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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

Hey you folks in North and South Dakota

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cadet trooper

05-14-2005 14:46:00




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Hey, I goofed, I posted my message on the Garden tractor forum about burning sunflower and diesel fuel in a couple test tractors at one of your universities up there around the early 80's check it out in the GT forum and let me know. Sorry CRS set in.




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cadet trooper

05-15-2005 17:17:02




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 Re: Hey you folks in North and South Dakota in reply to cadet trooper , 05-14-2005 14:46:00  
Thanks for the feed back folks, I know the cost of producing biofuel is more expensive but gosh! look at the great things we could do which include helping the American farmer which in my opinion is the best in the world (excuse me guys from other countries I'm a little partial)I got some insight a few weeks ago on a company owned by the Japanese is working on starting an Ethanol plant in the midwest. The coporate guys in this country need to start looking at the long term payback instead of the short term but I guess as long as we have CEOs that get evaluated annually on annual returns we'll always have foreigners putting thier hands in the till. Off my soapbox now, thanks again guys for the info.

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cdmn

05-15-2005 21:24:26




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 Re: Hey you folks in North and South Dakota in reply to cadet trooper, 05-15-2005 17:17:02  
I don't see it that way so clearly. If the price of crops goes up, then the government subsidy won't kick in, so do you gain? Second if the cash flow looks better, that will justify more debt, and that means one farmer will buy out his neighbor and run a bigger operation. Third, a lot of "farmers" buy feed instead of selling it.



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Bob

05-14-2005 22:20:44




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 Re: Hey you folks in North and South Dakota in reply to cadet trooper , 05-14-2005 14:46:00  
Did you GOOGLE it? Lots of interesting info there!



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big fred

05-14-2005 16:24:31




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 Re: Hey you folks in North and South Dakota in reply to cadet trooper , 05-14-2005 14:46:00  
Heck, I probably know the feller that was doin' the tests. I graduated from NDSU, Fargo in 79, and I was in grad school in 82-83, (Mechanical Engrg). I presume the testing was done as a graduate project in Ag Engrg or Chemistry. I had a very good friend who was in grad school in Ag Engrg at the time, and met most of the Ag Engrg grad students. I don't recall the test though. Maybe it was done in the Chem Engrg dept at UND in Grand Forks?

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big fred

05-14-2005 16:43:20




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 Did a little search in reply to big fred, 05-14-2005 16:24:31  
There was a paper published in 1984 by a M. Pestes and J. Stanislao (my metallurgy prof and the dean of the engineering college at NDSU) titled "Piston ring deposits when using vegetable oil as a fuel". It was published in "Journal of Testing and Evaluation, 12(2): 61-68", which you interpret as volume 12, issue 2, pages 61-68.

Also: Hofman, V., D. Kaufman, D. Helgeson, and W. E. Dinusson. 1981. Sunflower for power. NDSU Cooperative Extension Service Circular AE-735. Fargo, ND (I don't know any of those fellows)

I'm sure if you did a search of the NDSU and UND libraries, you could find some master's theses or other documents pertaining to it. I do recall biofuels being studied when I was there, but I mostly recall it was ethanol research.

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Rauville

05-14-2005 15:40:13




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 Re: Hey you folks in North and South Dakota in reply to cadet trooper , 05-14-2005 14:46:00  
I remember that there was a lot of discussion and testing during the 1980's of using sunflower oil as a biodiesel base, but the main drawback at that time was cost. Sunflower oil was 2-3 times more expensive than #2 diesel. I'm sure those figures have changed now. To lower the cost of biodiesel, there was a 10 month long test using beef tallow / diesel blend in Kansas City transit buses back in 1997. I believe that test proved to be very successful. At that time I think they figured a 6-8 million dollar annual fuel savings if the switch was made. I wonder where the opposition to change came from?
To answer your question...NO I can't recall the particular test you're referring to, but I'm sure a little research would bring it to light.

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