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Hydrolic dump trailer

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Claude

04-09-2005 15:29:42

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I'm looking to buy a 4' x 8' hydrolic dump trailer (approx. 1 1/2 ton to 2 tons) to work with my old Massey Harris Colt 1954. Last year I had an hydrolic outlet coupling added to the existing system to operate a cement mixer on my 3 point attachment. I assume that the same outlet will also be able to activate the dump trailer as well.

Am I over optimistic about this ? Will the hydrolic system be able to lift the trailer ? How do I calculate the capacity of the tractor to lift the trailer ?

Thanks for your help

Claude

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Hurst

04-10-2005 06:45:20

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Re: Hydrolic dump trailer in reply to Claude, 04-09-2005 15:29:42

We have a homesteader 14,000 lbs rated dump trailer that has twin cylinders. It came with an electric hydraulic pump that ran the 2 cylinders, and boy was that thing slow (what would you expect with 2 3" diameter cylenders)? Anyway, we got tired of that and bypassed the electric pump and hooked up the tractor's hydraulics straight to the dump wagon. It still works great, but that is with a 6610, 7610, and TN65 fords adn newholland. My suggestion is to get either an engine mouted hydraulic pump with a seperate resavor, that way you can have a seperate system. The other option I would consider would be a PTO mounted hydraulic pump. These will probably be harder to find in a salvage yard, but easier to take on and off. The only reason I don't like electric pumps is because the electrical system can be an expensive nightmare. The chargers, marine batteries, and all the other bells and whistles they put on them anymore are pricy. Ours would only dump about 3 times on a new battery, but the cylenders where double acting. Anyway, my point, stay away from electrical systems unless you will use it on a truck (one that can pull it :)). Good luck and let me know if you need any help.

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04-09-2005 23:30:40

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Re: Hydrolic dump trailer in reply to Claude, 04-09-2005 15:29:42

You can raise any amount of weight with any amount of pressure....the more weight for a given pressure the more cylinder area needed and the slower the ram will extend since you are pumping more volume into a larger cavity. For instance: 1000 psi will develop a force of 3,1416 pounds at the ram of a 2" dia. cylinder (1000 x pi x radius squared) while a 4" cylinder will develop 12,566 of force at the same pressure. If the self contained electric systems commonly used on dump trailers use a 2000 psi pump and your tractor is only developing 1000 psi then you will need twice the cylinder area (NOT twice the diameter) to accomplish the same lifting ability with the reduced pressure. If you build from scratch figure the force that you require, measure the psi of your hydraulic system and then calculate the size of the piston required....add a 'fudge factor ' ( I like 10 to 20 per cent) and you should be good to go.

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Claude

04-10-2005 03:35:19

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Re: Hydraulic dump trailer in reply to mj, 04-09-2005 23:30:40

The existing hydraulic outlet for the cement mixer is a single action, I assume the dump trailer will also work on that.

I've checked for my old Colt specs and found this for the hydraulic lift:

7 1/4 gpm delivery at 1070 psi operating pressure; 3" inside diameter; 6 3/16" piston stroke; max. piston force 4800 lbs.;

Also the tractor's hydraulic tank capacity is 7 quarts.

I guess I have to check with the dump trailer specs, which I don't have right now besides it being a �small 4x8 ft dump trailer� made in 2002 and hydraulic operated.

No brakes on the trailer, and.. a little left on the tractor, but I dont intend to go on the road much often and its all flat areas around the farm.

All in all what I understand is that, assuming the tractor have enough hydraulic liquid to fill the trailer's cylinder (s), it will lift the trailer all right, but the speed of the lifting could be slow if the load is heavy.

There again I have to check with the seller's specs for the trailer, mainly for cylinder (s) oil capacity.

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buickanddeere

04-10-2005 15:55:11

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Re: Hydraulic dump trailer in reply to Claude, 04-10-2005 03:35:19

I can't get comfortable with the combination of tractor,brakes and weight. We in the emergency services have heard it all before about "not going on the road, not very fast, going slow, no hills, don't need that shield or cover on there etc, etc, etc. It's drain on us finding broken torn bloody messes in around and under equipment, trees buildings etc. That used to be parents, children or other bystanders. We keep hearing, " we always did it like that, it was just temporary, we were in a hurry, just going to do it that way once etc..... .... Fix the tractor brakes and get working electric brakes on the trailer. Or live longer/better pushing a wheel barrow.

