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Earth Day

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37 chief

04-22-2005 21:19:07




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Here is some more garbage from the tree hugger group. I don't know hou your state handles this day, but it is a big thing here in Calif, at lease where I live.I think we should celibrate this day by starting to drill for oil in Alaska. Stan in calif.




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dr.sportster

04-23-2005 11:24:45




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 Re: Earth Day in reply to 37 chief, 04-22-2005 21:19:07  
Hey Cheif,New subject.How is the new or rebuilt Chevrolet motor running??



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37 chief

04-23-2005 21:18:43




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 Re: Earth Day in reply to dr.sportster, 04-23-2005 11:24:45  
I got it running, set timing. the owner came and picked it up. Saw it a week later, still running ok.Oil pressure was not really any different, a little on the low side, but within chevy specs. I haven't seen it or the owner since, that was about 5 weeks ago. Also haven't seen the remaining 900.00 due on the repair. The owner is good for it, just a little slow.Stan in calif.



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PhilGA

04-23-2005 10:06:38




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 Re: Earth Day in reply to 37 chief, 04-22-2005 21:19:07  
It is rather pathetic that an issue of concern to all people can't be discussed (argued about, if you like) without the comments denigrating to personal attacks i.e. "your an idiot..." Puts me in mind of trying to reason/discuss things with a teenager or younger person who only hears one side of anything. Takes all kinds, I guess and we certainly have all kinds in the good old USA.



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Galen

04-23-2005 09:52:33




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 Re: Earth Day in reply to 37 chief, 04-22-2005 21:19:07  
I planted 18 trees just this morning - gave each a nice little bear hug right before I stuck 'em in the ground. I feel sooooo oo good! Peace, Baby!



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Leland

04-23-2005 08:42:46




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 Re: Earth Day in reply to 37 chief, 04-22-2005 21:19:07  
With out some of these wacko's the air would be worse and the lakes and rivers would be so poluted that the fish would be a memorey, and drill all you want for oil the sooner we use it all up we will have a cleaner and cheaper source of fuel to use. It's not a bad thing to want clean air and good water to drink but what do most people from Califorina know anyway.



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Paul in Mich

04-23-2005 15:43:39




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 Re: Earth Day in reply to Leland, 04-23-2005 08:42:46  
Leland, We"ll have cleaner but maybe not cheaper fuel when you and everyone else is willing to pay for it. Have you stopped to think that electric cars depend on coal to operate the powerplant from which the clean electricity comes? Cleaner burning internal combustion engines will come, and they would sell like hot cakes right now if people were willing to pay for the cost of running them, but so far gasolene must still be cheap enough that it ain"t gonna happen soon. California is indeed part of the fuel shortage problem as the additive mandates required to make California fuel creates a bottleneck in the refining industry. They don"t mind buying fuel from out of state, but damned if they will allow a refinery inside their state. Yes, I ask the same question, What do most Californians know anyway? It wasnt wacos that got things cleaned up, it was sensable people working together to improve how we dispose of our waste. The wacos have nothing to offer but tree hugging and PETA principles. Name one positive suggestion comming from one of the wacos. One that everyone can live with. They have none. Thats why we call them wacos.

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dr.sportster

04-23-2005 19:28:31




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 Re: Earth Day in reply to Paul in Mich, 04-23-2005 15:43:39  
I think they took care of waco,calm down.



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Leland

04-23-2005 17:52:08




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 Re: Earth Day in reply to Paul in Mich, 04-23-2005 15:43:39  
Paul I am burning a cleaner and cheaper fuel E-85 , and as far as coal go now the newer plants going on line emit very little smoke or other nasty things in to the air any more our's just spits out steam. But the reason we still heavly denpend on oil is that the oil companys buy up everything that we could use for cleaner energy and hide it until the time comes that they can exploit it for there own gains. the ILL gas companys are throwing a fit about E-85 and clain if they got same break that gas would be .75 per gallon I find this hard to belive since wholesale on gas is now 1.50 +or- a few cents. It's all about greed.

