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Sticker Shock

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Harley

06-17-2005 13:35:56

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Just called the local farm supply house and HELLO. Price of steel posts and wire are through the roof. Got about a mile cleared and ready to fence and now gotta mortgage the kids education to buy material. Guy said it's cause the price of steel that went to China. Now I'm all for helping a slope get ahead from one oxen to maybe two, or from a pound of rice a week to one electric light bulb per villiage, but really, they are going overboard here when I can't fence in another quarter section in case I might need it some day. Boy, where is Akmed and his kids when you need them. Ifn he'd ever get over here I wouldn't need to build that fence. Just cut a long stick per kid, send them down in the woods with a fruit jar full of water per day and get-er-done. Just don't seem right huh. Harley

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Roper6365

06-19-2005 11:30:01

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Re: Sticker Shock in reply to Harley, 06-17-2005 13:35:56

six years ago in this powerplant we would buy coal for 18-20 dollars per ton delivered. Now its in the $70 range because it's all going to china. It's not china's fault, it's ours. They diden't put a gun to our heads and say " gimmi your coal, concrete and steel." So, when your electric bill and building costs keep skyrocketing don't blame china, Blame your government and greedy U.S. industry.

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GO BUSH................

06-18-2005 06:01:07

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Re: Sticker Shock in reply to Harley, 06-17-2005 13:35:56

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CANT GO MUCH LOWER.......

06-18-2005 13:11:39

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Re: Sticker Shock in reply to GO BUSH................, 06-18-2005 06:01:07

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Dixieland

06-17-2005 17:38:03

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Re: Sticker Shock in reply to Harley, 06-17-2005 13:35:56

Definitions: (Revised Edition)
Bigot, A feller who don't like to be run over.
Politition, A feller who don't care who runs over you.
Asian, A feller who already got run over.
Harley, A feller who is gittin run over.

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MMB

06-17-2005 17:13:37

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Re: Sticker Shock in reply to Harley, 06-17-2005 13:35:56

Well, I won't comment on your bigoted personality but I will comment on the rest of your post. The Chinese (ie. Asians) will make anything you want. They can make pliers etc. as cheap as you want them or they can make pliers as good as Snap On. It just depends on what the customer (our tool suppliers) want to buy to resell to us. Meanwhile, we are all living high on the hog and getting fat and lazy while the Chinese are kicking our butts on the world market because they're lean and energetic and will work hard. A historical case in point would be the trouble our auto industry is in, it happened because we sat back and demanded high pay for menial assembly line tasks (and got it too). The result is an inferior product and sagging sales. Ever find anyone that has bought and driven a Japanese car and then went back to domestic? I doubt it very much, and remember all that "Japanese Junk" we used to talk about 50 years ago? If you think things are bad now, you ain't seen nothing yet buddy .... in 20 years we're going to be in the soup line over here unless we tighten our belts a bit and suck it up. Hate to rain on your parade but after reading your post, we shouldn't wonder why much of the world thinks of us as they do. Not looking for a fight on this, just stating some facts.

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dr.sportster

06-19-2005 06:35:03

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Re: Sticker Shock in reply to MMB, 06-17-2005 17:13:37

No one in my family has ever bought,owned or shown any interest in a piece of crap jap car.Chevrolets and GMC.

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MMB

06-19-2005 15:04:38

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Re: Sticker Shock in reply to dr.sportster, 06-19-2005 06:35:03

So what? There were a lot of cave men who never saw a wheel and some of them didn't use fire to cook food. So your family just buys "crap cars", not "crap jap cars" right? Read the papers lately? Obviously not, it seems that GM is in deep caca and it's not from making quality products my good friend.

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edchainsaw

06-17-2005 20:34:02

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Re: Sticker Shock in reply to MMB, 06-17-2005 17:13:37

BAUGHT A JAP TRUCK AND WENT BACK! and GLAD I DID! when my trailblazer was hit broad sided at 60mph and didnt roll over and no scratch on me... my old Jap built would have been rapped around me.

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edchainsaw

06-17-2005 20:33:57

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Re: Sticker Shock in reply to MMB, 06-17-2005 17:13:37

BAUGHT A JAP TRUCK AND WENT BACK! and GLAD I DID! when my trailblazer was hit broad sided at 60mph and didnt roll over and no scratch on me... my old Jap built would have been rapped around me.

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Easy

06-17-2005 19:33:46

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Re: Sticker Shock in reply to MMB, 06-17-2005 17:13:37

A number of years ago, the plant manager at our GM engine plant told us that everybody in the building could work for free, and it would not make a 10% difference in the cost of the engine. And we have about a third as many employees now as then, producing as many engines. BTW, GM has the highest American content of any manufacturer, @ 85%. As far as competing with the asians on wages and benefits, no we can't. Even the Mexican president, Vincete Fox, called the chinese wages " essentially nonexistent" Mexico has lost a lot of jobs to China in recent years, 40,000 in one city, Nuevo Laredo, in one year, in that one city. China is a problem for not only the US, but virtually everybody. We seem burdened with a government that doesn't have any idea on what to do. Easy.

