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OIL; Just to know

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jfp

09-16-2005 08:05:47

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This is a very touchy topic. But I see so many people blame the president & congress and the oil companies for such high gas prices. THE truth is they all are not really to blame. Now before you listen to what's been handed down from others hear me out. Oil is traded on the market by individuals wanting to buy and sell oil contracts to make a profit (mostly rich people but not all). They call this making money on paper and after all MONEY is just "paper" before it gets the green ink. Now these people are just doing this because thats how they know how to make a living. Much like a farmer plants his crops or a carpenter builds a house. We all do something to make a living. These people buy any amount of oil contracts and when a lot of buyers jump in the price goes up on our gas. Supply and demand. The gov't needs this for tax reasons to buy more foreign oil and help hold the cost down. Freeze the oil prices and we are stuck with high prices on gas. That's where terroist come in. They think they get the price of oil up and then go collect from the rich oil sheiks. They really don't care about the oil, they just want to be in control of the whole world and dominate it with their religion of kaos. It won't never happen. Hilter was the same way.

I can remember when I first started driving gas was 21 cents a gallon. Who would ever thought it would go this high in my world but some folks did and made a bundle in the market. I can't blame those folks for wanting to make it big though. If I had known ? I 'd done the same and you would have too!

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jfp

09-16-2005 21:03:29

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Re: OIL; Just to know in reply to jfp, 09-16-2005 08:05:47

First I'll say that there was good response's by most people. Secondly some people think they know what the problem is because they believe what some one else told them in the past. I do understand the commodity futures more than people realize; I am not to good at explaining all the details. The reason why we are impacted so hard on gas prices from futures trading is because we do not export any oil. Corn ,wheat,and soybeans is an export among so many other commodities. So when corn prices go up or down the impact is not so much a burden on us and include the fact that the US will always be growing food for the world. Now for people that think oil companies making huge profits is morally wrong I ask you, If corn went from what it is now, to say 25 dollars a bushel would you not sell your grains? I would be wishing I had more to sell. If any of you say no; I will not believe you or trust you. Like one person said in this post greed will even out in the end and they better enjoy the profits now because one thing in life is that it changes; we either change with it or get left in the dirt. Do so with out losing moral beliefs and you will survive well. More people in the world now so more is gonna happen. Some people tell me they live by the golden rule well if you noticed he who has all the gold makes the rules. You see I do have gospel in me. The truth is we all are afraid of something(me included). So we point a finger at this thing or that and say it ain't right and it may not be, but fixing it is what scares us so we don't do anything because we do not want to fail. I do not have all the answers to this oil problem but I am trying to come up with a solution and if I fail I can at least say I tried. I hope the best for all of you people at whatever you do. If getting up and going to work is all you can do so be it, I understand, been there. I have really met some good people on here and hope to meet face to face someday. Have a good day all of you.

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MarkB_MI

09-16-2005 19:02:47

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Re: OIL; Just to know in reply to jfp, 09-16-2005 08:05:47

You mis-understand the role of commodities futures markets. Futures markets are essential to stable commodity prices. Commodities speculators accept the risk that commodity producers and consumers are unable to accept. For example, a farmer can get a guaranteed price for his crop before it has been harvested, while a milling company is guaranteed a supply of grain at a set price. If the cash grain price fluctuates, it is the commodity traders who win or lose. And more commodities traders lose money than win. Yes, they can win big, but they can lose big, too.

Much is made of the spot price of crude oil, but in reality most oil is bought and sold on the futures market. Were there no futures market, you can bet that fuel prices would fluctuate even more wildly than they do now.

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DigDugNC

09-16-2005 17:23:00

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Re: OIL; Just to know in reply to jfp, 09-16-2005 08:05:47

"jfp" is right! You can call it greed, or price gouging, or what ever you want to and you can complain about not being able to consume less (where theres a will theres a way), and you can complain about the corrolation of the increase in crude oil prices compared to gas prices all day long, but the bottom line is this: If we as a nation consume less gas/oil then the price of gas will decrease "NO IF,AND,OR,BUTS ABOUT IT"

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ntmcj

09-17-2005 19:51:18

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Re: OIL; Just to know in reply to DigDugNC, 09-16-2005 17:23:00

Amen. I hate paying $3 for a gallon of gasoline like anyone else. I have taken conservation measures as best I can. I drive a 4 cylinder out and back to work. I feel for farmers, truckers, cabbies, contractors and others who by necessity must drive big vehicles or operate large equipment to make a living. I don't, however, feel one bit of sympathy for all the 'soccer moms' I see on the interstate every day driving around in a $30,000 Suburban hauling a couple of scrawny kids around. And they have the nerve to complain when it costs them $75 to fill up.