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Paul in Mich

04-23-2005 20:27:29




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 Re: Earth Day in reply to Leland, 04-23-2005 17:52:08  
I agree, its all about greed. Toi me greed is state and federal government taxes on a gallon of fuel being more than we paid for the whole danged gallon 20 years ago. They confiscate more than the "greedy" oil companies do, and they don"t even have to be accountable to stockholders (tax payers). Yes, would say that greed pervades the oil industry. Hell, every government official and his brother has his hands in the till except the President. And he made his money in the oil business. If it cost as much to produce a bottle of water that we are more than willing to pay $1.00 per litre for as it dies to produce a gallon of gasolene, perhaps we might become as outraged over the price of water as we do gas, but the brutal fact is that everyone is more than willing to allow the water bottle company to make a disgusting profit and not even question his profit picture while railing unmercifully on the oil companies as being thieves. Looks to me the wrong people are being called thieves. We have E-85 bio fuel here too, but have you tried burning it in the winter time and dealing with its gelling problem? It aint the be all, end all as some would suggest. This is comming from a guy who would welcome a booming market in soybeans.

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Leland

04-23-2005 21:46:14




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 Re: Earth Day in reply to Paul in Mich, 04-23-2005 20:27:29  
Paul I am confused how does a 85% mix of alcohol and 15% gas gell that is what E-85 is or are you talking of biodiesel?



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Paul in Mich

04-24-2005 07:28:54




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 Re: Earth Day in reply to Leland, 04-23-2005 21:46:14  
Leland, I stand corrected. Must have been half asleep as my brain was pluging E-85 into biodiesel. Yes, we could stsnd to use more Ethanol blends. I think here in Michigan its 90% 10%. Anyway, however you cut it, I can"t for the life of me understand how folks will gladly pay $1.00 for that bottle of water @ $8.00 per gallon when all they really do is run it out of a tap, and complain about the greed of oil companies who have to transport the crude, blend it to every stats individual specs, transport it again, store it, transport it to the dealer, get the holy living crap taxed out of it, and end up making a fraction of what the water bottler makes per gal. Yes, it is more expensive, but in all reality, fuel is cheaper today than it was at 30 cents per gal. It takes less percentage of our income to pay for it now than it did 35 years ago. We didnt gripe then, we didnt call the oil companies crooks then, so how can we deny them a profit today? I still say that the greediest people that affect our lives today is our legislators who continue to tax, tax, and tax with no restraints or accountability. Those thieves are the ones we should be having issues with. The corruption starts and ends right there, period.

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Bill(Wis)

04-23-2005 07:45:47




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 Re: Earth Day in reply to 37 chief, 04-22-2005 21:19:07  
Come to think of it, I remember the advent of Earth Day. Our Grand Commissar Gaylord Nelson claimed it was his idea and all of his little red diaper doper babies took off with it as their cause of the moment. Or maybe it was the other way around. Doesn't matter, they'll all be dead soon ponytails and all. Thank God the younger generations see through their BS.



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Bill(Wis)

04-23-2005 07:14:42




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 Re: Earth Day in reply to 37 chief, 04-22-2005 21:19:07  
I love the environment. It's the envionmentalists I can't stand.



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Coloken

04-23-2005 06:41:31




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 Re: Earth Day in reply to 37 chief, 04-22-2005 21:19:07  
Please don't confuse earth day with the idiots. The invirment needs all the help it can get. There are nuts out on the edge in both directions. Real farmers are the best friend the invirment has. Real sportsmen/hunters are the best friends wildlife has.



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Errin OH

04-23-2005 06:39:31




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 Re: Earth Day in reply to 37 chief, 04-22-2005 21:19:07  
Well chief you get my vote. Don't have much use for them. I did hear a funny thing the other day. Earth day happens to fall on the same day the commies celebrate communism.

Coincidence?

"In 1955, then Soviet Premier, Nikita Krushchev ordered April 22nd be designated a day to celebrate Communism. In 1970, it was chosen to be Earth Day by Gaylord Nelson, one of the founders of the event. Those founders had 365 days from which to choose. They chose Lenin's birthday."

