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OT '90 Bronco tranney trouble

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RayP(MI)

08-02-2005 04:35:03




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"90 Bronco II, 220,000 miles - will not go from standing start when selector is in overdrive, acts like something is slipping. Will move but very slowly, sluggishly, high engine RPMS. If you start out in Drive, 2nd or 1st, it operates pretty much normally. Once you get up to road speeds cna shift into overdrive, and operates normally. Any insights as to what is going wrong?




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RayP(MI)

08-03-2005 13:00:29




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 Re: OT '90 Bronco tranney trouble in reply to RayP(MI), 08-02-2005 04:35:03  
Thanks for all the information guys - got it to a tranney shop, and they roadtested it as far as the end of the short driveway. Said it was the overdrive sprague. Pretty much just what Brokenwrench said. Awaiting a call from them today, to find out how much more stuff has to be repaired to keep it on the road for a while. Son is in 3rd year at community college, and we"re trying to keep it going until he completes bachelor"s degree. Just had it gone over with a fine tooth comb by an auto electric shop - said engine was in excellent condition. So probably should consider repairing tranney.

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xragman

08-02-2005 12:34:28




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 Re: OT '90 Bronco tranney trouble in reply to RayP(MI), 08-02-2005 04:35:03  
ray
I believe this tran. is what I call AOD. The trans, pressure is controled by cable to troddle arm .check for brok or missing plastic bushing in hole. only can get it at ford parts, $1.90 easy to install.



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Vern-MI

08-02-2005 13:57:32




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 Re: OT '90 Bronco tranney trouble in reply to xragman, 08-02-2005 12:34:28  
The AOD was never offered in the Explorer. It was offered in the Mercury Mountaineer when the small 5.0 liter V8 was purchased.

The only element in the A4LD which is peculiar to the O/D gear range and no other is the overdrive band. The only time it is used is in the O/D selected range. The High & reverse clutch and the forward clutch are also used in the O/D gear range but they are also used in the other gear selections and Ray has said that the other gear ranges work fine. So the likely culprit is the O/D band either being worn out of out of adjustment. The O/D one way clutch and the one way clutch are not used in the O/D gear range.

The adjustment for the OVERDRIVE BAND is to loosen the lock nut and with it loose tighten the band adjusting screw to 10 Ft.Lbs. (14N*m) of torque. Once it has been torqued then back the screw off 2 turns and tighten the locknut. Be careful not to let the locknut interfere with the initial torque setting. ALSO be careful to hold the adjustment screw so it doesn't rotate from the adjusted setting when doing the final tightening of the locknut. The locknut torque is 40 lb. ft. or 54 N*m.

Also don't just spin out the adjustment screw willy nilly or you could have hard parts falling out of place internally which would necessitate tearing down the transmission.


There is also an INTERMEDIATE BAND and the adjustment is the same for that one except that the number of turns which it is backed out after torquing to 10 Ft.Lbs. is 2-1/2 turns.

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Brokenwrench

08-02-2005 16:01:17




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 Re: OT '90 Bronco tranney trouble in reply to Vern-MI, 08-02-2005 13:57:32  
Vern,
I don't want to argue with you, as you seem to know your stuff, but....
The OD band is not engaged til 4th gear. It's just doin nothin til the 3-4 shift happens. On the 93 explorers, the one year they tried the double wrap band, it was common for that band to break. The only result was no 4th. All engagements and upshifts were still normal.
In effect if you left that band totally out of the tranny, all you would do is lose 4th the thing wouldn't even slip, it'd just never make the shift.
Think of the applied elements in each gear.
With the selector in OD
1st- fwd clutches,low roller cl,OD sprag(basically input sprag for GM lovers)
2nd- fwd cl,intermediate band,OD sprag
3rd- fwd cl, direct clutch,OD sprag
4th- fwd cl, direct cl,OD band
Now put the selector in D (3rd)
1st -same except now the coast cluthes are also engaged
2nd- same + coast clutches
3rd- same + coast clutches

If the OD sprag is blown, when you put the shifter in OD you ain't goin no where cause nothing is locking up the OD planetary, ring gear and shaft, which also serves as the input shaft to the back (C3) part of the tranny.
When you shift to D
Now on come the coast clutches, they hold the planet, ring gear and shaft. Life is good, and
now there is input to the back of the tranny. Then, after he's in 3rd, he moves the shifter back to OD and on comes the OD band, off go the coast clutches, and bang,zoom,pow, your overdriving the planetary and off you go in 4th gear.
I'm bettin that when he comes to a stop he has to pull the thing back into a lower range to take off again.
Adding the coast clutches when shifted manually into a lower gear, is common Ford. They figure, if your shifting down, you're pullin something, and they want to give you the extra holding power. Come to think of it GM and Chrysler do similar things.
The problem is that the coast clutches are pretty weak commonly only a 2 friction 2 steel pack. Which is why it ain't gonna last forever with that sprag blown. They went to 3 for a while behind the 4.0, but now have went back to 2 in all applications 4R/5R55E. (cost thing).
This is why I believe it's the OD sprag. Gov problems, sealing ring problems,burnt fwd or direct clutches,broken or misadjusted bands would give you other symptoms. If you've seen those metal caged sprags, and how loose fitting they are form the get go (which I'm sure you have), I think we'd all agree that Ray did something pretty right to get 220,000 turns out of a slightly built up, OD version of a Pinto tranny. Just felt the need to get alittle technical, not trying to step on anyones toe. Brokenwrench

