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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

Dakota pickup engines

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Rich Iowa

10-03-2005 17:59:00




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I have a 1991 Dodge Dakota with the 2.5L I4 cylinder engine and 5 speed manual tranny. I have a feeling the engine won"t last much longer. I was thinking of throwing another 2.5L or a little V6 in. However, I don"t know what size V6s dodge made that would work. I don"t need a huge engine as the truck is used mainly going to town and back and forth to work. I just put a new clutch and two tires on the pickup, and it get good milage, so I"d prefer to keep it as long as possible. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, Rich

P.S. how about any diesel engines that might work? I know Ford had a diesel in their Ranger for a couple years.

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cdmn

10-05-2005 21:34:40




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 Re: Dakota pickup engines in reply to Rich Iowa, 10-03-2005 17:59:00  
I had the same pickup. 2wheel drive. Didn't have any trouble while I owned it, except the suction hose in the fuel pump fell off inside the tank. Could have been a costly repair, but I fixed it with a little wire.
A few years later, the Dakotas switched to the four cylinder Jeep engine. Don't know if it used a different transmission. It must have been a tougher engine than the Mopar OHC engine. I had an 82 K-car that I drove for 200,000 miles, but I had to spend several weekends doing things to the cylinder head. I later bought a Jeep Commanche 2wd 4.0 six cylinder 5 speed. That's a real sportstruck! I believe they no longer make that engine. It was a good one.

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Bryan In Iowa

10-05-2005 06:00:37




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 Re: Dakota pickup engines in reply to Rich Iowa, 10-03-2005 17:59:00  
Forgot to mention that I have exhaust manifolds, TBI unit, motor mounts etc.Pretty much everything you need to make this easy swap . Even have radiator that should work for it . Oh ,,did i mention CHEAP ? lol



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Rich Iowa

10-05-2005 18:59:19




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 Re: Dakota pickup engines in reply to Bryan In Iowa , 10-05-2005 06:00:37  
Where in Iowa are you located Bryan? I"m just west of Des Moines a few minutes. I was wondering, does the 3.9 use the same holes to bolt up to the tranny as the 2.5? I need to get it in the shop, find out what exactlly went wrong. I"ll keep you in mind, thanks for the help, Rich



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Bryan in Iowa

10-05-2005 19:50:55




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 Re: Dakota pickup engines in reply to Rich Iowa, 10-05-2005 18:59:19  
I'm in Cedar Rapids /Marion . my folks live in DesMoines , I get down there a lot . Everythign should bolt in as far as i know. I rebuilt this motor in my shop for customer awhile back. Bored , new pistons, cam , crank ground , heads sufaced and valves ,seats ground.Pretty much complete rebuild. Customer decided he didn't want the van anymore. I ended up with the van , and motor . Transmission was bad in van. I didn't want to fix that and put anymore $$ into it ,,so motor has just been sitting on stand . You'd need to run new exhaust ,,or check out old exhaust from van ,,,it may work at least as far back as the cat, Anyways,,, would sure wake your dakota up !! lol Any questions feel free to give me a call at shop . Thanks Bryan

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dhermesc

10-04-2005 08:43:49




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 Re: Dakota pickup engines in reply to Rich Iowa, 10-03-2005 17:59:00  
A 4 cylinder diesel will be coming back to Ford in a couple years. Right now they have two small diesels in pickups and small SUVs in Europe and South Africa that will not handle the high sulfer content of US deisel fuel, in a couple years that changes and Ford will start importing those engines for installation in the Ranger (and Ranger sized) pickups.

With that many miles I'd go back the the 2.5, or start over with a newer vehicle. No point in getting that much money wrapped up in a pickup with so little value.

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26Red

10-04-2005 07:37:26




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 Re: Dakota pickup engines in reply to Rich Iowa, 10-03-2005 17:59:00  
Your best bet is to drop in a remanufactured 2.5L. Try a advanced auto parts- you enven get a warranty!

I have seen the cummins 4bt engine in a dakota- of course it was custom installation....but it was pretty easy on the fuel.



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26Red

10-04-2005 07:47:48




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 conversion photos! in reply to 26Red, 10-04-2005 07:37:26  
third party image

Look at this!