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Alberta Mike

04-23-2005 06:20:11




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 Re: Earth Day in reply to 37 chief, 04-22-2005 21:19:07  
Be it tree huggers or governments, they are constantly taking hits for their stands which many of us think ridiculous. I would have to agree with many of the posts below which remind us about just what state the planet would be in now if someone (or some government) hadn't stepped in somewhere along the way and said "look, this has gotta change". Kioto for example, sure it's expensive but somehow I've got to believe that even though the Earth's climate change is a natural thing, how can anyone claim that man's pollution of the atmosphere hasn't made some effect on global warming? If we can do something (anything) then we've got to do it in my opinion. Although I probably wouldn't dress up as a tree or a flower, or chain myself to a bulldozer, if someone wants to do that to make their point then go ahead, it doesn't bother me at all. What really bothers me is this constant reference to government wanting to ruin my life. I don't think that's their agenda.

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thurlow

04-23-2005 06:18:26




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 Re: Earth Day in reply to 37 chief, 04-22-2005 21:19:07  
If your political leanings are toward the Libertian/rights of the individual, as opposed to the extremists who inhabit the far right or far left of the 2 major political parties, you owe it to yourself to check out the Federalist Patriot; it's an on-line newspaper and it's free.



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Mark - IN.

04-23-2005 05:35:08




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 Re: Earth Day in reply to 37 chief, 04-22-2005 21:19:07  
At the risk of standing up and going down the tubes with you, I do think that you are correct in being cautious of one's motives. True, is nothing wrong with being environmentally concious, and it's a good thing, but that doesn't mean you, I, or anyone else should settle for some clueless goofball dressing up as a tree and marching their elementry school kids dressed as flowers over to our places and pointing at the 5020 or whatever we have and pointing "Bad person pollutes the air and tears up the ground". Too many folks have bent over and settled in for that.

Nothing wrong with being earth concious, but nothing wrong suspicious about motives either Cheif, nothing at all.

Mark

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dr.sportster

04-23-2005 05:29:36




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 Re: Earth Day in reply to 37 chief, 04-22-2005 21:19:07  
Cheif, Im no treehugger but Id like to eats lots of tuna without mercury poisoning.You California guys are understandably upset about all the crazy emmisions laws.China is burning so much plastic [to get scrap metals]that its contaminating the North pole and putting PCBs[polychlorinated biphenals] into children up far north.Stop listening to that dope addict Rush Limball if thats where your getting info on the envoirment.There is true need for some concern.Not my opinion its a fact.

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Galen

04-23-2005 05:10:38




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 Re: Earth Day in reply to 37 chief, 04-22-2005 21:19:07  
There is a difference between being environmentally friendly, and being a tree hugger. Everyone needs to be more environmentally friendly, Tree Huggers are like PETA - they don't realize how stupid they really are. Why not drill in the ANR? We already own it. Oh - I'm also for shooting cats in Wisconsin (among other places). Just my opinion!



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tlak

04-23-2005 04:27:21




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 Re: Earth Day in reply to 37 chief, 04-22-2005 21:19:07  
Your an idiot. Even the fish and wildlife people are raising arms against the present political policies because these policies are hurting sport and game fishing and hunting. If you drill in Alaska the oils there will not even be available for five or more years and then its a drop in the bucket. There are extremist in every movement, like you for example, Let's cut the redwoods down and drill in Alaska. China is not even part of the oil conflict. They just started importing a few yaers ago. They have been using their own crude. They use about as much as Italy. Gas prices are high because Bush wants his oil buddies to drill in Alaska and the high prices scare the public in to thinking we are short of oil.

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Paul in Mich

04-23-2005 13:42:45




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 Re: Earth Day in reply to tlak, 04-23-2005 04:27:21  
You been reading Pravda again? No shread of truth in anythinng you said....all propaganda by environmentalists who"s concern is NOT nor or EVER been the environment. It has ALWAYS been to render the USA impotent. You doubt it, ask yourself why they dont target other countries as they do America. I think you misplaced the use of the word idiot, even though it wasnt directed at me. You continue to amaze me with your lack of knowledge and understanding. The best you can do is call 37 Chief an idiot. Tsk, tsk, tsk.

