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a rumor I've heard

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Rich Iowa

11-01-2005 18:35:29

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I heard a rumor the other day that Ford Motor Co. bought Cummins Engines. After Dodge"s contract with Cummins expires in 2008, Cummins will no longer be suppling the great diesels for Dodge. I"ve also heard that Navistar won"t be making the Powerstrokes for Ford much longer. Is this good timing for Ford, or was somebody tring to make my day.

I also found a great magazine for all you diesel nuts; Dieselpowermag.com If it has a diesel, they"ll eventually write about it. Only on thier 4th issue, looks like it has a lot of potential.

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Rich Iowa

11-02-2005 19:26:20

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that's a bummer in reply to Rich Iowa, 11-01-2005 18:35:29

I was looking forward to a Ford having a Cummins. Oh well, Think my next truck will be a Dodge w/ the 12 valve Cummins and a 5 spd. That way I upset everybody, but I"ll keep the Ford. Thanks for dismantling the rumor for me :)

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barnrat

11-02-2005 04:39:23

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Re: a rumor I've heard in reply to Rich Iowa, 11-01-2005 18:35:29

Cummins is a big employer in my area so news about cummins is big around here. First cummins is making record profits they attribute it mostly to sales of dodge truck with their engine in it. People buy the dodge truck for the cummins engine and dodge knows that, considering that it would make more sense for dodge to use a mercedes considering their parent company. Ford would be smart to talk to someone like Sisu as they make great engines and remain unaffiliated.

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JDknut

11-02-2005 04:00:34

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Re: a rumor I've heard in reply to Rich Iowa, 11-01-2005 18:35:29

That old chestnut is like the Energizer Bunny, just keeps on going and going and going... Ford owned a small amount of Cummins stock and Cummins was and is a supplier of engines to Ford. FOr as while in the 90's, Cummins supplied most of the engines (B's and C's) in the medium duty series (F-700 and up), Even now, the B is an option in the F650 as a step up from the powerjoke. But Ford never owned Cummins.

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charley hellickson

11-01-2005 23:47:49

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Re: a rumor I've heard in reply to Rich Iowa, 11-01-2005 18:35:29

some years ago ford bought a small percentage of cummins and a couple years later sold it back. when CDC was formed and the new plant built, cummins and case sat down and each one laid half of the money on the table.each one owns 50% of company.case takes out all the engines they use. cummins sells to whoever wants to buy them.this was OK.with case,they got 50 cents of every dollar sold.the case people were telling that story at the big farm show at Allaman Ia. back then.

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colekicker

11-01-2005 22:03:32

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Re: a rumor I've heard in reply to Rich Iowa, 11-01-2005 18:35:29

Well, that is an old rumor. I just can't buy it. DC is smart enough to know the price of the name on the engine. If they moved away from a Cummins engine, it would be the death of that truck. Now, Ford's best move would be to get an engine from someone else. Get a good engine. Powerjokes are all they are. If they could put a different name on an Iveco, they could have a fuel effecient engine with a ton of power. But, its owned by Fiat group (CNH's parent). Plus, they are in a joint venture with Cummins to produce CNH engines, what you see in their equipment. So, what about Perkins. I saw a magazine article a few years back with a Dodge with a Perkins in it. But, Perkins has some tie in with CAT, but I can't remember what exactly it is. I wouldn't expect any changes in the near future. Will be interesting to see what the horsepower upgrades will be to the Powerjoke and the Cummins since the Duramax is going up to 360 hp in '06.

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JDknut

11-02-2005 04:08:24

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Re: a rumor I've heard in reply to colekicker, 11-01-2005 22:03:32

Your post was well said! As an alternative to Cummins, the Perkins 1000 series (also badged as Cat 3056) would be a good choice for the pickup market. Detroit 40 series. And these engines are sleeved which gives them more class. Deere makes an engine that would be a good choice, and has wet sleeves to boot. For a while Deere dabbled in truck engines but I think that fizzled out. Mercedes truck engines, these are very good, but I don't know whether they have sleeves. Most likely wet sleeves in the bigger ones but I am not sure about the smaller sizes. But for sure powerjokes and durapukes are not in the same league as Cummins, let alone these others. Good HP numbers but basically throwaway, over-electroniced consumer crap.