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26Red

10-04-2005 08:00:17




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 details! in reply to 26Red, 10-04-2005 07:47:48  
This was reposted from another site:
----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- -

"As I reported a few weeks ago, the long time coming Dodge Cummins Dakota project is on the road. I now have some pics loaded up on the web, sorry no thumbnails or anything fancy. There are 4 as follows:

www.execpc.com/~jemery/Pics/cumm1.jpg
www.execpc.com/~jemery/Pics/cumm2a.jpg
www.execpc.com/~jemery/Pics/cumm4a.jpg
www.execpc.com/~jemery/Pics/cumm5a.jpg

The only thing missing is the hood and the A/C hoses.

Just a little background. We bought the truck new in 91 for a business truck. Within a week after buying it I had the rear springs out and had another leaf added. Seems to be a common problem, I had to do the same thing to my Toyota in 82, they must spring these things for people that don’t ever haul anything. The electronic ignition died the first year. Then about three years ago the rear axle started making all kinds of strange noises. The garage that my partner takes it to (I was not driving the truck at this time) said that the axle was falling apart and that they could not fix it, go to the dealer. Screw that, having done many Dana’s from 23’s to 70’s, I took the thing apart and reset the carrier bearing adjusters as they had loosened up.

About 2 years ago or less I was roaming around a heavy/medium truck yard and saw a pile of 4BT Cummins engines with THM-400 trannys attached. A friend of mine who is well seasoned in Diesel conversions looked at me and said "you know", and I said "yea" (must have been Diesel telepathy). At that time the Dakota was approaching 150k miles and the mileage was a pathetic 16 and I was now driving it whilst the partner got a new vehicle. The guy at the yard gave me the keys to a potato chip truck and told me to take it for a drive, which we did. This particular truck had 70k miles on it. I gave him around $2k and he pulled the pack out of the truck and junked the rest for the aluminum, that’s where all the other 4Bt’s were coming from, potato chip delivery trucks. I got the engine/tranny and all the parts I wanted related to that such as shifter, drive shaft, air cleaner, etc.

We got the thing back to the shop and started working on mounts for A/C and vacuum pump and moved the alternator and such. Also decided to add a Morse cable tranny modulator as they came with a fixed one, it shifted at X rpm no matter what. The engine used an 8 groove serpentine belt and so I added an 8 groove small GM alternator (105A) and a 10 groove Sanden A/C compressor and a flat pulley (running off the back side of the belt) Ford vacuum pump. I wanted the alternator and A/C up high and I wanted the A/C where the alternator was for plumbing reasons so the alternator had to go on the other side and due to hood height problems it had to be on the small side. The alternator on my suburban became a sample and it fit OK, so just got another of the same thing. I also machined the grooves off the fan idler (the thing that one might think is a water pump but it’s not) so as to drive it backwards. Had to do some major rework of the intake manifold cover plate and the tube connecting the turbo’s compressor discharge to the intake cover for hood clearance reasons. Also added a flame primer from a Perkins Diesel, all of $20, rather than pay $600 plus for the Cummins electric heater unit. The first test run of the new belt/pulley system broke the alternator case and prior to that the belt kept running off the crank pulley to the inside. Added another brace for the alternator and the pulley problem was caused by Cummins not having a skirt on the back side of the crank pulley, so I made a new one with a skirt. Second test run (on a skid) was perfect.

While this was going on the rear axle fell apart again. I had picked up a Ford 9" from a Bronco to re-work for the Dakota primarily because I needed the 2.5 gear ratio to run the supplied THM-400 with no overdrive, and it also was a much stronger axle that that 7-1/4" thing. Which in my opinion is the correct way to design a truck, pick the axle ratio for your 1:1 high gear, screw the overdrive, they are nothing buy marketing gimmicks. Anyway, I decided to put the Ford axle under the truck with 3.5 gears while still running the V6 which turned out to be a smart move, that was one less "project" to figure out later. Switching the gears back to 2.5 later was a breeze. Also the 11" brakes on the Bronco axle are MUCH better matched to the Dakota’s front disks, my braking effort increased dramatically and yet I still cannot lock up front or back easily on their own. I also put in a "True-Trac" which I just love.

