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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

filters

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Leo B

04-08-2005 17:46:36




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I have always run original equipment filters on all my equipment but the local dealer that I bought just about all my stuff from closed and I hate driving 50 miles to the next dealer to get filters. I'm hearing that Fram and Wix filters are junk. Is this true and if so what is a good brand of filters? Thanks for your time.




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tlak

04-09-2005 11:23:28




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 Re: filters in reply to Leo B, 04-08-2005 17:46:36  
The oil study link labels Fram as pretty bad. I quit using them after I read the study. Actually thats all I used for the last 15-20 yrs with no know problems but with everything going chinese or cost cutting you really don't know what your getting. Even if its labeled good one day they might change it on you the next. I did notice a rise in oil pressure on everything I changed to a better brand.

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Jerry/MT

04-09-2005 20:33:56




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 Re: filters in reply to tlak, 04-09-2005 11:23:28  
Respectfully the guy that did this study has no experience in designing oil filters and he says so. I don't understand why this is sited as a believable reference?



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tlak

04-10-2005 06:27:02




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 Re: filters in reply to Jerry/MT, 04-09-2005 20:33:56  
I guess because thats all thats out there. Alot of people in this trend say cut it open and look, well he did. A lot of stuff he writes about is looking and common sense. If it looks cheap it probably is. Works for me.



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tlak

04-10-2005 04:59:23




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 Re: filters in reply to Jerry/MT, 04-09-2005 20:33:56  
I guess because thats all thats out there. Alot of people in this trend say cut it open and look, well he did. A lot of stuff he writes about is looking and common sense. If it looks cheap it probably is. Works for me.



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Paul in Mich

04-09-2005 08:46:27




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 Re: filters in reply to Leo B, 04-08-2005 17:46:36  
Wix filters: Si, Fram filters: No. All you have to do is cut one of each in half and draw your own conclusion. Wix will do the job of OEM, but for less money in most cases. The main thing is to replace filters regularly, regardless of manufacturer. They are a small price to pay to keep dirt and other foreign matter away from critical components. Dirty filters, in time lose their effectiveness, so skimping isn"t worth it.

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gcs

04-09-2005 07:15:29




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 Re: filters in reply to Leo B, 04-08-2005 17:46:36  
Link
Check out the filter study above, most filters are made by a few companys with different markings.
The cheap AC filter was rated pretty darn good, almost as good as the expensive premium filters.



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T_Bone

04-09-2005 07:12:49




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 Re: filters in reply to Leo B, 04-08-2005 17:46:36  
Hi Leo,

The easiest way I solved this decision was to buy a couple different filter brands that I thought I liked, good reputation, and one cheapy brand, then cut the top off and compare the inside results.

For less than $20, I had my answer as it's very easy to see the difference between filter brands.

From my past filter experience in HVAC, a pleated filter design has alot better filtering qualitys in both liquids and air. As to check valves, bypass valves, just look to see there made to seal and again it's easy to spot the difference of a bad or poor quality design.

With OEM filters at a resonable cost and available about anywhere, it's really hard to beat them in both quality and price from what I have found. I didn't use OEM filters in the past because of cost and availabilty.

Are there better filters than OEM? Sure but usually at twice the cost. Next question, will I get twice the life out of my engines because of the better filter? Nope and it really doesn't matter if they did on road vehicles as the body and other componets will wear out before the engine does with cheap filters. My experience of using cheap Fram filters over the past 35yrs.

I also look at how often I need to change the filters. If I change filters twice a year whats another $20yr in cost for the very best.

A good rule of thumb, any filter that claims a better "flow" rate in either air or liquid, vs a OEM filter, has a very poor filtering ability.

T_Bone

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dr.sportster

04-09-2005 05:13:59




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 Re: filters in reply to Leo B, 04-08-2005 17:46:36  
Hastings filters pickup the smallest micron particles of any filter.Inside a Hastings filter is a cotton like material not paper.



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Scott Green

04-09-2005 05:05:20




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 Re: filters in reply to Leo B, 04-08-2005 17:46:36  
Leo , I like the looks and ferformance of the AGCO filters , which I use on my Oliver 770. Come to find out , the NAPA GOLD series is the same exact filter. So now , for the most part , I use the NAPA GOLD , due to convenience. If I'm around an AGCO dealer , I could buy the AGCO filter for $1.00 less than the NAPA GOLD filter.



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J. Schwiebert

04-09-2005 04:55:00




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 Re: filters in reply to Leo B, 04-08-2005 17:46:36  
Send me a U.S. mail adress and I will send you some information on filters, materials etc. I use it in my hydraulic class. Also read the last Farm Journal. It has a good article on fuel filters.



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Leland

04-08-2005 20:26:24




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 Re: filters in reply to Leo B, 04-08-2005 17:46:36  
Leo nothing wrong with wix filters the company I worked for used them in there entire fleet and some of the detroits went well over a million miles using those filters. Baldwin is also a good filter also ,but buy a wix and then cut it open along with one of your OEM filters you will see which is the best the wix in my book. puralater makes a lot of these filters for different equipment companys as I found out when picking loads of them up at warehouse in ST Louis.

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Davis In SC

04-08-2005 20:12:31




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 Re: filters in reply to Leo B, 04-08-2005 17:46:36  
There was a TSB for Dodge/Cummins trucks. It said that the high oil pressure & flow could damage cheap filters, & bits of element could plug piston cooling orfices, causing scuffing & piston/ Bore failure.....



