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OUTRAGEOUS FUEL PRICES #2

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Rodek Man

05-02-2005 18:56:32

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OKAY PEOPLE...AT LEAST USE YOUR BRAINS AND THINK ABOUT THIS. SHOULD WE NOT BE TRYING TO PUSH "BIO DIESEL"? WHAT IS WRONG WITH HELPING OUT OUR FELLOW FARMERS? HOW BOUT THE USE OF ETHANOL? I WAS OUT IN CARROLL,IA LAST OCTOBER AND A GUY TOLS ME THAT THE LOCAL CO-OP'S HAD OVER 2 MILLION BUSHELS OF SURPLUS CORN. AND GUESS WHAT...IT WAS JUST PILED UP OUTSIDE GETTING WET. SO I TRIED SOME MID GRADE GAS WITH I THINK 20 OR 25% ETHANOL.THAT STUFF WAS GREAT!!! NEXT TIME YOU ARE IN THE GRAINBELT TRY SOME AND HELP A FARMER LIVE A DAY OR SO LONGER!!!!!

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Dale in Ar.

05-03-2005 20:00:38

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Re: OUTRAGEOUS FUEL PRICES #2 in reply to Rodek Man, 05-02-2005 18:56:32

Higher prices for fuel is a concern for all of us but when I read that Exxon and other oil companies have had the highest quarter and a record to boot,that gets me hot.Sure industries are to make a profit but it seems they are rubing our noses in the high prices for fuel.Sure the OPEC can name their prices on the barrel because they know that these refiners will pay what ever they ask and pass it on to us the consumer and we have to have the fuel to make a living.The solution for me is to limit my fuel use ,I bought a small truck that tripled my gas milage and my 8 mile to the gallon ton sets under the tree untill show time or I need to pull my trailer.I try to do two or three trip to town in one trip.We can cut profits if we try.

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26Red

05-03-2005 11:47:19

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Re: OUTRAGEOUS FUEL PRICES #2 in reply to Rodek Man, 05-02-2005 18:56:32

I have been running E85 for the past 1000 miles with no problems (50/50) mix. There is a lot of misconceptions out there about alternative fuels. The public has not been informed well. The price spreads between eathanol is usually 40 cents, north dakota is considering a bill to put that up to 80 cents. If the oil prices get much higher, you can bet the alternative fuels industry is going to boom. If I had the money I would be setting up an ethanol plant right now...until then, I'm thinking of building my own mini ethanol still...totally legal too.

If ya'll are P'O'ed about the price of fuel, do something about it. Buy a fuel efficient car, burn E85, or brew your own ethanol or biodiesel. The truth on alternative fuels is out there, do some research!

Here's to really informative magazines on the industry.

Link

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Ludwig

05-03-2005 10:11:00

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Re: OUTRAGEOUS FUEL PRICES #2 in reply to Rodek Man, 05-02-2005 18:56:32

I think transition to ag based fuels is caused largely because of inertia. People love to come up with reasons things can't work rather than reasons they can.
To my way of thinking E100 and B100 aren't the thing thats going to help us. In the short term its E10 and B20 that will reduce our requirements for oil.
I don't think the biofuels are the whole answer but one piece of a puzzle that includes conservation and government subsidies for things like solar hot water heating and passive solar designed houses. Things like windfarms and solar to produce electricity have a longer payback but anything which reduces our use of oil as a country will help.

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paul

05-03-2005 08:54:31

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Re: OUTRAGEOUS FUEL PRICES #2 in reply to Rodek Man, 05-02-2005 18:56:32

Minnesota has mandated 10% ethanol in gas for years & years. Just passed a new mandate of 20% ethanol by 2012 or so in all gasoline. As well diesel fuel in Minnesota will need to contain 2% bio (soybean) in it by 2007 I believe, ramping up to 5% in the following years.

E85 (15% gasoline, 85% ethanol) is available at many, many gas stations here in Minnesota, would be able to find it every 50 miles or closer where I live. Many newer bigger vehicles can run on that. Currently it is priced at $1.47 a gallon in my town, vs gasoline (10% ethanol of course) at $1.97.

As sulfar is outlawed in diesel fuel, the bio will naturally be needed to add lubricity to the fuel.....

I know a lot of 'city folk' are anti- these bio fuels, but a lot of that seems to come from mis-information about them.

Many farmers are splash blending their own bio-fuel on the farm & using up to 25% in their $200,000 tractor & combines around here, and ethanol has been around for what, over a decade here? If these things work in our harsh climate.....