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Paul in Mich

04-23-2005 13:42:43




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 Re: Earth Day in reply to tlak, 04-23-2005 04:27:21  
You been reading Pravda again? No shread of truth in anythinng you said....all propaganda by environmentalists who"s concern is NOT nor or EVER been the environment. It has ALWAYS been to render the USA impotent. You doubt it, ask yourself why they dont target other countries as they do America. I think you misplaced the use of the word idiot, even though it wasnt directed at me. You continue to amaze me with your lack of knowledge and understanding. The best you can do is call 37 Chief an idiot. Tsk, tsk, tsk.

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tlak

04-23-2005 14:56:19




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 Re: Earth Day in reply to Paul in Mich, 04-23-2005 13:42:43  
First thing that came to mind and pondered over deleting, figure it would cause a reaction like Chief's remark.
I don't believe everything I hear but each of the things I posted were in the news and the fish/wildlife story was on an AG show. I don't have some special powers of observation or a little bird to tell me different but these stories have validity with common sense.
Didn't remember the problem from the AG show.
Their cutting old growth redwoods. Thought I might like to see them before I bite the big one, if their still there.
Don't know the expert on the news show that stated Chinas oil use but looked up on the Net on my own curiosity and ran across a chart of their oil exports/imports vs own use and the chart started with them using their own and having some export and a few years ago the lines crossed to them using all theirs to importing some. The so called expert said their use was not any greater than Italy's.
On another news show they tell of the Gov. not getting much of a return to nothing for letting companies mine, cut, etc. on our properties.
The last one; our Gov. has always used some scare tactic to get the public to do what they want= WMD, SS.
I'm not going to list sources or write down who I saw on TV to justify myself for your broad statement of "all propaganda by environmentalists". They would have had to take over all the news and Ag channels.

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Paul in Mich

04-23-2005 15:27:49




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 Re: Earth Day in reply to tlak, 04-23-2005 14:56:19  
They may not have "taken over" the news or the ag channels, but I can assure you that they have infiltrated them, as has been their objective for over 60 years. And Yes, they have tazken over some news services. I also have a problem with govt owning property in the first place. And the problem gets larger as they assume more and more acerage. Timber is a renewable rescource, and the government has no business hoarding it. Worse yet, is the fact that government pays no taxes on the property they own, but we the people must pay for any upkeep or maintanence of such property. There is nothing wrong with companies harvesting timber. Even old growth redwoods will survive better if selective harvesting is performed. our forrests are now way too dense, and direly need thinned so that new trees can grow. Density has been more detrimental to hardwoods than any lumbering. Trees are great, but they are as I said a renewable rescource, not a static comodity. Lumbering companies and the timber industry do not sijmply cut and leave, they cut and plant. It is their life line. Do not be fooled by those who say our forests are being decimated, and you should be suspect of those who think that goverhnment ownership of land and forests are a good thing. They are one of the worst trends taking place as public ownership is replacing private ownership of land and property and that is bad for everyone. And drilling will NOT adversly affect the wildlife any more than the laying of the Alaska pipeline. I remember that the environmentalists were having a coniption fit when the Alaska pipeline was being built, saying that the caribu and moose would dwindle as their breeding and feeding grounds were being infringed upon, Well, how wrong they were as the caribu and moose are in far greater numbers now than before the pipeline. Anwar is no different, and drilling would take place on the northern portion which is not in the heart of the wildlife refuge. i"m sure you can find anything inon the net to substantiate your position, but that doesnt make it factual. Be ever suspicious of these activists who will say anything or print anything or do anythinig to further their cause. They are no more legitimate than PETA and other wacos. Conservation is legitimate, and worthwhile, and we can all practice it, but I stand by my statement that environmentalism is anything but a noble cause. It is aimed at the USA. If it were legitimate, the same people would put the same pressure on the rest of the world, but they dont. And while the USA is the biggest user of fossle fuel, we are also the largest producer of goods and services in the world. We provide the world with more labor saving and life enhancing means than anyone. Take note of how many other countries are comming under siege of the environmentalists, then ask what their motives are. Its all about rendering America impotent. Nothing more, nothing less. Be ye not decieved by these morons. Oh btw, I don"t need Bush or Rush to be able to figure it out for myself.