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Leo B

04-08-2005 19:54:49




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 Re: filters in reply to Leo B, 04-08-2005 17:46:36  
I wanted opinions because the local carquest store sells Wix filters. I bought my first the other day for my Agco 5670 and the Wix looked identical to the Agco filter. Also I have a 100-90 Hesston tractor and the filter number is the same from both Agco and NH. One time I even got an Agco brand filter for this tractor from the NH dealer in a NH box.



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Hurst

04-09-2005 07:15:45




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 Re: filters in reply to Leo B, 04-08-2005 19:54:49  
Just so you know, all Carquest premium filters are manufactured by Wix, so they should look the same. We have used Napa Gold and Carquest Premium filters on all our tractors and farm trucks with out a problem. For oil we use Carquest natural oil in all the vehicles, which is ashland oil, who is owned by the same people as marathon, and its much less than marathon or ashland oil. Our 7610 got its first rebuild this year (its and 86 modle)and this is a turbo tractor, so its even harder on oil than a natural. This tractor gets a lot of use on it too, its the plowing tractor, batwinging tractor, disking tractor, etc. So what I am saying is the same thing all the others are saying, keep the oil changes up and you will be fine. The OEM filters are normally either manufatured by the same people as aftermarket filters or are very similar. In my opinion, OEM parts are a rip off, since the aftermarket filters clearly state on the box "meet or exceed OEM standarts", so how can a farmer these days afford to buy OEM filters for double of what carquest and Napa sell them for? Also, none of these filters will void your warrenty if the aftermarket place carries them yet, which may be your case, since a lot of newer equipment filters are not avalible aftermarket for a while, which was the case for our NH TN65

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Rod F.

04-08-2005 19:39:47




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 Re: filters in reply to Leo B, 04-08-2005 17:46:36  
FleetGuard and wix are two of my favorites. I generally use mostly OEM for the tractors. NewHolland OEM is now supplied by FleetGuard. I have heard some people complain about the filter media in Baldwin filters coming apart, but haven't seen it personally. Using good oil and changing it within the recomended interval is more important. BTW, I have found that for the most part, the OEM filters are actually cheaper than buying a name brand like FG, or Wix. Go with whatever turns your crank, I guess.
Take care.

Rod

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kyhayman

04-08-2005 19:04:28




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 Re: filters in reply to Leo B, 04-08-2005 17:46:36  
Call the 50 mile away dealer and see if they will ship filters to you on a credit card. I use Wix (local NAPA became an Auto Value and that is what they carry) for oil but use OEM for hydraulic and other stuff. I call the dealer once a year and have them ship me enough for the year plus 1 spare, costs $8 to ship a dozen filters, I cant drive 60 miles round trip for that.



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Dug

04-08-2005 18:36:55




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 Re: filters in reply to Leo B, 04-08-2005 17:46:36  
Just change it when it's supposed to be changed and you'll have no problems regardless of which brand you buy.

Dug



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NC Wayne

04-08-2005 18:36:08




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 Re: filters in reply to Leo B, 04-08-2005 17:46:36  
Don't believe the hype about OEM filters being better than all the others. In fact most of them are being made for the various OEM's by Fram, WIX, etc. I work on construction equipment for a living and all of my vehicles as well as the majority of my customers are all running NAPA filters which are made mainly by WIX. I've got a friend that went into a filter plant several years back. He said the filters came off the actual assembly part of the line and then went for their markings. Coming out of that part of the line he then said you could see the breaks in the line where they changed colors because they were being marked/painted differently and marketed under several different names. All that said, I have yet to see a piece of equipment suffer a lube related problem that could be attributed to the brand of filter the customer was running. Over the years I've cut open just about every brand out there from NAPA to AutoZone to WIX to whatever, and have yet to see one name brand that really looked all that different than another. Heck we still do alot of work on the old Detroit and Murphy diesels. The Murphys use sock type filters exclusively and the older Detroits use the socks while the newer ones have spin ons or pleated cartridge types. None of the sock types even have a micron rating like most spin ons do. This tells me if the micron rating was all that important to the life of an engine then these engines that I see that have run for 30 plus years without problems should have been dead long ago. The main thing you need to worry about is running a quality lubricant, beyond that as long as you have run some type of filter and keep it serviced properly your machine will last as long as the guy spending 4 times as much to run the OEM named filters. One last for instance and I'll leave it with you. Just got done rebuilding a 3306 for a man. He uses NAPA filters on all of his equipment along with what I consider to be one of the best oils on the market. After running for twelve years, til electrolosis necessitated this rebuild, the crank checked at standard and did not need to be turned undersize. This is nearly unheard of for an engine running under the conditions it does and for that length of time. That leads me back to what I said before, a good oil along with good service practices make more difference than the name on the filter..... ...Just my .02

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JR in TX

04-08-2005 18:17:31




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 Re: filters in reply to Leo B, 04-08-2005 17:46:36  
If wix filters are junk I would love to know what a good one is. Not to come out sounding like a wise guy, but when I was in the parts business that is what I recommended. I also use them on every thing I have. Fram,yea,they can keep those though. Most dealer filters are somebodies relabel anyways. I wouldn't think twice about getting a wix close by and you'll probably get better filtration. Well, good luck with whichever you choose.

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Davis In SC

04-08-2005 18:26:07




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 Re: filters in reply to JR in TX, 04-08-2005 18:17:31  
I always considered Wix to be a quality filter... Fleetgard is a quality filter, also



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