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Fuel saver

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Butcher

09-18-2005 16:58:05




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I found this interesting. I wonder if its legit.




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Redmud

09-19-2005 11:20:22




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 Re: Fuel saver in reply to Butcher, 09-18-2005 16:58:05  
Any time the price of fuel gets the people worked up, these guys come out of their holes and work 24-7 untill things simmer down.



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jfp

09-19-2005 05:51:07




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 Re: Fuel saver in reply to Butcher, 09-18-2005 16:58:05  
I read all the post and thought some were comical. The device is not a replacement for gas. It is to make gas burn cleaner, longer, and more efficently. Did it say 30 to 40 percent more? That means a gallon of gas could last as long as one and half gallons or more. I could use a half gallon for every gallon I buy , but the device cost so much, how can everyday people afford this. If it comes into production on new cars then will a new car cost seven grand extra? A great invention yes, but not yet cost effective. I can remember when microwave ovens came out. They were so expensive, few people had them. Now you can buy one for fifty bucks. That's a far drop from the 600 dollars that they cost when first introduced !!

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MarkB_MI

09-18-2005 19:38:32




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 Re: Fuel saver in reply to Butcher, 09-18-2005 16:58:05  
"It's a scientific fact that adding hydrogen to a combustion chamber will cause a cleaner burn."

Huh? That may be true, but the article doesn't provide any evidence that the infinitesimal amount of hydrogen his generator produces will have any effect at all.

I can't believe a reputable newspaper would ever even use the phrase "it's a scientific fact...".



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John in Nebraska

09-18-2005 19:52:36




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 Re: Fuel saver in reply to MarkB_MI, 09-18-2005 19:38:32  
Didn't the JD D of the 20s use some water as a combustion aid? In the 60s, there were water bottle add-ons, put a gallon of water into the engine in a hundred miles or so. Some guys with Fords, would lift the air cleaner lid, pour in almost two gallons of water, the shape of the metal aircleaner allowed this, and was also outside the paper filter, was said to give a 15-20 percent boost to gas milage. As the engine ran, it drew in this moist air, which is denser.

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MarkB_MI

09-18-2005 20:05:44




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 Re: Fuel saver in reply to John in Nebraska, 09-18-2005 19:52:36  
John,

I'm not familiar with the use of water injection on older tractors, but it could certainly have been done, perhaps to get the tractor to run on the fuels of the day. Water injection is commonly used, but not as a fuel. Adding water cools the combustion chamber and reduces detonation. I think some of the WWII piston engine aircraft used water injection at very high power settings so the engine didn't blow up from all the supercharger boost.

However, this guy's invention, as I understand it, generates hydrogen for use as a fuel, rather than using water to cool the air/fuel mixture.

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Hurst

09-18-2005 19:45:27




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 Re: Fuel saver in reply to MarkB_MI, 09-18-2005 19:38:32  
Nitrogen is about 78.1% of the atmosphere. If you run a car off of pure oxygen and hydrogen, the two most conbustable gasses in the atmosphere, it means that you have more volume combust. Normally if 78.1% was nitrogen in the combustion chamber, that is that much that won't combust because nitrogen will not combust. If it is reduced to minamal amounts, you can get a hotter and more powerful combustion with less fuel. Also, one of the most dangerous emissions is NO from exhaust. Overall, it takes less fuel to combust the gasses and the emissions are not as dangerous. I am about 95% sure about it, maybe I should ask my chem teacher to explain it in class? Kind of a neat concept though.

Hurst

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Sid

09-18-2005 21:28:06




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 Re: Fuel saver in reply to Hurst, 09-18-2005 19:45:27  
"If you run a car off of pure oxygen and hydrogen, the two most conbustable gasses in the atmosphere," Unless something has changed since I have gone to school, oxygen is not combustable. It supports combustion.



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Hurst

09-19-2005 08:44:21




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 Re: Fuel saver in reply to Sid, 09-18-2005 21:28:06  
Your right. Thats what I get for trying to explain Chemistry @ 11 on a Sunday night :). Thanks for pointing that out. Oxygen is what allows combustion and therefore is what combines to the the atoms of the combusted molecules. Nothing has changed since you have gone to school with oxygen :).

Hurst



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Johnski

09-18-2005 18:56:56




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 Re: Fuel saver in reply to Butcher, 09-18-2005 16:58:05  
This months Popular Mechanics has a write up on all of the fuel saving gizmo"s out there now and they concluded that none of them work. One of them even caused an engine fire on the test rig. A modern engine is already burning 99 percent of the fuel anyways so to make it 97 percent would be a loss. A good article, more than one gizmo actually caused a loss of power and fuel economy. Cow magnets don"t work either but at least they won"t hurt your engine. ;>)

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old

09-18-2005 17:57:21




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 Re: Fuel saver in reply to Butcher, 09-18-2005 16:58:05  
Sure sounds good but what is it going to cost to ad the a car or truck. Since it only uses the hydrogen to help with the gas burn I could see how a small amount of water would go a long way.



