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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

OT-WELL ideas please

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Richard H.

08-05-2005 08:44:14




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First off you all, hit me with your best shots! Seems as though some humor could be used around here. About three years ago our well stopped producing water as good as it should so we had a new one put in. I believe the old one is just clogged. This well may be 75 years old at least. The guy that put in my new well said it could be possible that slots that were cut into the pipe at bottom were usually done with a torch and they were rusted shut.

Now for the fun part; This well is under the kitchen floor about six feet below finished floor. At one time it had a jet pump on a concrete pad about two feet below the floor which I jack hammered all out and turn the pit into a nice little storm shelter. I welded a cap on top of the four inch casing with a one inch pipe nipple in the center. What can I do to open the slots. I thought about using a blasting cap but then 9/11 happened and I can"t find them anywhere. Note: The wife says no holes thru the roof. Thanks, Richard H.

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RWK in WI

08-06-2005 18:36:32




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 Re: OT-WELL ideas please in reply to Richard H., 08-05-2005 08:44:14  
Here in Wisconsin we often have driven 2" well points that rust or corrode up. We can get a gallon bottle of tablets / pellets that can be dropped down the well and create an acid the cleans up the point. A gallon jug is enough to treat 2 or 3 wells. Turns the water purple when working and yellow when it has done its job. Takes between 8 and 24 hours. You then pump out the well. One brand is "Nu Well" . A good plumbing supply store should be able to help you.

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SM in Wi

08-05-2005 17:10:20




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 Re: OT-WELL ideas please in reply to Richard H., 08-05-2005 08:44:14  

I know of people around here who have their well blown out with a big air hammer, air commpressor. most times their well is as good as when it was new. In your case, it may not work so good. Mud and sand in the house is not a good thing.



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Farmer in the Dells (WI)

08-05-2005 15:01:45




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 Re: OT-WELL ideas please in reply to Richard H., 08-05-2005 08:44:14  
You could make sure there is water in the well. If not add the dry ice first, then pour water over it. Add as much dry ice as you can get in. Cap the pipe and let the ice do its work. May or may not work but it seems a bit safer than some of the earlier suggestions.



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T_Bone

08-05-2005 13:40:04




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 Re: OT-WELL ideas please in reply to Richard H., 08-05-2005 08:44:14  
Hi Richard,

Really not enough info to give suggestions, need static head and well depth.

I would probably use a pressure washer and hydrocrack the well. Fill the casing with water then pressure the system. This will cause fractures in the gravel/sand and or weakest point being the slots in the well casing.

T_Bone



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Richard H.

08-05-2005 15:19:17




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 Re: OT-WELL ideas please in reply to T_Bone, 08-05-2005 13:40:04  
OK, the well is 75 ft and just a guess the water is 20 ft down. I did reduce down the nipple to accept a washer hose for a few days at 60lbs to no avail. Also the guy who put in the new well said it should take as much water as it puts out. Thanks, Richard



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T_Bone

08-06-2005 02:10:50




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 Re: OT-WELL ideas please in reply to Richard H., 08-05-2005 15:19:17  
Hi Richard,

A 4" casing with a 55ft static head will hold about 35gal. You can use a weight on a string to tell well bottom then use a float on a string to tell static head.

I've also built a small static head detector from a 9v battery, electronic buzzer and T-stat (thermostat (cheap)) wire, under $50 including wire for 250ft. Just series wire the buzzer on one lead from battery, negitive or positive don't matter, and hook the other lead to the T-stat wire. The other t-stat lead will be on the battery post. Strip the T-stat wire ends 1/2" on both drop leads with a weight on the end (plumb bob works well). When the bare leads touch water the buzzer will sound. I've used this detector to 1000ft with good results.

I would then trash pump the casing to see just how much water you can get from your test measurements. Pump into a known quanity container, 55gal drum?, and then time it, until you run out of water or pump sand/mud. That will tell you how much gpm your well will produce at that static head.

A trash pump will pump small rocks and mud without damage. You can rent them pretty cheap just make sure it can pump at the suction head depth you need.