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Barry M. Enema

04-23-2005 07:23:35




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 Re: Earth Day in reply to tlak, 04-23-2005 04:27:21  
No, tlak, you're the idiot. You don't even know the the difference between "your" and "you're". Can't even get the first word and have it correct. You turned this thread into a political one. And, as usual, you're on the wrong side.



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tlak

04-23-2005 09:21:05




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 Re: Earth Day in reply to Barry M. Enema, 04-23-2005 07:23:35  
When he stated a broad inflammatory statement, I just gave him what he was after. If drilling in Alaska isn't political then what is it? I didn't start the Alaska thing.
If you follow the jest of this thrend I don't think too many are for destroying our environment.
Come on, tell me, what has Bush done that your so proud of?



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tlak

04-23-2005 11:59:09




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 Re: Earth Day in reply to Barry M. Enema, 04-23-2005 11:31:32  
Thats all you got, whether I spell or punctuate properly. Once again slowly, whaat will be Bush's legacy?



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Uh-huh

04-23-2005 19:19:09




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 Re: Earth Day in reply to tlak, 04-23-2005 11:59:09  
1. He's united the Shias and the Sunnis... against us.

2. He's restored Afghanistan as the leading opium exporter in the world.

3. He's treated our military and veterans like an outhouse catalog.

4. He's modernized our language... "Clean Air Initiative" = Increase in allowable emmisions. "No child left behind" = Less money for the children/districts who really need it... more money for testing corporations. "Tax reform" = Huge tax breaks for millionaires and corporation. 5. He's given hateful, prejuditial people someone they can relate to.

6. He's intermingled truth with lies to the point where a lot of otherwise reasonable people can't tell the difference.

7. He's made the world hate us.

8. He's mortgaged our future by trillions of dollars and assured fiscal disaster is in our future.

9. He's rejected science as the basis for fact and replaced it with the notions of fanatics.

... About a thousand more...

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Paul in Mich

04-23-2005 20:33:01




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 Re: Earth Day in reply to Uh-huh, 04-23-2005 19:19:09  
I was wondering when the publishing editor of Pravda would post a reply. Thank you Tovarisch Un Huh for your inciteful plethora of absolute Bull crap. Only a person of your stature would make statements such aas yours and not have the guts to put your name to it. Thanks ,we all needed a good laugh, and you provided just that. Really, you should be ashamed of yourself.



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tlak

04-24-2005 09:35:54




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 Re: Earth Day in reply to Paul in Mich, 04-23-2005 20:33:01  
Paul every point of Un-Huh has been in the news and some things Bush has had to go back and fix because of something he said or did.
Just to pick a few out; Bush was in Europe recently trying to make up to the Euro community, theres always a story about some veteran not getting financial or medical help, and if you don't think hes spent us well into the future sit back and watch.
Thats right your paranoid about the news media so none of this is true.
Why don't you post a counter list to this, Bush's accomplishments.

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Barry M. Enema

04-23-2005 12:05:20




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 Re: Earth Day in reply to tlak, 04-23-2005 11:59:09  
What is this fixation you have with Bush? I don't know what his legacy will be and I don't generally waste much time worrying about things that aren't important. You might be able to do something other than worry about such foolishness if you'd take some Epsom Salts or whatever it takes to rid yourself of whatever it is that is poisoning you.



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tlak

04-23-2005 12:44:29




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 Re: Earth Day in reply to Barry M. Enema, 04-23-2005 12:05:20  
Have a nice day Chief!



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dave from MN

04-23-2005 05:56:56




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 Re: Earth Day in reply to tlak, 04-23-2005 04:27:21  
Oh Please, dont blame Bush. It is supply and demand. The demand is there no matter the price. As long as people are still demanding the price will stay high and increase. I thought all the Bush haters said we went to Irag for oil? Well if that was true, why aint Bush taking it? We need to protect our natural rescources, Lord knows we all have a long way to improve on that, but the nation must also function. I do think Washington should increase pressure on our oil suppliers to work on decreasing costs, but unless we are in control of a country, kinda hard to make them. Every one of us can improve the enviroment. I bet 50% of the people on here plow right up the edge of the lake pond, have a "dump", burn plastic and who knows what. I am installing a filter strip around my pond. I am seeding in wet areas with proper grasses, and I am adding a couple of acres of woodlands. And I am getting assistance from the DNR and state. It will make my property better for me and enviroment. Wish I could do more. I am not ALL for drilling in new areas, but we do have homes to heat and machinery to Fuel. Maybe if Bush started smoking cigars and playing with his interns like some one else, he would be a better pres, right.