So then about 2 months ago it was just one of those days, the engine/tranny had been sitting on a skid for 6 months or more and the position of the moon and the phase of Jupiter, I had some people over at the shop and we just, with little discussion, decided that this was that day and we pulled out the V6 now with 202k miles on it and stuck the 4BT in there and began the long installation process. I added a new cross member (removable) ahead of the main one under the engine. The front engine mounts sit flat on that new cross member. The Cummins engineering book makes a big deal about not mounting a 4 cylinder Diesel to rigidly. So I did some tests on some different mounts and it turns out that the mounts from the original V-6 were soft enough and so I used them. The motor does vibrate a bit at idle but I can imagine it would shake the truck worse if the mounts were stiffer. Then came the oil pan. I ended up using the flange and the first 1-1/2 inches of the pan, the rest was fabricated from scratch to fit the space exactly. I decided to do this with the pan rather than touch the cross member which the front suspension and the steering rack were all tied to. Ended up going wide and deep to maintain the 3 gallon capacity, also ran tubes through the pan in 5 places and used long studs so the pan is actually held from underneath. I figured with the idle vibration and the added weight of my additions I’d rather have it held from below that to hang totally from the flange. Also due to tight clearances between the front of the pan sump and the cross member I added a strut from the back of the tranny going back to the center bearing cross member to keep the entire assembly from moving forward during braking.

Other little items were mounting the Morse floor shifter in the old hole left by the 5 speed and gutting the wiring leaving only what I needed. Radiator is from a V8 of the same year. In the pictures the A/C hoses are not installed yet, it seems that Parker is having delivery problems and I just this week got the fittings I had been waiting 6+ weeks for.

As I reported earlier I am now consistently getting 26 mpg around town. So far I’ve put 2k miles on but I have not yet tried a long highway run nor have I tried towing anything yet.

Only remaining issue now that A/C hoses are on is getting the front to sit at the right height. It dropped 1-1/2" and an alleged 2" lift kit from Rough Country raised it 4-1/2", so need to remove the spacer and cut in half, that should put me right were I want to be."
----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- --

Wish I had the shop space and time to do this conversion! More info is on the TDR website.

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Bryan In Iowa

10-04-2005 07:33:50




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 Re: Dakota pickup engines in reply to Rich Iowa, 10-03-2005 17:59:00  
Rich ,,,your lucky day !! I have a 3.9 V6 sitting on engine stand here in my shop . This has been rebuilt, everything in it is new, Customer bailed out on the job ,, I ended up with whole vehicle . 89-90 full size van . I have the computer and everything for it . Give me a call if interested .
319-373-0636 . CHEAP ,, i just want to recoup my cost on parts .



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Alberta Mike

10-04-2005 06:51:53




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 Re: Dakota pickup engines in reply to Rich Iowa, 10-03-2005 17:59:00  
Here's a little story that might shed some light on the subject. There is a little machine shop in Edmonton that works only on cylinder heads, nothing else whatsoever. When I need valves ground, head work done, etc. I always go there. He does good work at a reasonably price and is 100% honest. Last time I took in a set of valves for grinding I asked him "keeping busy"? He laughed and said "very busy .... thank god for Chrysler". Now I hope this doesn't start a color war here, I'm just relaying a story that I personally was involved with and the comment was from a guy who made his living fixing cylinder heads. By the way, I have two Chrysler products myself, an '87 Dodge 600 4-cylinder and an '87 Ram 50 (Mitsubishi) pickup.

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JDknut

10-04-2005 03:52:59




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 Re: Dakota pickup engines in reply to Rich Iowa, 10-03-2005 17:59:00  
How about tossing a 4BT Cummins into that Dakota. You might have to beef up the front suspension a taste, but then you'd have a decent little rig that would get great mileage, good power, excellent durability and a good little brother to the Ram 6BT. 4BT's were used as extra cost options in Chevy and other step-in vans.



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charley hellickson

10-03-2005 21:53:35




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 Re: Dakota pickup engines in reply to Rich Iowa, 10-03-2005 17:59:00  
work and expense to do that.computer and wiring different and a lot of other things.cooling system all different.the 3.9 is only v6 made for dakota.all the others are made for front wheel drive.i am not sure what they changed to put 4cyl in dakota.if you get another 2.5 check the motor mounts.the 3.9 is a 318 with 2 cylinders cut off.



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Fawteen

10-04-2005 01:52:15




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 Re: Dakota pickup engines in reply to charley hellickson, 10-03-2005 21:53:35  
I've got an '88 2wd with the 3.9. Didn't realize it was a shortened 318, no WONDER it's such a bullet proof little engine!

