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live power

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davis-ky

05-27-2005 19:52:46




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exactly what is it and does the ford 8n,9n,or naa have it and what are its advantages? I"m a "greenhorn" as you can tell. I"m wanting one of the three tractors for garden work and using a finish mower




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Rod F.

05-29-2005 10:49:20




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 Re: live power in reply to davis-ky, 05-27-2005 19:52:46  
As I have always understood thses definitions, transmission or non-live PTO is simply driven from the transmission. There is one clutch for the transmission. When you push the clutch in, everything stops. The 9N, 2N, 8N, and the NAA Fords, and all hundred series, and hundred 01 series Fords except the x6x and SOS tractors had non-live PTO. Live PTO,to me has always refered to tractors like the 660 and 860 which had a 2-stage clutch. Pushing the clutch half way in stopped the transmission, and all the way in stopped the PTO. SOS tractors had a fully independant PTO. This can be engaged or disengaged without regard to transmission operation. Post '65 4000 and larger Fords all had independant PTO. The only advantage to any of the tractors you mentioned is that of cheap purchase price. If they can't be had cheap, get something more functional. Good luck.

Rod

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Robert in W. Mi.

05-30-2005 19:56:23




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 Re: live power in reply to Rod F., 05-29-2005 10:49:20  
Hey Rod,

That's exactly the way non-live, live, and independent pto is described around here too. It's also the way it was described in the old tractor mags i've read too.

Robert



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j cook (iowa)

05-28-2005 06:11:38




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 Re: live power in reply to davis-ky, 05-27-2005 19:52:46  
"LIVE" means that it is engine driven, not driven from the transmission, and should have a separate, independant clutch. Transmission driven hydraulics or power take offs stop running whenever you depress the clutch, "Live" hydraulics and pto's work continuously whenever they are engaged, whether you clutch the tranny or not.

If you are operating a pto machine, like a brush cutter for example, under load, and you operate the clutch when making a turn or something, on a non-live pto tractor, the power operating the equipment ceases, which is a bad thing usually.

Hydraulics are also either "live" or transmission powered. The same problems apply. For example if you are using a loader, on a tractor equipped with non-live hydraulics (N series Fords don't even HAVE hydraulics of this sort) your loader stops working whenever you hit the clutch!

Of the tractors you mentioned, the NAA is the only one with any sort of possibility for live pto OR hydraulics,

If you simply must have a Ford, look for something more like a 641.

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Bob Semrau

05-28-2005 21:13:46




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 Re: live power in reply to j cook (iowa), 05-28-2005 06:11:38  
Engine driven PTO's are called independent. With these you can start or stop the PTO at any time. Oliver was the prime example of this. Many "Live" PTO systems have a transmission driven PTO, but they also have a second clutch between the transmission and the final drive to start or stop tractor movement. Lots of Fords and MFs with the double clutch, as well as Allis Chalmers with the hand clutch are this way. With these you can't start the PTO while the tractor is moving.

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Robert In W. Mi.

05-28-2005 07:33:31




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 Re: live power in reply to j cook (iowa), 05-28-2005 06:11:38  
I'm not disagreeing with you, but most of the 8n's i've seen with a loader, have a seperate hydraulic pump. It's mounted on the front "live" to the crankshaft, so the "loader" works seperate of the tranny or clutch.

Robert



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Van in AR

05-27-2005 20:26:05




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 Re: live power in reply to davis-ky, 05-27-2005 19:52:46  
Are you asking about the PTO system or the hydraulics? If you are mainly going to work a little garden with it, live or independant PTO and hydraulics is a luxury, if you get one with it good, if you don't thats OK also. If you need to run a tiller live PTO is the way to go, also need a super low creeper gear to get the most out of it.
Van



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Robert in W. Mi.

05-28-2005 07:45:57




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 Re: live power in reply to Van in AR, 05-27-2005 20:26:05  
Personally i don't think running a tiller without live power is a big deal at all and really it's not needed. I have one of my rotavators on a "non" live pto tractor and it's just fine. My other two rotavators are on tractors with independent pto.

As for "creep" gears, for a tiller i guess it depends on how much you want to grind the oil up!! I don't ever use the slowest ground speed my tractor has when field tilling, as i don't want it ground into dust!! Old Fords like most old tractors do have a fairly fast first gear though.

Now, when it comes to finish mowing or rotary cutting, i just HATE a tractor "with out" live pto!!!! Over run clutch ot not, they are still a PITA!!

Robert

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old

05-27-2005 20:24:48




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 Re: live power in reply to davis-ky, 05-27-2005 19:52:46  
True live PTO is not effected by pushing in the clutch. An 8 or 9N doesn't have live PTO or hydralics. There is also a 2 stage clutch system which is sort of live PTO, you puch the clutch down half way to stop the tractor form moveing forward and the PTO stil goes, all the way down and both tractor and pto stop.



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Gerald J.

05-27-2005 20:13:50




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 Re: live power in reply to davis-ky, 05-27-2005 19:52:46  
Live PTO is PTO independent of forward motion. The N fords don't have it. If you run a mower with them and try to stop, the mower PTO is coming off the intermediate shaft of the transmission and will push the tractor, unless you use an overrunning clutch. If you want to lift a load on the 3 point (the hydraulic pump is on the same PTO shaft) without moving the tractor, you have to stop and shift the transmission out of gear. Then let out the clutch to make the PTO run.s

Not having live PTO is inconvenient and unless you use the overruning clutch on the mower not having live PTO can be hazardous.

Gerald J.

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