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tlak

06-17-2005 18:56:13

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Re: Sticker Shock in reply to MMB, 06-17-2005 17:13:37

You should have watched Dateline tonight "Garmet work in Bangladesh". This worker was making 17 cents an hour and figured she could live high on the hog if they raised it to 25 cents an hour. these worker were sleeping at their machines because they worked so hard and long. She thought with this $.25@hr. she could add some fruits and vegetables to her bean and rice diet. What was not aired in the show was the cost and price increase as it passed through everybody's hands till it got to Walmart, because Walmart and the rest wouldn't be interviewed. I heard this crap of we need to do it like the Asians even when I worked for the Fed Gov. The problem isn't the American worker or how much they get paid it's the thieves in between. Our Gov jobs were contracted out to the likes of Lockheed and Halibertan at an increased cost to the tax payer. The American worker will rise to any challenge if their lead. How bout the airlines where the workers are giving up pay and retirements while the CEO and cohorts are giving themselves raises. The stock-market perpetuates what these companies do by trying to improve the bottom line every year which is based on a pyramid scheme, can't happen.

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edchainsaw

06-17-2005 20:39:39

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Re: Sticker Shock in reply to tlak, 06-17-2005 18:56:13

YOU GOT THAT RIGHT--- the middle guys and the stock holders---

I was so mad at the one woman on the news the other night.... Demanded to know why she was not getting more dividen from her GM stock this year...

PEOPLE GROW UP! not everyones wage goes up every year.. NOR SHOULD IT!

The last post is great! BUY US and keep your neighbor paying taxes! or eles you will pay more.

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edchainsaw

06-17-2005 20:39:34

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Re: Sticker Shock in reply to tlak, 06-17-2005 18:56:13

YOU GOT THAT RIGHT--- the middle guys and the stock holders---

I was so mad at the one woman on the news the other night.... Demanded to know why she was not getting more dividen from her GM stock this year...

PEOPLE GROW UP! not everyones wage goes up every year.. NOR SHOULD IT!

The last post is great! BUY US and keep your neighbor paying taxes! or eles you will pay more.

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MMB

06-18-2005 06:31:40

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Re: Sticker Shock in reply to edchainsaw, 06-17-2005 20:39:34

I think you are losing sight of the "Basic" message in my post. Nobody is saying we have to work for 17 cents per hour, that would be ridiculous. What I am saying is that things have got to change and thinking that we can strangle the Asian economy is nothing but a pipe dream. North Americans have demanded (and got) reasonable quality asian-produced goods for a reasonable cost. I don't profess to have the answers, but I can make a crystal-ball prediction of things in 25 years and it ain't a pretty picture.

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tlak

06-18-2005 09:39:45

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Re: Sticker Shock in reply to MMB, 06-18-2005 06:31:40

I don't know what your point is. One book I'm reading says by out sourcing they can save up to 50% of production. At 17 cents they're taking the cost of labor out of the equation. We can't work for free. The answer "was" before they opened NAFTA they needed to have everyone on an even playing field. No banned chemicals, tariffs to even wages, on and on..... ..

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big fred

06-17-2005 17:32:10

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Re: Sticker Shock in reply to MMB, 06-17-2005 17:13:37

Well said. While some (not all, and probably not even most) American workers are averse to updating their skill set or moving a couple hundred miles to get a job, the Asians, Indians, Pakistanis, etc, are willing to learn new things, new languages, uproot their families and move long distances or even to other countries to work, and they're also willing to put up with bigoted attitudes from their customers while they completely kick our butts, beating us at a game we invented, Yankee ingenuity and the good ol' American work ethic.

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MMB

06-17-2005 18:29:35

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Attn: Sawtooth in reply to big fred, 06-17-2005 17:32:10

I tried to reply directly to your post below but for some reason, the YT site wanted me to write down everything but my Social Security number and my Swiss bank account to reply to you, so I'll do it this way I guess. Everything you say is 100% correct (albeit maybe somewhat exaggerated once or twice) but you're finally catching on to what's happening around us. You've restated pretty much exactly what I said originally so I thank you for the support.

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sawtooth

06-17-2005 17:31:03

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Re: Sticker Shock in reply to MMB, 06-17-2005 17:13:37

"the Chinese are lean and energetic and work hard- are kicking our butts". According to documentaries I've seen about Walmart, the Chinese workers making products to sell here are getting between 25 to 50 cents an hour. Looks like we're needing to take some giant leaps backwards to compete. Ride bicycles (or maybe walk), live in huts w/o electricity and maybe shoes for our feet. Well, I don't see our society wanting to go backwards. Our property taxes keep going up to pay for things like a new school in our district. Guess they needed to go to China and see what kind of schools those kids go to. Something is going to hit the fan if this keeps on.

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tlak

06-17-2005 16:41:08

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Re: Sticker Shock in reply to Harley, 06-17-2005 13:35:56

I cleaned up around the yard and got $55@ton. It had been 80@ton. There was mountains of everything you could imagin: cars, refrig, etc..
I guess it's bought but not in China. I guess they have to hope China's giving more that the $80 a ton when they bought at that price.