Could be that the bottom of casing is full of mud/sand not allowing a strong static head. You can make a hand baler if this is the case if you can't pump it out. Do a google search to see how a well baler is made.

Here we can not get a wellman to mess with a unkown well hole as he's at risk of loosing eqipment. Of course our wells are 500ft plus so he has more to loose.

T_Bone

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Richard H.

08-06-2005 11:30:26




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 Re: OT-WELL ideas please in reply to T_Bone, 08-06-2005 02:10:50  
An ole buddy and I were discussing this well the other day and he suggested Rotor rooter to do this. Do you think if I do this and then use a trash pump to suck it out is reasonable? If so I wonder what size pump to use? Thanks again for your time, Richard



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T_Bone

08-07-2005 04:26:54




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 Re: OT-WELL ideas please in reply to Richard H., 08-06-2005 11:30:26  
Hi Richard,

I think without getting a better idea of what the problem is, your going to be even guessing more. You can tell alot of what's happening in the well shaft with a disc on a 1/8" rope. I think you need to identifiy where the static head is in relanship to the bottom of the bore. Then a timed pump would tell you even more. I think that will give you an idea of the problem.

I would not send anything down the bore that can rotate and get hung up on the shaft wall unless that's the last best effort before giving up. This would be the same reason why a driller will not mess with a unknown bore.

Look at the problem from how the well works. You drill a bore hole down to water bearing sand & gravel, then you case the bore so sand and gravel can't run into the bore with the water flowing into the bore. The water standing in the bore, the static head, then is pumped to the surface to use while at the same time water keeps trying to refill the bore.

When you pump the bore at a rate that the water can't not keep up flowing into the bore, then you have just determined the flow rate of the well over a given time period or gpm of the well.

To keep the sand & gravel from getting into the bore, we use a perferated pipe wrapped in fine screen. In 75yrs you can imagine that the perferated pipe and screen has to be getting weak from the water eating away at it and the bore could be colasping. This disc could give you an idea if this was the problem vs using a small diameter pipe to find bottom.

Could be your aquifer that your pumping in has dropped. Comparring your new well to your old well would tell you this.

Another problem is when you drill a deep bore then set the pump shallow in the bore allowing fine silt to build in the bottom of the bore thus loosing static head. If it has been shallow pumped then this could be your problem. A homemade baler then could tell you this and also resolve the problem.

T_Bone

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Bob - MI

08-05-2005 10:27:47




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 Re: OT-WELL ideas please in reply to Richard H., 08-05-2005 08:44:14  
Had a neighbor who used a .22 to break things up when his used to get clogged. Seemed odd to me but it worked for him.



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buickanddeere

08-06-2005 06:55:58




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 Re: OT-WELL ideas please in reply to Bob - MI, 08-05-2005 10:27:47  
MMMmmm. The taste of fresh lead in the drinking water.



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Coloken

08-05-2005 10:06:52




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 Re: OT-WELL ideas please in reply to Richard H., 08-05-2005 08:44:14  
A regular well driller's baleing bucket. Slushed up and down, and droped as fast as you can. Push and pull on water will open the openings. I tried half a stick of dynimite once---blew out the caseing.



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Dixieland

08-05-2005 09:30:49




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 Re: OT-WELL ideas please in reply to Richard H., 08-05-2005 08:44:14  
That is a unique situation alright. I doubt it can be fixed but if you wanna give it a try pour about 5 gallons of white vineger down it and connect an air compressor to the casing. Put a valve on the one inch pipe and let it set a few days with the air pressure on it. The vineger may dissolve the rust but you gotta dissolve it to pump it out. If it opens it up and pump out the debris, you will need to chlorinate with a gallon of straight Clorox. Good luck!

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jeff-pa

08-05-2005 09:13:04




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 Re: OT-WELL ideas please in reply to Richard H., 08-05-2005 08:44:14  
Years ago a neighbor had me fire a 30-06 rifle down a well casing inside a pump house for the same type of problem. As I remember, it did not work but may be worth a try.



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