--->Paul

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T_Bone

05-03-2005 12:48:14

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Re: OUTRAGEOUS FUEL PRICES #2 in reply to paul, 05-03-2005 08:54:31

Hi Paul,

Yep that biodiesel is good stuff. You can also use SVO (straight vegetable oil) at a 2% mix to ULSD to add back the lube quality's.

What really burns me about biodiesel as here in Phoenix it was running about $1.75/gal and now is $2.34gal. B100 raised prices right along with the price of #2D.

Now grain did not raise.

Cost of deliverly did not raise.

Cost of producing biodiesel did not raise.

But yet biodiesel pricing kept pace with dino oil when B100 was making them money at $1.75gal.

Why??? Just because they can price gouge us more as we don't have any control over them!

T_Bone

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Ludwig

05-03-2005 13:38:07

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Re: OUTRAGEOUS FUEL PRICES #2 in reply to T_Bone, 05-03-2005 12:48:14

Cost of delivery did rise, cost of production probably did too.
The rising cost of fuel isn't exactly supply and demand but something like it and biofuels will be just as volitile (unfortunately) as convetional fuel is.
The idea is that the introduction of biofuels will make all fuels a bit less volitile.

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T_Bone

05-03-2005 14:29:30

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Re: OUTRAGEOUS FUEL PRICES #2 in reply to Ludwig, 05-03-2005 13:38:07

Hi Ludwig,

Sorry for posting over the top of your post. I was in the expand mode when I hit reply. I like posting in a chain as then the thread reads best.

If the company was using B100 for fuel as they should be, then there deliverly cost would have been stable.

To make B100, glycerin is removed from the SVO and the glycerin then can be used as a fuel for processing or sold for other things, such as cosmetics, but that market if flooded with gylcerin so prices are down and most are using it for processing fuel.

I would say B100 production cost didn't rise more than $.10gal at best just from what I've been reading. So how come the $.45gal raise? Greed!

T_Bone

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Ludwig

05-03-2005 09:55:11

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Re: OUTRAGEOUS FUEL PRICES #2 in reply to paul, 05-03-2005 08:54:31

For years in New England we weren't allowed to have ethanol. How much sense does that make? So for an oxygenator we got stuck with that stinking MTBE which gives you headaches just from smelling it and pollutes the water to totally undrinkable with just a teeny little spill.
Finally we're using ethanol for our oxygenator and supposedly will start getting E10 sometime soon. We need government mandated use of the stuff to come along to increase production which will reduce costs...
I'm not a fan of big government but it is a good way to push new technology like this.

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26red

05-03-2005 11:28:18

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Re: OUTRAGEOUS FUEL PRICES #2 in reply to Ludwig, 05-03-2005 09:55:11

Actually, the ethanol industry is targeting the north eastern US for it's product. Heard that the other day on the radio. Guess they finally have government approval...

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Joe Evans

05-03-2005 08:23:49

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Re: OUTRAGEOUS FUEL PRICES #2 in reply to Rodek Man, 05-02-2005 18:56:32

I quite agree with Paul. Putting things in perspective, fuel is still comparatively cheap here.

My brother-in-law works in the oil patch in Midland TX. While visiting him last November, I accompanied him on his rounds for a day checking on wells, well maintenance crews, equipment and supply vendors and the like. He even showed me plans for squeezing more juice out of a 20+ year old producing field.

After absorbing all that for a day, I came away with one thought: It's a wonder fuel is as cheap as it is!

Hey, I don't like it either. For sure the higher costs put a damper on our Plow Day activity this year, but now I wonder if it,s because we couldn't get fuel donated this year. Before, we got it at cost (last year $1.50/gal), and before that--FREE! Wonder what participation would have been in years past if we had to shell out for the full cost.

Again, I don't like it either. I'll probably cut back on mowing some to save a little. There are areas of my place that don't need the weekly cut at all. I just like doing it. And the areas that can be seen from the road, well, probably go every week-and-a-half. My big Z-turn doesn't care.

We don't do much on Mom's place--we let an area farmer use the ground. I'll get my tractor operatin' fix this year by helping him burn HIS fuel either by running his stuff or him shelling out gas for the 460.

Fuel cost aren't the only thing affected by crude as we all know. Just priced some new rears for the 460. Ouch!

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get used to it

05-03-2005 06:47:46

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Re: OUTRAGEOUS FUEL PRICES #2 in reply to Rodek Man, 05-02-2005 18:56:32

Come to Australia
1.25 / litre or 5.26 / gallon
you need to attack some more countries to get your fuel price down

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Bret4207

05-04-2005 04:19:27

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Re: OUTRAGEOUS FUEL PRICES #2 in reply to get used to it, 05-03-2005 06:47:46

The worldwide price of crude is more or less the same everywhere. You are paying the taxes your government applies on top of the producers cost. The war has nothing to do with it. When Sydney gets bombed you'll fight back too.