Still running strong, replaced valve cover gaskets twice, one rusted out oil pan, and a starter. I'll keep it until the wheels fall off it.



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Tyler from UT

10-03-2005 20:53:51




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 Re: Dakota pickup engines in reply to Rich Iowa, 10-03-2005 17:59:00  
First what makes you think you need to put a new engine in your truck or how do you know its wearing out? I work for Dodge in the service departmant now from what i know nine times out of ten it is very under serviced. Have you ever done a 30,000 incriment service? That question for lots of people is no. How many miles do you have on it? lots of those little dakotas have the wheels drove right off because they are pretty stout and do have some spunk, 250,000 is good for a work truck. I think you could manage that if your driving to and from work and not beating it up. sorry about jumping subjects but is any abnormal noises, nocks, pings, clunks,present if not your probably going to throw money at a lost cause. Now for the size of V6's are 3.0, 3.3, 3.8 and thiers one more i think but cant think of it off the top of my head, now gas mileage is about 15-18. Hope this helps and rememmber its your money your can do with it as you please. Good luck!

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Rich Iowa

10-04-2005 04:45:32




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 Re: Dakota pickup engines in reply to Tyler from UT, 10-03-2005 20:53:51  
Tyler, my truck has been running pretty rough lately. Starting Sun. morning, As I parked my truck to go hunting, I noticed some white smoke coming from the exhaust, and I noticed a slight scent of anti-freeze. I smelled the exhaust, it didn"t smell like anti-freeze, looked like moisture coming out of the exhaust. Started smoking again on the way home, and at work yesterday. On the way home last night, I stopped at a stop sign and noticed something didn"t feel right. I turned off the radio and the truck was rockin". When I got home, which was only 1-2 miles more, I opened the hood and the engine is rocking, not vibrating, but making major movement, still puffing out the white "cloud". My brother thinks I may have lost a piston. I will look closer tonight after work. The truck has 140k miles on it and I"ve had it for 2, going on 3 years, and would like to keep it a little longer if I can. Thanks for the help, Rich

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BobMo

10-03-2005 19:17:25




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 Re: Dakota pickup engines in reply to Rich Iowa, 10-03-2005 17:59:00  
Just yesterday you were gonna get a jeep because you were so impressed by one that got in water up to/into the engine compartment. Now you want to spend a bunch of money to put another engine in something of limited value anyway. I think your just making conversation. Why not just baby it along until you can get what you want. You'll be happier. Good luck.



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Rich Iowa

10-03-2005 19:55:36




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 Re: Dakota pickup engines in reply to BobMo, 10-03-2005 19:17:25  
Thanks for noticing my short attention span. Now, what were we talking about? :)

I was impressed with the jeep that"s for sure. This Dakota however, is paid off, and I just put a new clutch and tires on it. Doubt I could get the price of the clutch and tires out of it if I sold it as is with a bad engine. I was thinking maybe fixing this up, getting a Jeep to mess around in. Something for me to figure out. Thanks for replying Bob, you make a good point.

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kyhayman

10-03-2005 18:43:03




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 Re: Dakota pickup engines in reply to Rich Iowa, 10-03-2005 17:59:00  
I had a 91 Dakota with a factory 3.9L V-6. Great little engine. 19 MPG, and plenty of power. Pulled fully loaded fertilizer buggies with it. Lasted as long as I kept the truck (229,000 miles).



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wayne2

10-03-2005 20:16:05




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 Re: Dakota pickup engines in reply to kyhayman, 10-03-2005 18:43:03  
Did almost as well with 96, I liked that v6 for sure180,000 or darn close.



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Rich Iowa

10-03-2005 19:04:32




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 Re: Dakota pickup engines in reply to kyhayman, 10-03-2005 18:43:03  
My 2.5L I4 gets 24 MPG. Was your truck a man. or auto? I"d like a little more power to get up hills w/o have to downshift all the time. Thanks for the help, Rich



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paul

10-03-2005 22:23:42




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 Re: Dakota pickup engines in reply to Rich Iowa, 10-03-2005 19:04:32  
My 92 long box, 4wd, manual, with that V-6 gets right around 19-20 mpg in all types of driving averaged together.

--->Paul



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