Trailer towing limits??

There are two types of trucks on the road and each have their own laws.
One is a commercial hauler.
Under this blanket their are Private carriers (haul only their own stuff)
and For Hire Carriers (haul for hire; other peoples stuff)
If this hauler weighs over 10,000 lbs or better yet is licensed to weigh over 10,000 lbs; OR hauls hazmat in quantities large enough to require placards; he falls under DOT rules. These rules state he MUST register with DOT; display name and DOT # on the door. If this hauler carries other peoples property (for hire carrier) he must also display a ICC #.
Their are other requirements of insurance amounts; IFTA (fuel tax) reporting; log books.
This is all spelled out in Part 390. (see link below)

Second is the one time hauler of personal property. 390.3 f3 (see link below) gives you the right to weigh over 10,000 lbs (if you do NOT haul hazmat) and not follow these rules. BUT you better not make any money and be ready to prove it. Hauling a tractor to your summer house to do yard work would fall under this rule. Hauling your tractor to your summer house to clear a spot to plant trees that later will be sold does NOT. You made money off the trees.

Different subject from above and should not be confused with any thing said above.
CDL
If you weigh over 26,000 lbs gross OR haul hazmat you need a CDL. If your trailer is licensed for more than 10,000 lbs you need a Class A CDL. YES if you are licensed for under 26,000 lbs you can pull a 10,000 lb trailer without a CDL but then we get into weight laws.
You are only allowed so much per axle depending on what size axle/tires it has.
Where it gets tricky is you need a truck capable of pulling and STOPPING a 10,000 trailer. To get this you (I think) need to get into larger trucks. One way I have seen them get around it is by getting a truck rated over 26,000 lbs but putting a 25,000 lb license on it. To avoid daily hassle they mark on the door..... .
GV weight 25,000 lbs

Scale the load
A truck comes with 2 weight ratings...
GVWR gross vehicle weight rating
GCWR gross combined weight rating
You can license a Toyota pickup for 80,000 lbs but that does not mean you can weigh that much. You must never exceed your GVWR or GCWR. For small trucks they will check it. Rip the tag off the door; does not matter they have a book listing ratings.
Even when all this is correct you still need to place the load on the trailer properly so you are not over axle weights.

Now I will say it again.
Glad you found someone to haul your load BUT..... ..... ..
How can you pull a 14,000 lb load and be under 26,000 lbs.
Your 1 ton (I think) is to small to do the job.
So we need a larger truck. Say a 2 ton.
Your 4000 lb trailer will have all it can handle with 14,000 lbs. If we can get the load placed just right we may be able to scale the load.
If so we may squeeze in under 26,000 but it is going to be close.

I agree with most of what you wrote but the big point for these guys to remember is ARE YOU A COMMERCIAL VEHICLE? Uncle Petes RV may have a GVWR of 40,000 lbs but until he starts hauling fruit back from Florida he isn't a CMV and thats all their is to it.

Now Farmer Joe, (like me), he has a 1/2 pick up with a GVWR of say, 6600 lbs, and a dual axle trailer with a GVWR of 5,000 lbs. The Combined GVWR is in excess of 10,000 lbs and he makes $$ off the farm (not much, yeah I know the story). He IS commercial.

Joe the landscaper has a 3/4 ton truck and a flatbed, GVWR of 8800 and 11,000. He's commercial, he needs a regular license.

Jim the landscaper has a truck with a GVWR of 12,000 and a 20,000 lbs trailer. He needs a class A because the CGVWR exceeds 26,000 lbs and the trailer exceeds 10,000 lbs. He can have them registered for 5 and 8,000 lbs respectivly but it's the CGVWR we go by.

I'll throw a wrench in the gears to illustrate where some guys get in trouble- Fred the foundation guy has a 3/4 ton truck, GVWR 8800 lbs. He's not a CMV. Lets say the truck weighs in at 5,000 lbs bare. Fred's got one of theose neat little dump boxes on the truck. He goes to the pit and gets a nice big load of stone. Ooops, here's Tpr Martin driving down the road fat, dumb and happy. I pull Fred over and notice the weigh slip from the quarry says he grossed at 11,980 lbs. I scale him and he weighs 11,950 on my scales. He is now a CMV becasue his actual weight is over 10,000 lbs. He's also going to be over registered weight, probably over his tire weight rating, maybe breaking some springs, duals touching at the innner sidewall, no fire extinguisher, triangles or flares, etc, etc, etc. Am I out to ruin Freds day? Nope. Do you want Fred following your teenage daughter down the road in her Neon and coming to a stop sign? I doubt it. Should Ol'Fred have put just a little more thougth into this? You tell me. Is Fred gonna swear up and down I had it in for him? You betcha! Welcome to my world.