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Nebraska Cowman

11-02-2005 03:36:12

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Re: a rumor I've heard in reply to colekicker, 11-01-2005 22:03:32

Nice thoughts but with $2.20 gasoline and diesel at $3+ The diesel pickups are already "dead"

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TIMBO

11-02-2005 06:09:11

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Re: a rumor I've heard in reply to Nebraska Cowman, 11-02-2005 03:36:12

I PAY 2.89 PER GALLON FOR DIESEL FOR MY DURAMAX EQUIPPED GMC, BUT I ALSO GET ANYWHERE FROM 18-22 MPG, WHEN I JUST TRADED IN A CHEVY WITH THE 6.0 LITER AND WAS ONLY GETTING 10-12 MPG. 60 CENTS MORE PER GALLON, BUT 8-12 MPG BETTER, YOU DO THE MATH. PLUS MORE MILES BETWEEN OIL CHANGES, SURE I HAVE TO BUY A FEW MORE QUARTS OF OIL BETWEEN CHANGES, BUT FEWER OIL FILTERS. I CAN CHANGE OIL LESS OFTEN AND SAVE TIME. REMEMBER, "TIME IS MONEY" AND I HAVE TO STOP AND GET FUEL LESS OFTEN AS I USED TO.

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RustyFarmall

11-02-2005 07:31:33

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Re: a rumor I've heard in reply to TIMBO, 11-02-2005 06:09:11

Don't forget to figure in the extra $5,000 you spent to have a diesel.

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Can't even use my name

11-02-2005 18:32:12

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Re: a rumor I've heard in reply to RustyFarmall, 11-02-2005 07:31:33

Well that is where ya'll go wrong, buying a new truck and worrying about spending an extra 5K for the diesel. Who cares if ya buy new, you drive off the lot and suddenly your 40K truck is a 30K truck. Although being a diesel it is worth more resale. I just spent $5700 and bought a nice clean '96 6.5L Chevy with a lot of new expensive parts. Sure she don't have the power of those newer power plants but I could put 5K of mods on and have pretty much the same pulling truck as a 40K new truck.

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TIMBO

11-02-2005 07:54:24

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Re: a rumor I've heard in reply to RustyFarmall, 11-02-2005 07:31:33

Yes, but this engine should last 50,000 or 100,000 miles longer than a gas engine, meaning I will get more service out of this engine, not having to spend the extra money to replace it sooner, saving me money. Plus with the diesel option I gain higher trailering specs. from 10,300 gasoline to 15,500 diesel. Plus I get an extra 2 yrs./ 64,000 miles engine warranty

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RustyFarmall

11-02-2005 10:02:08

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Re: a rumor I've heard in reply to TIMBO, 11-02-2005 07:54:24

Don't bet on it, gas or diesel, you will get 200 to 250,000 on the odometer without any real problems, by then the rest of the truck will be worn out too so it's a wash.

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TIMBO

11-02-2005 10:49:12

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Re: a rumor I've heard in reply to RustyFarmall, 11-02-2005 10:02:08

Your opinion is well taken on longevity.I had a 1989 chevy with a 350 gas engine that had 225,000 miles on it and it still ran well. But I can pull more with the diesel. Besides I love to listen to the TURBO. ha,ha.

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Can't even use my name

11-02-2005 18:39:02

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Re: a rumor I've heard in reply to TIMBO, 11-02-2005 10:49:12

225,000 is a lot, at least I thought so but I have a buddy who has one of those heavy duty GM cargo vans that he delivers packages all over the country with and last week he was back in the area. Looked at the odometer and hit the ground. 450,000 miles! Absolutely only thing he has changed were the tires, brakes, alternator and water pump and the routine but FULL and THROUGH services such as plugs, filters, and maybe valve lash etc. Now that is impressive for any gas engine.

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Bob

11-01-2005 22:18:09

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Re: a rumor I've heard in reply to colekicker, 11-01-2005 22:03:32

You posted "But, Perkins has some tie in with CAT, but I can't remember what exactly it is."

The answer is, CAT BOUGHT Perkins in 1997.