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RustyFarmall

09-16-2005 13:23:06

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Re: OIL; Just to know in reply to jfp, 09-16-2005 08:05:47

I disagree, what the oil companies are doing is out and out pure price gouging, and the president COULD do something about it. If I had the chance to do the same as the oil companies? No, I would not. I was taught the GOLDEN RULE at a very young age, and I live by it today.

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paul

09-16-2005 12:31:13

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Re: OIL; Just to know in reply to jfp, 09-16-2005 08:05:47

As a farmer, I play the same games with my grains - try to sell high. All the same as the crude oil prices. I remember selling corn for almost $5 a bu, and almost a $1 a bu. Beans from $4.50 to 8.20. Oats from $1.10 to $3.20.

It all comes around. The difference is, I don't see the fluctuating grain prices having a real big impact on grocery shelf prices. Crude oil prices affect gas prices right away....

--->Paul

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caseyc

09-16-2005 13:02:59

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Re: OIL; Just to know in reply to paul, 09-16-2005 12:31:13

well said and great point paul!

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09-16-2005 12:19:17

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Re: OIL; Just to know in reply to jfp, 09-16-2005 08:05:47

You should investigate the meaning of "peak oil".

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chvet7

09-16-2005 11:26:46

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Re: OIL; Just to know in reply to jfp, 09-16-2005 08:05:47

The problem, as previously stated is that the oil companies are reaping profits at record levels. Unlike most other products, almost all of us can't due with less gas than we use.
If I could drive less I would. The oil companies can raise their prices all they and we all still have to buy. Like most of you, I have to go to work. I need gas to do that. Their profit margins show that they know this and they continue to stick it to us. Just remember Bush and Cheney are oil people. Their holdings are profiting too. Rest assured they will never do anything to hamper oil companies profits and price gouging.

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Cynicism Runs Rampant

09-16-2005 14:20:16

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Re: OIL; Just to know in reply to chvet7, 09-16-2005 11:26:46

Spoken like a true communist.

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Jerry Cent. Mi.

09-16-2005 15:58:59

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Re: OIL; Just to know in reply to Cynicism Runs Rampant, 09-16-2005 14:20:16

Buy their stock and share in the profit like the rest of us do. I do believe that normal profits are best for a company. My problem is I don't know how much oil goes into a gallon of gas. When I was in bussiness the oil companies gave out 3 year contracts on Plastic prices. I think they bury the cost that they can't recover in the gas prices.

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Mike M

09-16-2005 09:36:49

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Re: OIL; Just to know in reply to jfp, 09-16-2005 08:05:47

Your right as lately I've been kicking myself for not getting into the oil and/or cell phone business.

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jfp

09-16-2005 10:03:12

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Re: OIL; Just to know in reply to Mike M, 09-16-2005 09:36:49

The latest rage to invest in now is broadband compaines. Broadband elimnates or rather it combines phone,TV,computer,cell phone, security alarm, survelance cameras, and radio. Also anything else that may be invented in the future requireing waves in the electro magnetic fields. I don't know if this is going to be a good service in the beginning or not, but I think all the bugs will get worked out as time goes by.

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Illinois Boy

09-16-2005 08:16:51

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Re: OIL; Just to know in reply to jfp, 09-16-2005 08:05:47

jfp,
I agree with some of what you've said - but...
For me it's not about the REAL price of anything.
Rather, it's all about honesty. The President or Congress does not control oil companies. Congress can step in, but in a free market society, that's not always the the best way to resolve issues.
What we are seeing is companies, like Exxon Mobile, that are not happy with 140 billion dollars in profit. (THAT'S PROFIT - One heck-uv-a living)
It is simply greed...
As far as making it big - I will not compromise my convictions for anything, especially money. They are convictions - not preferences, and there is a difference.

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Matt from CT

09-16-2005 09:56:46

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Where Congress does have a role... in reply to Illinois Boy, 09-16-2005 08:16:51

>What we are seeing is companies, like Exxon >Mobile, that are not happy with 140 billion >dollars in profit. (THAT'S PROFIT - One heck-uv-
>a living)

Things like dropping the gas tax at a time of tight supply doesn't help.

Lower cost = more demand, prices go up. Oil companies make more, U.S. Treasury gets less.

HOWEVER...

It's the income tax system that can temper these large profits.

There's a lot of really skewed stuff in our income tax system. If these companies are making 140B in profit, that should translate into 25-40B range going into the U.S. and State Treasuries...bet we don't see a fraction of it.

(And yes, we need incentives to reinvest, etc.)

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password gone again

09-16-2005 11:52:19

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Re: Where Congress does have a role... in reply to Matt from CT, 09-16-2005 09:56:46

140 billion in profit? NOT TRUE!