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tlak

04-23-2005 06:24:35




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 Re: Earth Day in reply to dave from MN, 04-23-2005 05:56:56  
""Maybe if Bush started smoking cigars and playing with his interns like some one else, he would be a better pres, right""
Maybe so, then he would stop screwing us.
The worst President in history: Coolidge;
Damaged the environment.
Was on the side of Big Business.
Had corruption in his administration.
Accomplishments; none
See any similarities?
What will be Bushs' acomplishments?
We're not getting the Iraq oil because it was already contracted to Germany and France.

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dave from MN

04-23-2005 08:42:57




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 Re: Earth Day in reply to tlak, 04-23-2005 06:24:35  
Not saying Mr Bush is fault free. but like any president, he cant please every one. I believe he has the right morals for America should stand for. He has a pair and makes descision ( as far as it seams) based on what he believes is right, not what the latest news "polls" say he should do. I just find it a little irritatting that Bush gets the bashing by some people for anything he does. The economy did not get bad cause of Bush, it started before him. Jobs have been moving over seas, borders for years, not just since Bush. I sit and listen to my brother in law every weekend blame all the problems on "bush" , cause he sits and listens to his union reps that brain wash him at his work. The issue of this post was Earth Day. Well my statement is "If every one took care of our own little piece of this world like we should, every day would be earth day. Why holler bout a prez when many of us dont even try to live our own lives and care for our land, like we say the prez (whomever it may be) should. As far as my last comment on my last post, it just bugs me what are kids had for a role model. I support Bush now, but that may change as he goes through the next 3 years

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PhilcaseinWPA

04-23-2005 04:19:21




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 Re: Earth Day in reply to 37 chief, 04-22-2005 21:19:07  
On a barn in Eastern Ohio painted on the end (as big as the Mail Pouch logos) are the words "Every day is Earth Day to a farmer"



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Bob

04-22-2005 22:17:01




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 Re: Earth Day in reply to 37 chief, 04-22-2005 21:19:07  
Why drill in the artic, and chance bothering scarce wildlife, when you can have a conflict, involving HUMAN deaths in the desert mideast???



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dr.sportster

04-23-2005 05:34:47




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 Re: Earth Day in reply to Bob, 04-22-2005 22:17:01  
Bob,The war will pay for itself.Now thats not a fact thats the BS we were fed.Didnt Bush ask for more money yesterday.Dig a bigger hole.



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tlak

04-23-2005 05:55:01




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 Re: Earth Day in reply to dr.sportster, 04-23-2005 05:34:47  
Vietnam II. Can you say Quagmire?
They say it takes 100 years to pay off a war. The Civil War was paid off in 1967. So long Social Security.



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Paul in Mich

04-23-2005 14:06:49




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 Re: Earth Day in reply to tlak, 04-23-2005 05:55:01  
Hells, Bells, we"re still paying for the revolutionary war. Does anyone want to say it wasn"t worth it? You could have gone on the cheap, and be speaking German or Japaneese today. Get real, guys, sometimes war is necessary. And it has never been cheap, nor free. It only buys freedom. Even the freedom to carp and complain about how much of YOUR social security it took to pay for it. Isn"t there anything worth fighting or dying for? Maybe for animal rights, huh? Never mind, my sons and grandsons will be honored to put their butts on the line for you and yours.

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Paul in Mich

04-23-2005 20:36:27




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 Re: Earth Day in reply to Paul in Mich, 04-23-2005 14:06:49  
a fitting tribute to "Earth Day". Yeah, I guess I am guilty of getting a little passionate at times. The Missus complains about that too.



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dr.sportster

04-23-2005 19:33:26




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 Re: Earth Day in reply to Paul in Mich, 04-23-2005 14:06:49  
Boy did this turn in to a disaster.



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