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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

Winter calving? Why?

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IaGary

02-15-2006 13:52:33




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I've often heard of snow storms in the Dakotas and Montana and how the ranchers are losing calves during these storms.
Why do you guys up there try to calve so early.
Most guys here in Iowa,including me,wait till the weather warms a little like mid to late March.Some go till April before starting. Our weather is usually warmer to start with.
A reply down below got me to thinking of this question again.

Just wondering.

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R. John Johnson

02-16-2006 06:58:59




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 Re: Winter calving? Why? in reply to IaGary, 02-15-2006 13:52:33  
Here in Manitoba you either calve in the winter or in the fall. Purebred breeders tend to calve in January up here. With the ground frozen there is a lot less problem with scours. If the cow is a good mother she will lick the calf clean and stimulate him to get up and suck. It means more facilities and work, but it is worth it here. Any calf born after mid May is too small when the peak growth of forage occurs. If the calf misses that peak growth you will have to background them all winter before they are big enough to sell.

John

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kyhayman

02-15-2006 17:59:13




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 Re: Winter calving? Why? in reply to IaGary, 02-15-2006 13:52:33  
Our weather is far from as brutal as it is in the Dakota's but I am a firm believer in winter calving. The worst possible conditions for a new born is 33 degrees and raining, unless its 30 degrees and freezing rain. Typically, we get very little of this from Christmas to mid/late Feb. Before that (from Thanksgiving) is freezing rain season, after mid Feb its rain and mud.

I had 9 calve this past weekend, in the 20's and snowing. All 9 hit the ground 'running'. Only thing better would have been if it had been a little colder earlier to kill the mud under the snow. I calve outside without shelter. Yes, I lose calves. Last winter was warm and wet, my death loss was up in the 8% range b/c of the mud. Normally, gaining 2# per day on the cow that extra 2 months of age at selling equals 60# additional calf to sell on each one. 10 of these equals one 600# calf lost.

For me, forget hot weather calving. Flies, cows get too hot, calves get stress, ugh. Its got to get to the low single digets for it to be really dangerous on the calves (hypothermia before nursing). We rarely get that for any lenght of time. All my calving is outdoors, on pasture, limited shelter (land is rolling so there are some natural windbreaks).

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Buckeye

02-15-2006 18:15:26




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 Re: Winter calving? Why? in reply to kyhayman, 02-15-2006 17:59:13  
I've found a great way to reduce calf loss by mud. Eliminate the round bale feeders and unroll the round bales every evening. Since I started doing this about 10 years ago I have probably saved 10 calves a year(100 calves in 10 years!). A plus to unrolling the hay in the evenings is 70-75% of the calves are born in the daytime. A good rule of thumb is to feed one bale(6X6) to 30 cows every day(150 cows=5 bales). I always thought it would take more hay, but it doesn't.

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JD 5020 guy

02-15-2006 21:57:33




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 Re: Winter calving? Why? in reply to Buckeye, 02-15-2006 18:15:26  
We use a haybuster for feeding. We give them 2 800 lb straw bales every other day and the calves love to lay in it.



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4010guy

02-15-2006 18:25:32




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 Re: Winter calving? Why? in reply to Buckeye, 02-15-2006 18:15:26  
hay thear buckeye,you rais an interresting point thear about un rolling hay,I have heard the ol timers always say that the hay that a cow lays on is as importent as the hay she eats---it seems if a cow is comfey and stress free she eats less and i have seen wear a stress free cow mothers up better



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kyhayman

02-15-2006 18:24:27




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 Re: Winter calving? Why? in reply to Buckeye, 02-15-2006 18:15:26  
Thats a great plan, and one I have thought about to shift calving to day time. I just cant feed every day (or should I say, I am unwilling to feed every day) with my work schedule. I try to feed weekly, this time of year maybe twice a week. I'd like to go to a TMR and daily feeding (maybe in 7-8 years when I can get early retirement).

You are right about mud and hay rings. I went to a geotextile pad 5 years ago. Every year, even moving the rings every feeding I was getting someone trampled. With the pad, havent lost a one to trampling. I usually unroll one when I feed, to get the cows to leave me alone and gives them some bedding on the pasture. Worked great up to this year. At $50 for a 4x4 inside stored roll, I stopped feeding hay and went to feeding only round baled silage. Cows would still go for that roll until I started feeding pearl millet and seedling alfalfa silage, OMG!!!! Cows stood right at the gate waitng for me to feed, turned up there nose at anything else.

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Buckeye

02-15-2006 18:44:18




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 Re: Winter calving? Why? in reply to kyhayman, 02-15-2006 18:24:27  
Seems like a cow just loves to lay down were a round bale was and push the calf right out in the mud. I remember saving a calf from a cow that did that one cold March night. When I found the calf it was mired in the mud half-way. It was below freezing and the mud was so cold it was almost froze in place. I took it to the barn(w/cow) and got some colosturum down it and it was fine. I remember it was a White(charolais) calf and it carried that dark color on one side for almost a month were it had been buried in the mud! I raise cattle and farm full-time, so I spend a lot of time with the old gals in Feb-April. I have 28 bred heifers due yesterday and had the first one deliver today. Getting ready to go and check them now before bedtime. Raising cattle is a lot of work, but a lot of satisfaction goes along with it too.