From the ExxonMobil 2004 Summary Statement of income:

Total revenues and other income $298,035,000,000
Total costs and other deductions $256,794,000,000

Income before taxes $41,241,000,000
Income taxes $15,911,000,000

Net income $25,330,000,000

Net Income per share of common stock $3.91, currently trading at $63.65 per share.

Of course, I wouldn't mind an annual income after taxes of 25 billion!

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RodinNS

09-16-2005 14:08:11

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Re: Where Congress does have a role... in reply to password gone again, 09-16-2005 11:52:19

A 6% dividend isn't exactly shabby either. Pretty good for buying a blue chip stock and siting on it, without too much worry. I wouldn't mind having a few thousand shares.....

Rod

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big fred

09-16-2005 14:30:00

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Re: Where Congress does have a role... in reply to RodinNS, 09-16-2005 14:08:11

Sounds like if you got an extra $65K layin' around you could get that 1000 shares. But you realize that just two years ago that same company's earnings were probably about a quarter that, along with the rest of the oil stocks. And as for their profits, much of that is plowed back in to exploration. They'd be crazy not to, with crude prices at record highs.

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Paul in Mich

09-16-2005 08:45:25

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Re: OIL; Just to know in reply to Illinois Boy, 09-16-2005 08:16:51

Illinois Boy, I too agree with most of what jpf says. It isnt the President or Congress that is the problem, although Congress has done its level best to raise taxes on fuel as well as state legislators. I also agree with you that there is Greed running Amok, however, I am a firm believer that when free enterprise and Supply and Demand Economics are allowed to operate freely, that greed also evens out. Its that way in any industry. If Banks overcharge in interest, they may enjoy a temporary winfall, but will be burdoned ultimately by their out of market practices as they will lend less money as a result. If a baker gouges for the price of bread, it will eventually sit on the shelf and collect mold. If the John Deere Dealer gouges the price of a Combine or Tractor, it too will sit and rust. We all need bread and farmers need equipment, but everyone will make adjustments which ultimately costs the gougers. Even Fuel, which we hold so dear, and deem to be a dire necessity can be controled somewhat by the consumer. I say, let the oil companies have their fun now, but they will pay for it in the end provided that free market forces are allowed to work with no regulatory interference from government. Bottom line is that Capitalism works every time. Its only when corrupted or compromised that it shows any failings.

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Midwest redneck

09-17-2005 03:24:03

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Re: OIL; Just to know in reply to Paul in Mich, 09-16-2005 08:45:25

Well said, hopefully in 15 years or so corn or sugar based ethanol will be in the cars and trucks and gasoline will be used a lot less. and the big oil companies will be screaming bloody murder when that happens. Or maybe the oil companies will have their grubby hands in that too.

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tlak

09-16-2005 16:22:04

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Re: OIL; Just to know in reply to Paul in Mich, 09-16-2005 08:45:25

The whole country can't wait ten years for the oil companies to get their dues. The gov should put a windfall tax on them and give the low income a rebate/grant to offset the high prices. On another note, if the pres says he responsible for Katrina and there were 1000 deaths, isn't he guilty of something?
He also said they would have to get rid of wasteful spending to pay for Katrina. Isn't he guilty of something if all this wasteful spending is going on, on his watch?

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john in la

09-16-2005 15:56:51

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Re: OIL; Just to know in reply to Paul in Mich, 09-16-2005 08:45:25

The problem with oil companies and the true Capitalism works every time statement is supply.

I can show you where some smaller companies have been trying to charge .10 to .25 a gallon less the past few days but the gas is not available.

Gas is sold at a rack on exchange basis. You own a loading rack in Mich. and I own a loading rack in La.
Buyers of my gas can load at your rack or mine.
Buyers of your gas can load at your rack or mine.
At the end of the month we figure who owes who what and transfer it.

The problem comes in when you want 1.75 for your gas and I want 2.00. I just cut your allocation at my rack forcing buyers to buy my higher priced gas.

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Duane H

09-16-2005 13:54:10

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Re: OIL; Just to know in reply to Paul in Mich, 09-16-2005 08:45:25

Very well said. If we want to make an impact start being smarter about using fuel which will lower demand which will force the prices down. In the end we will win double because we will be using less fuel at a lower price. No one is forcing us to buy large gas sucking vehicles. We can buy small vehicles and use less gas.

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Illinois Boy

09-16-2005 11:27:39

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Re: OIL; Just to know in reply to Paul in Mich, 09-16-2005 08:45:25

Paul in Mich
Well said my friend...

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Old Pokey

09-16-2005 12:49:13

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Re: OIL; Just to know in reply to Illinois Boy, 09-16-2005 11:27:39

I'll go along with that. Very well said indeed.

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