(See link)

CAT Perkins 1997

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Davis In SC

11-01-2005 21:18:29

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Re: a rumor I've heard in reply to Rich Iowa, 11-01-2005 18:35:29

I heard that rumor back in the early 90's... At the time, Ford & Case /Tenneco did own a sizable portion of Cummins stock... The Cummins 5.9-6BT & it's little 4-cylinder brother is one of the most common engines around the world... But the biggest market for it is in Dodge Trucks. I do not think Cummins would risk losing the huge marketshare it holds... My bet is that they continue the alliance with Dodge...

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thejdman01

11-02-2005 04:16:21

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Re: a rumor I've heard in reply to Davis In SC, 11-01-2005 21:18:29

dodge dont amount to a pinch of owl as far as sales. traverse pettibone, marklift case etc etc etc dodge does sell quite a few cummins motors for cummins but in the whole scheme of things they dont really amount to a hill of beans in cummins sales.

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Pollster

11-02-2005 06:06:41

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Re: a rumor I've heard in reply to thejdman01, 11-02-2005 04:16:21

And how might you know that? Could you post any documented facts or figures, or is your post merely an opinion or "something you heard" like so many others?

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Engineer20

11-01-2005 21:17:26

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Re: a rumor I've heard in reply to Rich Iowa, 11-01-2005 18:35:29

Ford does not own Cummins. The new 2007 diesel is a Navistar (international) 6.4 twin turbo. Hopefully they learned from their mistakes with the 6.0.

I read an article about how Ford is in the red this third quarter because of all the warranty payouts on the 6.0.

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Jim J

11-01-2005 20:52:41

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Re: a rumor I've heard in reply to Rich Iowa, 11-01-2005 18:35:29

This is not a rumor. "Six in a row is the way to go"

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shoe

11-01-2005 20:11:05

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Re: a rumor I've heard in reply to Rich Iowa, 11-01-2005 18:35:29

I think you're right, it's just a rumor.

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Mike S 806/H

11-01-2005 19:26:13

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Re: a rumor I've heard in reply to Rich Iowa, 11-01-2005 18:35:29

I was told Ford will have a V8 Cummins, I was told this from a friend that works at Cummins, and Dodge will have a Mercedes-Benz Diesel

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Can't even use my name

11-01-2005 20:29:42

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Re: a rumor I've heard in reply to Mike S 806/H, 11-01-2005 19:26:13

Not sure about the Turds, er Furds, uh Fords... but I have heard Dodge was getting another brand of diesel and Mercedes sounds correct. The 5.9L was originally produced and used in the 94 series CaseIH tractors. A good engine by all means. Don't believe FoMoCo has enough brains or money to buy Cummins and this is about as old a rumor as they get.

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twopop

11-01-2005 19:01:57

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Re: a rumor I've heard in reply to Rich Iowa, 11-01-2005 18:35:29

NO ford did not buy out cummins.besides,the 6bt engine used in the dodge is not mfg.by cummins.cummins buys the engines from the consolidated engine co. which is a 50/50 partnership of cummins and caseih,ford would have to deal with all the employees of cummins since they own a lot of shares.also chrysler-benz is cummins engine companies biggest customer

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steve in in

11-02-2005 08:35:52

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Re: a rumor I've heard in reply to twopop, 11-01-2005 19:01:57

Then explain the Columbus Midrange Engine Plant or CMEP for short:) Last I knew about half of the B series were built in Rockymount and half in Columbus. It has been a while, though. I have been to both plants. Both build the engines for other manufactures too, including Ford and several motorhome chassis suppliers.

You are exactly right on Dodge being Cummins' largest customer. Cummins would not be in the shape they are now without that relationship. The over the road market share has plummeted due to, what else, warranty issues. The Signature series was a fiasco and nearly put them out of business.

As far as engine manufacturers and over the road truck builders goes, every one of them seems to have their hands in the others' pockets somehow.

The problem with the Dodge truck with a Cummins in it has always been that Dodge can't build a chassis and components that will hold up to the power of the B, ie; rearends, transmissions, body mounts, etc.

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Bob

11-01-2005 18:58:04

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Re: a rumor I've heard in reply to Rich Iowa, 11-01-2005 18:35:29

The rumor has persisted nearly since Biblical times that Ford owns Cummins. Who knows, it may finally be true! If so, though Cummins will need to update their website!