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Jeff Jackson

02-15-2006 17:18:47




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 Re: Winter calving? Why? in reply to IaGary, 02-15-2006 13:52:33  
My grandfather always planned his calves for late April/early May. He always told me he could control the flies and insects better than he could control the weather! He farmed for over 60 years and always had the best looking Angus I'd ever seen so I follow his philosophy.



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Nebraska Cowman

02-15-2006 16:57:41




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 Re: Winter calving? Why? in reply to IaGary, 02-15-2006 13:52:33  
I don't start until the 10th of March. Most are done by May 1st and if there are stragglers they get turned out to pasture. I ain't got time to "mess with cattle" What some guys forget is on those early calvers it takes a LOT of feed to keep the cow milking til green grass. You skimp the cow early and she won't milk good all summer. I wean just as big a calf as the guys who calve a month earlier.

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Sloroll

02-15-2006 18:21:46




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 Re: Winter calving? Why? in reply to Nebraska Cowman, 02-15-2006 16:57:41  
I knew a Veterinarian and son that thought and did the same Howard. Worked really good for them too.



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Steven@AZ

02-15-2006 16:25:36




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 Re: Winter calving? Why? in reply to IaGary, 02-15-2006 13:52:33  
My dad's farm is in ND, I grew up calving in January, February, and March. Feb and Mar work pretty good. Haven't lost any calves in the snow storms because we know how to take care of cattle. You need to have a big enough building or wind break and calf shelters to protect the calves. And you need to check them often...

Early calving = heavier sale weight. Always wanted to sell in October so we didn't have to feed them, usually ends up being early January lately because of mild winters.

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Allan in NE

02-15-2006 15:54:55




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 Re: Winter calving? Why? in reply to IaGary, 02-15-2006 13:52:33  
Aw heck,

Go into the dairy business and you can calve every day of the year. :>)

Allan



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JD 5020 guy

02-15-2006 14:27:42




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 Re: Winter calving? Why? in reply to IaGary, 02-15-2006 13:52:33  
Because we start farming in April. Because the calves won't reach 550-650 lbs unless we start early. We used to calve in March and April but after switching over to Jan and Feb, we have had less death loss. The wet winter storms that would blow through in March and April seemed to bring on more diseases.



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4010guy

02-15-2006 15:50:53




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 Re: Winter calving? Why? in reply to JD 5020 guy, 02-15-2006 14:27:42  
hi well you should get a ton of differnt replys on this one,like 5020 says to get calving out of the way before spring farming is a big plus and let me tell you when you calf early you earn every calf.I used to calv in feb.and as time has gone on im out in april because that warm sunshine shure make life a lot more pleasent but you still need a lot of shelter as we have had as mutch as 18 inches of snow in may(not good ha!)have seen wear the april calves catch up very well with the early ones but when they get out into may and june the heat gets a little hard on them.and now some guys have gone ta fall like sept.calving and i understand they are having some good results with them but i just dont know about a calf sucking on a cow at 30 below

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JD 5020 guy

02-15-2006 22:18:40




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 Re: Winter calving? Why? in reply to 4010guy, 02-15-2006 15:50:53  
Same here. We have had over a foot of wet snow at the end of May several times. Seems like we get a spring snow storm in April almost every year. During 2002, we had snow hit the ground every month of the year except July. No BS. I've had neighbors cuss and moan to me about the wet snow miserable weather we sometimes get in May when they are trying to calve. I don't say much because we are about 2 months done by then.

Our calves hold up better when its frozen and dry and not when its muddy with wet snow. After a cow calves we throw the pair in the barn for a couple of days just to make sure everything is going right. If it gets real cold like 40 below, we try to get as many in the barn as we can and go out every hr. Its also kinda hard to get any field work done when checking the cows every 3 hrs.

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IaGary

02-15-2006 19:13:43




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 Re: Winter calving? Why? in reply to 4010guy, 02-15-2006 15:50:53  
"Getting done before planting" They just calve in the dry warm pasture then no problems no work for me.

" bigger calf by selling time" sell two months later no problem there.

Calving shed? Whats that for when you calve when its warmer.

I hope I don't make anyone mad but I think its all braggin rights for the early calvers.
Biggest calve in the fall, first done calving.



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JD 5020 guy

02-15-2006 21:50:30




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 Re: Winter calving? Why? in reply to IaGary, 02-15-2006 19:13:43  
I wouldn't go bashing the way other people farm/ranch. Obvoiusly you don't have any idea what its like to farm or ranch in northern MT.



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IaGary

02-16-2006 03:44:34




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 Re: Winter calving? Why? in reply to JD 5020 guy, 02-15-2006 21:50:30  
Your right. I guess if it didn't work they wouldn't do it. I better shut my mouth.



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hayray

02-15-2006 15:48:35




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 Re: Winter calving? Why? in reply to JD 5020 guy, 02-15-2006 14:27:42  
What kind of weather is considered too nasty. I have one that I bought at auction that looks like she is gonna calf anytime? We are going to get rain tonigh, followed by freezing rain, followed by snow, and highs in the teens with 40 mph winds by this weekend.e



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4010guy

02-15-2006 15:57:21




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 Re: Winter calving? Why? in reply to hayray, 02-15-2006 15:48:35  
hope ya got a barn or you catch it in time and bring the littel guy in the house with ya---and know how to milk a cow who might not like being milked HA!LOL wish ya good luck---wether just on hear--talking 20 to 25 below brrrrr rr



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