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Herniated disc., Chuck t . Question???

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Robert in Md

12-14-2005 18:34:41




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Chuck t , what do you mean McKenzie trained? Thanks for the info . Roberts wife.




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Robert in Md

12-15-2005 18:58:22




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 Re: Herniated disc., Chuck t . Question??? in reply to Robert in Md, 12-14-2005 18:34:41  
Thanks guys for all the info. We've been to the library this afternoon. Wife is now reading McKenzie's book and doing exercises on the floor. I'm reading books on knee pain. Its bad to get old but I don't like the alternatives. Thanks again



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chuck t

12-15-2005 09:56:06




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 Re: Herniated disc., Chuck t . Question??? in reply to Robert in Md, 12-14-2005 18:34:41  
The McKenzie method is an internationally taught system that teaches clinicians to teach their patients to self treat and manage their back pain with posture and exercise. Demands that patient is active participant long term; not a short term, dependent thing like a chiropractor or pain medicine. It is a series of courses; a lot have taken 1 or 2, but some have done all and you can find them at www.mckenziemdt.org. Does not work for all, but can help most. P.S. I am not a McKenzie certified therapist

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NEsota

12-15-2005 06:46:16




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 Re: Herniated disc., Chuck t . Question??? in reply to Robert in Md, 12-14-2005 18:34:41  
Good information in previous posts. One thing I did not see spelled out is that sometimes herniated discs can heal themselves without surgical intervention, chiropractors etc. They call this conservative treatment. I think that means always taking it easier than you were when the injury occurred and maybe doing some exercises. Changing life style and living with a new set of rules may be difficult but is far less painful than having a lot of symptoms from a damaged disc.

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VaTom

12-15-2005 09:36:13




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 Re: Herniated disc., Chuck t . Question??? in reply to NEsota, 12-15-2005 06:46:16  
Gotta disagree slightly. I don't take it any easier than before I developed back problems. Still operating my Cats, logging, and building post&beam. All solo.

What I did change was to stop doing the dumb things I used to do. Repetitive bent activity is now interrupted periodically to do some standing stretching, ala Mckenzie. I also don't carry the Cat counterweights by myself anymore. Duh!

One common major mistake, that I also did, was to take it extremely easy after injury. Repeating the injury obviously won't help, but neither does immmobility. Gotta keep moving for faster healing.

Clearly backs like jdemaris' got beyond simple stretching. I have yet to see a doc about mine. When they have a cure, I'll go. Until then, learning to live with what you have has worked very well for me. My McKenzie book goes out like a lending library's. Not that they're expensive, but most won't buy the book, or, for that matter, do the exercises.

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jdemaris

12-15-2005 18:51:03




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 Re: Herniated disc., Chuck t . Question??? in reply to VaTom, 12-15-2005 09:36:13  
I agree with your approach. If I were to take it easy, I'd be in much worse shape than I am. I was cutting firewood and building a barn while wearing a neckbrace after my last operation. But . . . as far as not doing dumb things . . . ?? You must be better at it then I am. When I've been doing my exercises on a regular basis, and get feeling pretty good -I start lifting heavy stuff again. Then I pay for it. If I lift something over a 100 lbs. I feel fine at first, i.e. no pain at all. Takes a day for the damage to kick in, to make me feel miserable. Then I curse myself for being such d*mn fool, I start doing the exercises like crazy, and wait to get better again. The funny thing with bad discs - at least mine - is you usually don't get immediate cause and effect. Sometimes I wish it did - then maybe I'd be more careful.