Link

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Redmud

11-01-2005 18:54:42

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Re: a rumor I've heard in reply to Rich Iowa, 11-01-2005 18:35:29

Ford does not own Cummins, that story has been going around for years. I haven't heard anything about Nav not supplying Ford with powerstroke engines. even if they did end the powerstroke, Ford would just come up with one even better.

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doodelbug

11-01-2005 20:07:18

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Re: a rumor I've heard in reply to Redmud, 11-01-2005 18:54:42

making a better engine than the powerstroke wouldnt be hard to do.

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Redmud

11-02-2005 10:55:17

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Re: a rumor I've heard in reply to doodelbug, 11-01-2005 20:07:18

I take it that you would rather ride in a Chevy or Dodge being towed, than to ride in the Ford tow truck?

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JDknut

11-02-2005 03:40:55

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Re: a rumor I've heard in reply to doodelbug, 11-01-2005 20:07:18

It would be easy to make a better engine than the powerjoke, but for sure Chevy Isuzu hasn't done it. Both have great power and numbers but basically a throw-away engine with too much electronic crap. The sad thing is that powerjokes own the ambulance market. The good thing is that at least you don't see durapukes in ambulances.

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wilamayb

11-02-2005 14:18:33

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Re: a rumor I've heard in reply to JDknut, 11-02-2005 03:40:55

Im not sure why the sleeved engine is so important. The cast iron bore will last as long as any truck body will last. What would be the benefit of having a sleeved engine if a non-sleeved engine can be built cheaper, and last as long as the truck body?? I am not disagreeing with the electronic garbage (Thats for sure). I would be completley satisfied if diesel engines were still manually fuel injected, so as not to have cam-postion sensors, high pressure oil pumps, and electronicly variarably veined turbochargers (LOL). The problem is that it is not going to happen. We wont be returning rail injection. We wont digress in the world of technology. New engines cant smoke according to uncle sam, and we as consumers want lots of power and great fuel mileage. The extreems of these are only possible with electronic additions to our engines.

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JDknut

11-03-2005 04:10:52

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Re: a rumor I've heard in reply to wilamayb, 11-02-2005 14:18:33

you are right about why have a long lasting engine that outlasts the body, good point, but then sleeved engines have more class. They are built as capital equipment, to be rebuilt again and again. But it does give a touch of class to have that type of equipment in your truck. But then if you trade every three years, it doesn't really matter that much. Then the durapukes and powerjokes are just fine. The Cummins is the only pickup engine that was designed primarily as a capital equipment engine (for tractors and bulldozers) before it was ever thought to be used in a pickup. And it is a sleevable block, with dry sleeves that can be pressed in after four (4) bores of the block. And they can last a million miles before the first bore. Thus my truck will turn to powder long before the engine gives out.

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TIMBO

11-02-2005 06:29:40

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Re: a rumor I've heard in reply to JDknut, 11-02-2005 03:40:55

I HAVE A GMC WITH A DURAMAX IN IT. PLEASE IF YOU HAVE EVIDENCE TO BACK UP YOUR CLAIMS THAT THE ISUZU ENGINES ARE JUNK PLEASE LET ME KNOW! THE 06" DURAMAX IS RATED AT 650 FT LBS. OF TORQUE, MINE HAS 520 FT LBS. SURELY A "JUNK" ENGINE WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO HANDLE 520 FT LBS LET ALONE 650 FT. LBS! YOU WOULD THINK THAT THE "BOTTOM" END WOULD "FLY APART"..... PLEASE ENLIGHTEN ME ON YOUR INFORMATION SOURCE!! OR ARE YOU JUST BIASED TOWARD THE INLINE 6 ENGINE WHICH HAVE CERTAINLY PROVED THEIR WORTH AND ARE VERY GOOD. I SURE DO SEE ALOT OF MEDIUM DUTY ISUZU TRUCKS OPERATING IN MY AREA, AND HAVE FOR QUITE SOME TIME!