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Vern_MI

08-03-2005 04:20:42




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 Re: OT '90 Bronco tranney trouble in reply to Brokenwrench, 08-02-2005 16:01:17  
Thanks Brokenwrench. I stand corrected. I got the element application chart out and was confused as normal. This is the best forum for ideas and a cross check of those ideas by other contributors.



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Allan in NE

08-02-2005 16:44:58




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 Re: OT '90 Bronco tranney trouble in reply to Brokenwrench, 08-02-2005 16:01:17  
BW,

Know what you mean about "wanting to get technical".

After a feller spends a lifetime learning all those systems that drove their inventor totally "foaming at the mouth" insane in the first place, it does one good to spout it out once in awhile.

I think it is some sort of a relief valve. :>)

Allan



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Brokenwrench

08-02-2005 06:27:30




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 Re: OT '90 Bronco tranney trouble in reply to RayP(MI), 08-02-2005 04:35:03  
Hello Ray,
Sounds to me like a rolled overdrive sprag. This is a one way clutch in the tranny. It holds the overdrive planet from spinning in one direction while allowing it to freewheel in the other. The problem was, in the earlier ones it was a very loose fitting design that tended to fail. Around 95 they revamped the whole setup and the problem went away. When it goes over center it lets the planet freewheel in both directions. Why it starts out in "D" is because in that position it also engages the coast clutch, which holds the planet instead of the sprag. The reason you still have OD when you get up to speed is cause the sprag isn"t used in 4th. This will work for awhile but it puts alot of straine on the coast clutch, and that will end up failing too. This was probably the biggest achilles heal for that tranny, trouble is it aint a cheap fix. Usually the planet, sprag assemble, and drum are shot for sure. If you got someone that knows their stuff, with a little machining you can retro the late style setup into that tranny. As much as I hate to disagree with Allan, if the gov was stuck tight, you should still engage in OD. He is right about the govs being fussy on those units. But usually you"ll get high shifts, especially cold. Or you"ll get a wrong gear start from a stop. Hope this helps Brokenwrench

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Allan in NE

08-02-2005 05:27:42




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 Re: OT '90 Bronco tranney trouble in reply to RayP(MI), 08-02-2005 04:35:03  
Ray,

Brokenwrench is the resident tranny expert, but it seems to me on that one, you might be able to tighten up the bands.

Also, along about those years, Ford had a problem with the governor valve sticking. It might be trying to start out in 2nd or 3rd gear and can be cured with just a little crocus cloth on that valve so that it will slip back under it's own spring pressure.

Hope Brokenwrench jumps in here.

Allan

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Allan in NE

08-02-2005 05:40:21




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 Re: OT '90 Bronco tranney trouble in reply to Allan in NE, 08-02-2005 05:27:42  
Fact is,

The more I think about it, I'll just bet that governor is your problem with that many miles. The valve and flyweight is steel working in an aluminum housing and they tend to wobble out.

Might have to buy a new governor assembly. Under $30. Bad news is you have to yank that transfer case to get to it.

Allan



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Vern-MI

08-02-2005 06:27:21




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 Re: OT '90 Bronco tranney trouble in reply to Allan in NE, 08-02-2005 05:40:21  
That would be an A4LD transmission which was made in Bordeaux France and designed in Mercanich Germany. Those had a problem with the three governor seal rings, which were made of poly-pinko coated cast iron, wearing a groove into the aluminum govenor bore in the rear of the case. The fix was to bore the case out and insert a stainless steel sleeve which effectively rebuilt the sealing surface into the governor case bore.

The other item that this thing was famous for was wearing of the forward clutch cylinder rubber lip seal ring.

In either case they both require a complete teardown and rebuild.

By the way, that transmission started out as a C3 (three speed) in the Pinto in the early ‘70’s and was morphed into what is now the 5R55N, E & W (5 speed).

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Allan in NE

08-02-2005 06:49:35




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 Re: OT '90 Bronco tranney trouble in reply to Vern-MI, 08-02-2005 06:27:21  
Mornin' Vern,

That's why I always like the GMs. They used lipped seals just about everywhere and they would fail like clockwork. Kept me busy for many years. :>)

Ol' Henry had it right when he used the square-cut seals. Pretty darned tough trannys.

Allan



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