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Davis In SC

06-17-2005 19:09:48

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Re: Sticker Shock in reply to tlak, 06-17-2005 16:41:08

Go back 4 years, steel was not worth hauling... After my Dad passed away, I was cleaning up his place. There was around 10 tons of boiler tubing he had gotten to build projects with... I checked, scrap was only bringing 10 dollars a ton. I wound up paying a guy 300 dollars to haul it off..... . Wish I had that steel now...

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37 chief

06-17-2005 18:15:32

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Re: Sticker Shock in reply to tlak, 06-17-2005 16:41:08

I don't feel so bad now. We were told we would get 70.00 a ton, maybe a little more. Just glad to get rid of the stuff, they hauled it also, I guess that is worth something. Stan in calif.

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RayP(MI)

06-17-2005 15:51:16

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Re: Sticker Shock in reply to Harley, 06-17-2005 13:35:56

Yeah, wife wants me to double the size of pasture field for her sheep. Woven wire fence is up to $120 a roll from about $85, a couple years back.
Steel fence posts are almost double price. Holy Sheep, Batman!

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Mike (WA)

06-17-2005 16:03:10

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Re: Sticker Shock in reply to RayP(MI), 06-17-2005 15:51:16

And the ironic thing is that the Chinese steel is about the same tensile strength as salt water taffy. Had a pair of Chinese (congratulate me- I didn't use any racially stereotypic slang here) sidecutters- just bought them cheap at a bargain from Harbor Freight- had been feeling old and weak, but was encouraged to find that I could still break the nippers by squeezing with just one hand while trying to cut some wire. What did they mix with our perfectly good scrap steel to make it so lame? How can they make the castings on Jinma tractors so badly? Why did the Rhino at the last auction run so poorly, yet the auctioneer was obviously thrilled that they could even get it started? Do they have some kind of classes on this?

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Rod in Smiths Falls, ON,

06-17-2005 18:17:26

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Re: Sticker Shock in reply to Mike (WA), 06-17-2005 16:03:10

Hey, the Chinese have come a long way since The Great Leap Forward back in the '50's. That's when Mao got everybody in the country to make pig iron in their homes, using -- no kidding -- backyard blast furnaces fired with charcoal.

They met their quota for iron production, some astronomically high number. None of it was useable, but they met the quota and the behemoth of Chinese industrial production started rolling. They can feed their people now, and as long as Harbour Freight, Walmart and Canadian Tire sell us back that scrap metal at an 80% markup, they should do o.k.

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37 chief

06-17-2005 15:38:16

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Re: Sticker Shock in reply to Harley, 06-17-2005 13:35:56

No it is not right, but what can anyone do. If you don't buy the posts some else will. Just today about 18 ton of scrap iron was hauled out of our place. I dind't ask where it goes, but I'll bet it goes to china to be turned into fence posts. Stan in calif.

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Harley

06-17-2005 16:01:20

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Re: Sticker Shock in reply to 37 chief, 06-17-2005 15:38:16

Yepper. It's like Rustyfarmall said a couple of weeks back. We were making enough to almost break even on the cows anyway, I'm glad steel prices went up so I would KNOW where the deficit came from at least. Not to worry, it's worth something just to be in business. :-) Harley

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Mike (WA)

06-17-2005 16:06:30

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Re: Sticker Shock in reply to Harley, 06-17-2005 16:01:20

Or, as my Dad once told a guy who complained that he had bought steers in the spring and sold them in the fall for exactly the same total price, "Well, at least you had the use of the cattle."

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Harley

06-17-2005 19:20:53

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Re: Sticker Shock in reply to Mike (WA), 06-17-2005 16:06:30

Hey Dixieland, it sure don't take much to drag the politically correct police out of the woodwork does it? Heck, I even held back a bunch. Spent two wonderful years in the Southeast Asia vacationland of the Orient from '68-'70, so I could have greatly expounded upon my description of our far eastern neighbors, but I'm getting older and my people skills , while non-existant, have dulled somewhat. Glad to see I can still stir the dust a little though. Keeps the riffraff off of Allan's back.. :-) Harley

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mike in New Mexico

06-17-2005 20:13:52

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Re: Sticker Shock in reply to Harley, 06-17-2005 19:20:53

I hear you harley-been there-done that. 68-71
mike

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37 chief

06-17-2005 22:40:40

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Re: Sticker Shock in reply to mike in New Mexico, 06-17-2005 20:13:52

67, and would do it all over again if I could.

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edchainsaw

06-17-2005 20:53:21

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Re: Sticker Shock in reply to mike in New Mexico, 06-17-2005 20:13:52

you know they can say all they want about american workers not wanting to work... SOME DONT but most would take a minor cut if they had to to keep the job they have..

and those poor asiatic people are really beeing shafted... I am for making any company that imports good have to pay at least US minimum wages to ALL employees world wide... then lets see what happens...

I am not a biggett.. and I am not an isolationist I am for total HONESTY AND FAIRNESS! something that corporate america has forgot totally!

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