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Claude

04-11-2005 09:56:25

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Re: Hydraulic dump trailer and security in reply to buickanddeere, 04-10-2005 15:55:11

Thank you for your security concerns Buickanddeere, I take good note of your comments in this particular case and I also think they must be on everyone�s mind anytime a vehicle or tool is used. Not only this state of mind is important in under-financed environments may it be at the farm, at (self-) work or even simply at home, but it is also, in my view, a key factor for health in well financed and optimally equipped situations. In other words yes a top shape fully functional tool regardless of the cost is a huge plus to security, but even the most sophisticated security device will never replace the awareness of the operator and its ability to be conscious of safety as a whole in a given situation.

Raising security concerns toward someone who plans to pull around the farm a 1,5 ton trailer not equipped with brakes, with an old tractor that probably has 50% breaking capacity left, on flat grounds and at a maximum speed of 4.61 MPH (3rd gear speed on a Massey-Harris, my 4th gear just wouldn�t pull that load) is a valuable advice and its just fine from you to do so. But for the rest, Buickanddeere, deciding if I should have brakes installed on the trailer or else if I should use a wheel barrow to move the stuff around, don�t worry so much, there are chances that I could be better placed than anybody else to see the different aspects involved, including your concerns, and take the proper decisions to minimize the risks.

Thanks again

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jhill

04-10-2005 06:12:59

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Re: Hydraulic dump trailer in reply to Claude, 04-10-2005 03:35:19

Your assumption is not correct. your tractor output pressure is low compared to modern tractors. If the cylinder diameter is too small you may not be able to lift it. You may need to change the cylinder to a larger diameter.

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04-09-2005 23:34:12

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Re: Hydrolic dump trailer in reply to mj, 04-09-2005 23:30:40

Ooooops! The 3,1416 pounds should read 3,141.6 pounds...forgot the decimal point.

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buickanddeere

04-09-2005 21:46:21

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hydraulic hydraulic hydraulic Re: Hydrolic dump in reply to Claude, 04-09-2005 15:29:42

Does the hydraulic ( no "o" in hydraulic ) ram on this dump trailer have the capability of a two-way/two hose connection? How are you going to handle this trailer when it weighs more empty than your tractor. Any brakes? Ah, for a dollar for everytime hydraulic is misspelled on the ytmag site.

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Creston Cowboy

04-09-2005 20:40:42

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Re: Hydrolic dump trailer in reply to Claude, 04-09-2005 15:29:42

an other option is to find an old 1 ton truck with box and hoist, cut the cab off and make into a trailer. You can power it from tractor hyd, but if not strong enough you could run a self contained pump,tank, valve which would be powered from your tractors pto . might be cheaper and not so hard on your tractors hyd.

just a thought.

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jhill

04-09-2005 20:10:00

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Re: Hydrolic dump trailer in reply to Claude, 04-09-2005 15:29:42

I would be most concerned about the pressure your tractor can generate. Many of the older tractors would not generate more than 1500 psi. My hydraulic dump trailer pump generates 2800 PSI.

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Ray

04-09-2005 19:37:18

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Re: Hydrolic dump trailer in reply to Claude, 04-09-2005 15:29:42

Why not buy a trailer with a self contained electric pump,then you won"t need the tractor
hydraulics.

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MEz25

04-09-2005 19:02:55

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Re: Hydrolic dump trailer in reply to Claude, 04-09-2005 15:29:42

I myself ran into a similar problem with my skid steer and connecting a log splitter ram directly to it in order to operate the splitter from the forks of the machine. If I give the steps i took it may solve your problem. First you have to crosse-reference the total hydralic output of your machine, based on books and its pump capacity. Then you have to deteremine whether or not there will be enough fluid in the system to fill the rams, which should all be together in the book. Then ask the dealer that you are buying the trailer from what the specs are on the rams that power the unit and you should have all of your questions answered. Oh and don't forget to check you hose couplings and use the proper hose to construct them. Hope this helps.

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