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Alberta Mike

05-03-2005 05:17:23

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Re: OUTRAGEOUS FUEL PRICES #2 in reply to Rodek Man, 05-02-2005 18:56:32

I'm sure you know that typing in CAPITAL LETTERS is considered YELLING by the computer crowd. But maybe you want to yell right? I agree with alternative fuels but the funny thing is about outrageous fuel costs is that almost EVERYTHING ELSE is also outrageous. I mean how can we complain about fuel costs when we have $50000 pickup trucks, $220000 houses of 1200 square feet, fraudulent credit card interest rates, insurance is through the roof, food costs are skyrocketing, and we don't even want to talk about taxes, etc. etc. One thing about fuel though is that we constantly see the price posted on these huge signs on every corner to remind us. And of course we usually fill up once or twice each week. Fact is, EVERYTHING has gone whacko for costs, that's why so many of us are struggling (and our incomes haven't kept up).

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Paul in Mich

05-02-2005 20:11:48

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Re: OUTRAGEOUS FUEL PRICES #2 in reply to Rodek Man, 05-02-2005 18:56:32

I"m a little hard of hearing, but not that hard.....Bio Diesel is ok for summer use, but gells badly in winter, and doesnt store well from what I"ve heard. Its used here in Mid Mich, but on a limited basis because of its problems. Believe me if alternate fuels were efficient, and cost effective, we farmers would be the first to be using them as they would benefit us, but they have drawbacks just as drugs have side effects. Much research is still needed to make ethanol and bio diesel totally feasable. About 10% ethanol is about all that works without creating more problems than it eliminates. First and formost is that as the percentage of ethanol goes up, the lubricating qualities of the fuel goes down. In all actuality, while there are lots of reasons to find alternative fuels, "outrageous price" is not one of them. America enjoys the lowest prices for fuel of any industrial country. Norway which is a heavy exporter of crude, pays over $6.00 per gallon of gasolene. Most European countries pay $4.00 per gallon and higher. Bottom line is "We"re spoiled"!

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Robert in W. Mi.

05-03-2005 15:11:51

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Re: OUTRAGEOUS FUEL PRICES #2 in reply to Paul in Mich, 05-02-2005 20:11:48

You just can't blanket say that the U.S. is getting such a "great deal" on fuel!! Most of the reason fuel cost so much more in european countries is because they are "taxed to death"!!!

They pay up to several dollars per gallon "tax" on there fuel, depending on which country it is!!

Robert

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Paul in Mich

05-03-2005 17:05:43

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Re: OUTRAGEOUS FUEL PRICES #2 in reply to Robert in W. Mi., 05-03-2005 15:11:51

And you think the Libs havent tried to tax fuel to death here? It just hasn"t happened yet. bottom line is that everyone demonizes the Oil companies, but they let the government bilk them out of far more money every day than big business ever dreamed of. Yes, I will say that SO FAR, The U.S. consumer has a giid deal going compared to other countries.

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buickanddeere

05-02-2005 20:23:12

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Re: OUTRAGEOUS FUEL PRICES #2 in reply to Paul in Mich, 05-02-2005 20:11:48

89.9 cents per liter of 87 octane at the pumps today. About 85 cents US for 1.00 Canadian Dollar . 3.78 liters in a US gallon.

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Ludwig

05-03-2005 09:50:47

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Re: OUTRAGEOUS FUEL PRICES #2 in reply to buickanddeere, 05-02-2005 20:23:12

Where'r you? In Halifax its like 94.9 for 87 Octane.

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buickanddeere

05-03-2005 23:33:46

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Re: OUTRAGEOUS FUEL PRICES #2 in reply to Ludwig, 05-03-2005 09:50:47

Ontario. Seen 87 in Waterloo the same day for 83.3 . Bruce County is a an expensive place to purchase fuel of any type.

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cockshutt446

05-02-2005 20:21:11

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Re: OUTRAGEOUS FUEL PRICES #2 in reply to Paul in Mich, 05-02-2005 20:11:48

Just a question here but have you ever run bio in the winter or was it hear say about the jelling just curious. In minnesota here we blend the fuel out our self or we just put in artic fox tankheaters in our semis and plug them in. The new semi trucks from say 90s on circulate fuel so much the jelling factor is almost none and with the hotlines it is almost non existant. I cant wait to get it here so we can try it .