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JDknut

11-03-2005 04:18:09

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Re: a rumor I've heard in reply to TIMBO, 11-02-2005 06:29:40

On your post, yes, I am biased toward inline sixes, I'll admit to some prejudice in that regard, and incidentally Isuzu makes a great six cylinder engine used by Chevy and GMC in their medium duty trucks. I have always said that durapukes and powerjokes have great numbers in HP and torque and can pull horse trailers over the Rockies with the best of them, and I never called these engines "junk" (except in joking) but they were designed primarily as light duty engines (it even says that on the emissions sticker on the engine), for trucks that get traded every three years. You don't see them in tractors, dozers, or generator sets, though. Doesnt make them bad, just lighter duty.

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TIMBO

11-03-2005 05:20:22

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Re: a rumor I've heard in reply to JDknut, 11-03-2005 04:18:09

Thank you JDknut for your input. I just wanted to get some input on these engines. I thought that I bought a good machine. All this negative talk about the Duramax was getting me worried. All I want to do with my truck is pull a gooseneck trailer with my tractors on it to some tractor pulls in the summertime, and have fun. I too am a JD nut as I have an old two cylinder 60 and a 4020 diesel w/turbocharger, both are still used on the farm. You called the Duramax a light duty engine, I guess thats why they are in light duty pickup trucks. But I've also seen them in GM's 4500 and up medium duty trucks.

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JDknut

11-03-2005 09:20:36

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Re: a rumor I've heard in reply to TIMBO, 11-03-2005 05:20:22

It is a good machine such as it is, Chevy trucks run forever. YOu have good taste in tractors as well. My Deere is a 2350 MFWD, and I had a 420 crawler. SOme day I'll have me a Waterloo Deere. The Duramax you see in the medium duty trucks is the 6-cylinder, altho the V-8 may be offered in the 4500 as a low budget option , etc. The 6500 and up offer the wet-sleeve six cylinder Duramax, which is a true heavy duty engine and I hear is a decent engine. My big boss just got a Duramax GMC pickup which he is as proud as punch of and loves to brag up and which I razz him about, too (but carefully as he IS my boss). LOL

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TIMBO

11-04-2005 05:16:53

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Re: a rumor I've heard in reply to JDknut, 11-03-2005 09:20:36

I definatley share your enthusiasm for the GREEN and YELLOW! It's good that you can razz your boss like that. I try not to brag about my stuff because when something does happen to them, and it WILL, then you really take a razzin'. HA HA.
I'm new to this site and would like to get to know you folks. It sounds like there is alot of good people here with lots of knowledge.

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d-c-741

11-02-2005 10:12:44

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Re: a rumor I've heard in reply to TIMBO, 11-02-2005 06:29:40

Well I know of a fellow who had 3 engines and 2 transmissions,in 39000 miles/All the Motors had Broken Crankshafts,The truck was being used to haul a 20 Ft cattle trailer.He owned a Dodge before with Cummins,never had any truble with it,just want to try somthing different,OUCH with the Chevy,The chevy was traded as soon as the 3rd engine was put in,For Another DODGE!!!!! Just rember General Motors Makes The most Scrap in the World.

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TIMBO

11-02-2005 10:40:06

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Re: a rumor I've heard in reply to d-c-741, 11-02-2005 10:12:44

Thats pretty extreme and hard to believe for that matter. It almost seems pretty unlikely to break one crankshaft let alone THREE! And transmissions too. How come this isn't a widespread problem that we should have all heard about by now, I've heard of fuel injector problems but not 3 engine crankshafts for the same customer. Or do we just have a hardcore dodge fan! I just want to know the TRUTH about my purchase, thats all!! I'm not trying to start an argument about the big three truck manufacturers, that argument will never die. If that claim is true, then the guy is obviously needing a MACK truck to pull whatever he is really pulling!!!

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the tractor vet

11-01-2005 18:44:44

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Re: a rumor I've heard in reply to Rich Iowa, 11-01-2005 18:35:29

I have been hearing this for the last ten years . So i guess we will just have to wait and see and if Dorf does it will have to redesign there truck so that cummins will fit under the hood . and had better make them stronger , from what i have seen of the power joke they are a dog the company that i work for now has 4 of them and even with the Bully Dog chips in them my 95 Dodge will eat them and i have not even changed the injector or turbo yet on mine and all 4 of them the turbos are leaking oil .

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