 4x6 or 6x6 posts.

You can't ever build it too big unless it covers the garden and laps over a property line.

Steel has jumped in price but last year I bought a building erected from Wick. They had the best price and decent quality. There were lower priced buildings, but the quality wasn't there.

Remember the trusses are on 8, 9, or 10' centers. That makes for really heavy trusses and takes a strong boom to put them up. You aren't going to lift one of those trusses with two hands on top the ladders.

Even if you go with a kit, let the various vendors show you their catalogs and their designs to give you ideas for details.

Door details will be the biggest pain with the need for special beams to hold trusses over wide sidewall doors. One of mine is steel, the other is laminated from four pieces of 20' long 2x14 clear douglas fir. More lumber you can't buy.

Gerald J.

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FRANK

03-19-2005 17:42:02




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 Re: Want to build a polebarn, where to start? in reply to Mike from cny, 03-19-2005 17:23:00  

I WAS GOING TO BUILD A 30 X 40 BUT WENT WITH A 30 X 50 AND NOW WISH I HAD WENT WITH ABOUT 40 X 60. SEEMS NO MATTER HOW BIG YOU BUILD, IT,S NEVER ENOUGH. FIRST OF ALL YOU WILL NEED A SLAB AND A 30 X 40 WILL PROBABLY TAKE ABOUT TWO GRAND OR BETTER.IF YOU EVEN THINK YOU WILL NEED MORE ROOM, I WOULD SUGGEST POURING THE BIGGER SLAB FIRST. IT WILL BE CHEAPER IN THE LONG RUN.IF YOU USE WOOD POST, (4X6) AND KEEP YOUR WALLS AT AROUND TEN FEET, THEN USE CORRAGATED SHEETS AS OPPOSED TO THE 26 GA. METAL, YOU MIGHT GET BY FOR THE TEN GRAND, BUT IT WILL BE CLOSE.HOPE THIS HELPS, GOOD LUCK

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