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jdemaris

12-15-2005 05:49:27




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 Try to use your own logic in reply to Robert in Md, 12-14-2005 18:34:41  
From what I've experienced, the McKenzie exercises only work in moderate cases. They usually work much better for maintenance than they do for fixing existing severe problems. I don't know anything about your wife's lifestyle or genetics - and they are imporpant when trying to predict what will work, and what will not. I've had back problems for years - and several operations. I've worked as a logger, a heavy-equipment mechanic, etc. I've paid attention to what other people have done with their own problems, and the results - including people who don't do heavy work. So, I take what I actually see along with advice that often differs from various neuro-surgeons, MDs, chiropractors, etc. When you get right down to it, no one will spend as much time figuring out your health, as you. Also keep in mind that some medical people are great, and some functional morons. So - try to evaluate back problems as a mechanical problem - because basically, that's what they usually are. A disc is a shock absorber between the vertebrae. It can only handle a certain amount of weight and shock. Some people naturally have stronger discs than other's - thus the genetics is a big factor. If your wife is NOT involved in heavy lifting and has a somewhat sedentary lifestyle - and has not been in any accidents that caused disc damage - and so it seems her discs got bad from normal everyday activity that is not going to change. Well - then it is logical to assume, that if she gets an operation that removes some of the disc - it will still be prone to cause future problems - i.e. it will not be any stronger when part is removed. It's possible though, that the correct exercises, done on a daily basis will help. If she gets a more intrusive operation - e.g. fusion - the specific area involved will actually be stronger than ever - but adds additional load to the other vertabrae and discs. So, it's kind of a crap-shoot. My reasoning, at one time, was - I'd die before letting anyone cut into me. But, I had some discs collapse so badly that nerve roots from my spinal cord were crushed and dying and I started to loose use of my left arm and leg. The pain was intense and full-time. So at that point, I didn't care if they shot me in the head - I couldn't live like that. When I first had problems, I went through months of McKenzie type exercises. I felt somewhat better. In fact, better enough to work harder and damage myself more. Then a neuro-surgeon suggested a lamenectomy - that is, removal of the ruptured parts of my discs. Being a mechanic, I asked the guy how that was going to work since my back would be no stronger when he got done? He said I'd be fine, I took his word for it. After the operation, I felt great and stronger than ever. So, a few months later - with the advice and approval of my doctor and surgeon, I went back to heavy work - and did myself in worse than ever. The discs that had been "trimmed" burst worse than ever. So, at this point I could hardly stand or walk - and they did a rush job on me involving fusion - cutting off little pieces of my hip bones and splicing them into my vertabrae. Every case is different, but as I said - you and wife are the one's who will spend the most time on figuring it out. If she is not involved in heavy work, and she had bad posture previously, and did not do the proper back exercises - then she might improve well enough with exercicse alone - or perhaps if the disc is already burst, then some surgical "trimming" with a regimen of exercise might work fine. One note about McKenzie type exercises. I do them every day - it keeps me going. A few years ago, I broke both my legs in a tractor accident. For months, I was at-first on a walker and then on crutches. Well, my back was better than ever - I felt like a teenager. Seems using crutches for months took the load off my back and stretched it out. It was a good reminder to me how much exercise and stretching can help. Once I was walking again, and often carrying heavy objects - my back is not so great. So, the exercises off-set some of it and I maintain a sort of a balance. If I could get away from cutting and carrying firewood, and working on tractors and such - I'd probably be a lot better off - but that would make a pretty boring life.

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steveormary

12-15-2005 09:19:38




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 Re: Try to use your own logic in reply to jdemaris, 12-15-2005 05:49:27  
It sure does.

steveormary



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old

12-14-2005 20:34:40




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 Re: Herniated disc., Chuck t . Question??? in reply to Robert in Md, 12-14-2005 18:34:41  
I agree with UNI as far as getting cut on. If you can live with out getting cut on your better off. I had on disc removed, it helped the pain I had but no where near all of it and I live in pain 24-7 and can no longer work an 8 hour job because of it.



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Unimog

12-14-2005 19:42:40




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 Re: Herniated disc., Chuck t . Question??? in reply to Robert in Md, 12-14-2005 18:34:41  
Google Dr. John Sarno and research his method of
back pain relief. Works for me after years of back
pain. Avoid cutting if possible as it many times
fails to solve the cause of pain. I had a minor
operation that failed to help.



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VaTom

12-14-2005 20:36:37




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 Re: Herniated disc., Chuck t . Question??? in reply to Unimog, 12-14-2005 19:42:40  
I don't Google for their archive policies, but I searched Sarno and read a little about Tension Myositis Syndrome. Interesting.

Can't speak for chuck t, but Robin McKenzie wrote a book, "Treat Your Own Back" that changed my life after losing months of productivity to lower back pain. A yoga teacher friend gave me a copy when he realized he would never get me to his classes. It explained how you hurt your back, how to prevent it, and what to do when you screw up. Nearly a decade later I'm still doing almost everything I once did. Just start my days a little differently and learned to listen to my back.

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