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Paul in Mich

05-02-2005 21:24:40

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Re: OUTRAGEOUS FUEL PRICES #2 in reply to cockshutt446, 05-02-2005 20:21:11

Bio diesel here in mid Mich is on average 10 cents per gal more expensive than regular diesel fuel, on or off road. That factor plus using the anti gelling additive in the winter time makes using bio diesel economically challenging. 90"s engines?????..... Tractors, maybe, but most farmers do not use newer trucks. Most farm trucks are pre 90"s, many being pre 80"s. Three month"s use doesnt justify a new truck. Frankly I haven"t heard whether newer tractors are more bio diesel friendly than older ones. And our operation has not tried bio diesel, but I"m relating what I hear from those who have tried using it. So far, it has been a hard sell any way its cut.

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JWhite

05-02-2005 19:59:53

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Re: OUTRAGEOUS FUEL PRICES #2 in reply to Rodek Man, 05-02-2005 18:56:32

It may help if the production and sales cost would come down too. I like the bio-diesel idea but when regular diesel cost a few cents less, most diesel engine owners (farmer and non farmer) would go with the cheaper route (money saved on fuel means an extra scoop of fertilizer). Many have seen the price of the bio going up with the regular diesel and that doesn't help sell the bio. If you want to push the bio, you have to have the right price that attract the users.

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Jeff Oliver

05-02-2005 20:33:02

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Re: OUTRAGEOUS FUEL PRICES #2 in reply to JWhite, 05-02-2005 19:59:53

your lucky if it is just a few cents higher there. Here in west Tn it is a minimum of 10 cents higher and the last time I checked bio was about 20 cents higher per gallon. I am all for it personally and as for engines and such there is a construction company here that uses it in everything and they have no problems at all. If they could find a way to make it at least the same price as regular diesel then it would probably sell really good. I have run some just to try it and liked it, just not the price....

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05-02-2005 19:22:59

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Re: OUTRAGEOUS FUEL PRICES #2 in reply to Rodek Man, 05-02-2005 18:56:32

would burn bio diesel if it were in a place I could get it!!!!!

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Leland

05-02-2005 22:29:10

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Re: OUTRAGEOUS FUEL PRICES #2 in reply to JT, 05-02-2005 19:22:59

JT try FS farmer by me also burns it and on thur thru sun walmart is knocking a dime off per gallon of gas don't know about fuel but filled up for 1`.89 there sat night using gift card.

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Allan in NE

05-02-2005 19:19:22

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Re: OUTRAGEOUS FUEL PRICES #2 in reply to Rodek Man, 05-02-2005 18:56:32

A good first step would be for you to take off your Caps Lock.

Allan

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old

05-02-2005 19:12:21

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Re: OUTRAGEOUS FUEL PRICES #2 in reply to Rodek Man, 05-02-2005 18:56:32

Would be nice if we could but, most engines will not last very long on it. To much of it in an engine is as bad as putting sand in the oil. They are working on engines that will burn it but they are not here yet. As far as the boi-diesel well that does work good but you have to have a diesel to use it.

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fixerupper

05-02-2005 19:26:16

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Re: OUTRAGEOUS FUEL PRICES #2 in reply to old, 05-02-2005 19:12:21

I've used 10% ethanol ever since it came out here in Iowa, which is a long time, and I've never had an ounce of engine trouble because of it. Now when we talk carburetors, that is a different story. On some carter and ford carbs from the 80's the accelerator pump diaphraghm will wrinkle up like a prune if ethanol is used. On other models of Carter and Fords carbs it will work just fine. Go figure! Fuel injected engines don't have problems that I know of. Mileage will suffer just a little bit with ethanol but on the other hand ethanol has higher octane so if it is used all the time the timing can be bumped up just a bit on the older vehicles.

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old

05-02-2005 19:35:09

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Re: OUTRAGEOUS FUEL PRICES #2 in reply to fixerupper, 05-02-2005 19:26:16

yep 10% is ok but try going to say 25-50% and you will melt an engine down

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jddriver

05-03-2005 05:00:05

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Re: OUTRAGEOUS FUEL PRICES #2 in reply to old, 05-02-2005 19:35:09

Old dont know where you are getting your info but you will not melt an engine down I am using E85 in all of my vehicles not my 2 cylinders they get 10%.I have npt had ant trouble with bio diesel gellingbut then again somr peaple can get straight #2 to not work in 100 degree weather.I can only say when the big oil companies say that a product is bad for you and to use their product it makes me look at the option a lot harder.Steve

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old

05-03-2005 05:53:20

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Re: OUTRAGEOUS FUEL PRICES #2 in reply to jddriver, 05-03-2005 05:00:05