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Hurst

09-18-2005 19:47:25




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 Re: Fuel saver in reply to old, 09-18-2005 17:57:21  
Keep reading it. It has 4 pages to it. Look when you finish the last page. Says a 20 lb unit costs 7500 and that is max price of a unit. It is pretty neat.

Hurst



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old

09-18-2005 21:02:13




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 Re: Fuel saver in reply to Hurst, 09-18-2005 19:47:25  
Yep I didn't read it all, sure would take a lot of driveing at a 20% increase to make it worth that type of $$



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sawtooth

09-18-2005 17:41:14




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 Re: Fuel saver in reply to Butcher, 09-18-2005 16:58:05  
Sure hope it's legit and the "oil companies don't buy it out and keep if off the market" as we've heard before. One thing I wonder, article says it uses a small reservoir of distilled water and other chemicals and this lasts 80 hours of engine operation? How much energy can be in that small amount of water etc.?



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Hurst

09-18-2005 19:25:39




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 Re: Fuel saver in reply to sawtooth, 09-18-2005 17:41:14  
Well, I have some chemistry formuals to throw in here. Pure H2O in a liquid state has a density of approx 1 gram per 1 mL. So say it has a 1L resavoir, not too big, not too small. That is 1000 mL. That is approx 1000 grams of h2o molecules in the liquid state. divied 1000 by the molar mass of H2O (18.02 grams) and you get 55.5 moles of H20 molecules (1 mole=6.02x10^23 molecules which is A LOT as in you couldn't count that high if you spent your whole life counting). Anyway... You have 2 atoms of Hydrogen per a molecule of H20, so therefore you have 111 moles of Hydrogen and 55.5 moles of Oxygen. 1 mole=22.4 L at 20 degrees celcius. That gives you 2486 L of hydrogen gas and 1243 L of oxygen gas. That is a total of 3729 Liters of gas to be used for combustion. Confusing but true, hope I didn't just make things too confusing. If you want, I can try to explain electrolysis too :D. LOL

Hurst

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Davis In SC

09-18-2005 20:05:42




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 Re: Fuel saver in reply to Hurst, 09-18-2005 19:25:39  
Hurst do all those moles leave humps in your yard ??? LOL All kidding aside, although I am no Chemist, I get your point... All these claims about hydrogen from water... they forget it takes more energy to separate the Oxygen & Hydrogen, than the energy they get back out of it. My business partner told me about his uncle that made a living during the depression. He traveled around selling a "Magic" additive, to make a car run on water, & even demonstrated it to customers... the secret was... he had a hidden tank in the car, that held gasoline.....

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Mike (WA)

09-19-2005 08:33:46




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 Re: Fuel saver in reply to Davis In SC, 09-18-2005 20:05:42  
While it does take more energy to electrolyze water than you get out of it, I think it works in this application because you're using the excess capacity of the alternator, which would otherwise be wasted. Has something to do with ampacity, I think.



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buickanddeere

09-18-2005 20:59:00




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 Re: Fuel saver in reply to Davis In SC, 09-18-2005 20:05:42  
Your are correct. It's just another perpetual motion device scam. The ambulance service Manager in Bruce County Ontario was either poor decission maker. Or he was paid off under the table. He is having the fleet converted to these "gas passers".



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Rustyj14

09-19-2005 17:30:39




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 Re: Fuel saver in reply to buickanddeere, 09-18-2005 20:59:00  
Back in the 30's, i was around 10 yrs. old, i would go to the county Fair, with my Grampaw and Uncle! Oh, what wondrous things to see!! And do! But there was a man there, had a Large Packard Roadster, or convertible, Who was selling a gizmo to give better gas mileage! This device would plug into the distributor cap, after you pulled out the coil wire, then you put that wire into the other end, and since the engine was running roughly before installation, after it was installed, that durn engine just smoothed out and ran great! Now, the man always stood on a board, and when he leaned over the engine to do his trick, the engine did its trick! But not many noticed! My cousin and i, being very inquisitive about such matters, finally saw the wire leading out from under that board, up into the engine compartment! We never figured out just what it did, but we knew it was a trick! Old Uncle John bought one to put in his old Terraplane (Hudson), but after he tried it, the thing ended up in the crick! Not the car--the device! Only cost $3, but back then $3 was a good bit of money to waste on a gadget that didn't work!

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