Let’s concentrate on, let’s say a landscape contractor. He is certainly doing it for profit. They often tow trailers over 10000 lbs. and of the dozen or so I talked to in the last couple days none have anything but a regular license. All but one had no idea what the GCWR of their truck was. If I understand what you’re saying now these guys are all “commercial” hailers and are technically illegal?!?

Apparently no one cares since only one had been pulled over for being over weight when he had a huge load on his trailer. The officer only asked for his driver’s license and registrations of both truck & trailer. Trailer was “registered” heavy enough and nothing was even mentioned about the truck and he let him go. Again no mention of truck GCWR!

What really baffles me is the GCWR of the pickup trucks. How would an officer or the DOT or anyone else ever know what your truck is “rated” at? Its not listed on the plate on the truck, just the GVWR is as far as I can see. Apparently your saying the registered weight is meaningless even though it appears that this is commonly what is used as a determining factor. My observation is the GCWR of the truck varies greatly depending on engine, transmission, wheels, tires and who knows what else. How on earth is this determined on the side of the road???? Is there someplace this is written that I’m not seeing?

It all boils down to the same conclusion. You might just as well do whatever you want since no one really knows (or cares) anyway. I’m sure if you ran into the right guy he could fine you for something no matter what the situation so just do whatever you feel is best in your own mind.

As for "knowing what your truck is rated at", that IS the GVWR. It's that simple. For instance- my Toyota says GVWR 5500 lbs. Thats it. Period. Now, does every cop you run into know that? No, like I said in an earlier post, it's a specialized field just like terroism, forgery, evidence collection. I was a road Trooper for 16 years before I moved over into the CVEU and had to basically start over in my way of thinking. Nothing like a new position to make you realize how smart you aren't.

As for the do what you want idea- your call.Trust me, we do "care" about it. You can scoff at the idea of safety, which is what this is about or not. I'd rather educate a guy than hand him a fist full of tickets.

Theres a lot to this to do it right and state to state laws add to the muddle. The Federal Law doesn't help much if the State law is more restrictive. From the cops/DOT Inspectors point of view I wish it was simpiler just like all you guys do. At least most of you don't have tha added hassle of trying to deal with Canadian rules too!

As I said below, I hired the hob done so this is now all just for “clarity” of the law.

I went out and looked at the doors on the truck, through the owner’s manuals, and again at the registrations. Here’s what confuses me.

The door on my truck does indeed say GVWR 8800 lbs. What exactly does this mean? Can I not legally have a truck /trailer combo over 8800lbs no mater what its registered for. The police I talked to said they would just look at the registration and if that was enough. “You’re good as gold”

In the owners manual I finally found a small paragraph that listed my ¾ ton truck as equipped at GCWR 18000 lbs. So does this mean I can have a truck/trailer combo up to 18000lbs even though the door sticker says GVWR 8800lbs. Again then what is the registered weight for????? Why is there no GCWR even shown on the door?? Wouldn’t this be the more critical figure??

I also found an old registration from the previous owner of the 1-ton truck. The registered weight was indeed 26000lbs. I couldn’t find any GCVR in any of the manuals with that truck. I also found an old trailer registration in it for a trailer registered for 23000lbs. I have no idea what kind of license that owner had but thought it was interesting.

Thanks for all the info.

Just to be clear- registered weight means nothing in the eyes of the FMCSA, licensing or anything else. The ladies at NYS DMV will let you register a VW Beetle for 26,000 lbs if you want or a KW for 5,000 lb even though the bare wt is way more than that.

Your best bet is to call your local NY State Police Barracks and ask to talk to one of the members of the Commercial Vehicle Unit. Explain what you want to do, why you are doing it and all the particulars. Then the Trooper can fill you in on what you'll need to have and do. We do this all the time and really would rather have someone ask us ahead of time and get it right than find you on the road and have another nightmare situation for both of us.

For the guys who tell you to wing it- They'll meet me sooner or later and it's not me paying the fines.

Who cares what NYS says. You are crossing state lines so that is federal.

383.91 Any trailer over 10,000lbs needs a class A CDL. So now you need a physical.
If you meet one of the exemptions you can get around this. (farmer; RV)

390.5 Any vehicle over 10,000 GVWR is considered a Commercial motor vehicle.

If you can meet one of the NEW exemptions; most times 390.3 f3 you can get around this. But you better be able to prove no compensation was made.

If you are considered commercial that opens a whole new can of worms.

Neither of the trucks you mention can pull the load. The biggest is licensed for 18,000 lbs and just the trailer is going to weigh that much.
Your truck license/GCWR have to cover the entire weight; truck; trailer; and load.

But I still have the question of..... ..
Is your truck rated at say 25,000 lbs.

I think to get a truck rated to pull a trailer that weighs 18,000 lbs you would need one rated at over 26,000 lbs.

Glad you found someone to do it.