But you have to know how its mixed 50% achol will melt an engine down unless it is mixed right. The companys that put or the higher % fuels also mix in a lot of oil to fix the problem you would have if you did run a 50/50 mix

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jddriver

05-03-2005 07:24:13

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Re: OUTRAGEOUS FUEL PRICES #2 in reply to old, 05-03-2005 05:53:20

have expermented(sp) with our own mix with virgin ethanol as there is plant 3 miles from the farm and with upto 85% alch. have never had any problems.I think that the fear of the unknown is running ranpant about ethanol,I mean think about the 20s-40s they used to runn those primitive cars on staight ethanol and that was sure before digital cotrols.Steve

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old

05-03-2005 07:54:41

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Re: OUTRAGEOUS FUEL PRICES #2 in reply to jddriver, 05-03-2005 07:24:13

Well yes and no most would put in a qt or 2 of used oil for every 10 gallions of it

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paul

05-03-2005 09:03:14

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Re: OUTRAGEOUS FUEL PRICES #2 in reply to old, 05-03-2005 07:54:41

I think you have no clue of what you are talking about. Ethanol (NOT methanol, which you might be confusing???) burns cleaner & more even than gasoline offering extended oil changes, less varnish & general fouling, and cleaner engine parts. Some plastic/rubber parts need to be of the proper makeup, in cold weather (with carb) preheating is needed as it takes more BTU's to vaporize alcohol, and ajustments to air/fuel mix and timing are needed when you change a fuel, but the problems you are talking about are _not_ for real with ethanol.

You really are missing the mark completely on this one, Old. I generally respect your opinions & enjoy your contribution to this forum, but you are 180 degrees wrong on this one. Just totally wrong, no other way to put it. Hitler's boys were running planes on pure ethanol at the end of his days, they said way back then those were the cleanest engines they disassembled.....

You are wrong. Totally.

--->Paul

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Leland

05-02-2005 22:31:50

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Re: OUTRAGEOUS FUEL PRICES #2 in reply to old, 05-02-2005 19:35:09

I burn E-85 for 1.69 per gal go to the ILL corn growers site they are talking about E-95 for diesel motors.

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old

05-03-2005 05:55:14

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Re: OUTRAGEOUS FUEL PRICES #2 in reply to Leland, 05-02-2005 22:31:50

Yes the stuff works but as I siad in the other post that is company mixed stuff try a true 50/50 mix and you will have trouble, the companys also add oil to the mix to stop the melt down problem.

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RustyFarmall

05-02-2005 19:08:32

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Re: OUTRAGEOUS FUEL PRICES #2 in reply to Rodek Man, 05-02-2005 18:56:32

Calm down, you need to realize that you are talking to quite a few farmers on this board who would like nothing better than to have new markets open up for their products. I have been using the E-10 ever since it became available back in the early eighties. You also need to realize that not all vehicles are designed to run on anything greater than 10% ethanol. I do not use bio-diesel because I don't have any thing that runs on diesel.

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Ray,IN

05-02-2005 22:25:42

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Re: OUTRAGEOUS FUEL PRICES #2 in reply to RustyFarmall, 05-02-2005 19:08:32

Visit the bio-diesel website for a national listing of places to purchase bio-diesel. Right now the price of bio-diesel is higher than #2 diesel because it takes petroleum and electricity to power the bio-diesel plants- well, the website explains all that. Are fuel prices outrageous? Nationwide surveys reflect there has been no reduction in consumption from one year ago. I can remember when gas cost near $1/gal and my net pay was $40 for 40 hrs work. Has anyone else notices each new generation gets a little more spoiled?

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curious

07-20-2005 01:47:57

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Re: OUTRAGEOUS FUEL PRICES #2 in reply to Ray,IN, 05-02-2005 22:25:42

(it takes petroleum and electricity to power the bio-diesel plants) I never heard shuch a load of crap... are they not making fuel that could run the plants?!)

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Paul in Mich

05-03-2005 05:25:07

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Re: OUTRAGEOUS FUEL PRICES #2 in reply to Ray,IN, 05-02-2005 22:25:42

Ray, I"ve been trying to tell folks that for seemingly eons, but few seem to listen. The price of gas almost makes a person have to choose between fuel or owning 2 cell phones with cameras and videogames included. As they say in the valley, "Gag me with a spoon". We are indeed a spoiled lot.

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Herbert Brady

06-11-2005 15:22:51

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Re: OUTRAGEOUS FUEL PRICES #2 in reply to Paul in Mich, 05-03-2005 05:25:07

What I am wondering is can it be used in any vehicle without any problems. There is a couple of locations here where it can be bought. I am talking about E-85 fuel

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