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OT: 3/4 Ton Trucks

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Specter

04-11-2006 07:45:38

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I'm still a couple years from being ready to buy one, but want to think ahead a little bit. I want to buy a late 1990's or early 2000's 3/4 truck in a couple years, for use as a daily driver and occaisonal trailering, maybe a couple of times each month, probably a triple axle or tandem dually gooseneck. I don't think I'd be trailering much further than 300 miles, tops. What do you guys think would be the best way to go, gas or diesel? If gas, I think I'm pretty much set on an early 2000's GMC with 6.0L V8. But I don't know much about diesels. What are the pros and cons of various manufacturer's diesels (i.e. Chev's Duramax, Dodge's Cummins, and Ford's Powerstroke)?

Specter
Alberta, Canada

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IBorange in TX

04-11-2006 19:39:48

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Re: OT: 3/4 Ton Trucks in reply to Specter, 04-11-2006 07:45:38

I agree w/some of these guys. I have a '93Ford 1 ton duely diesel w/o turbo, just plain. I ave 15.5 driving to the pastures and then to town. The thot that everyone has left out, is the speed that you drive. The slower the speed the better the fuel milage. I have hauled 15k-20k from IA to TX and running at 55mph, the old Ford 7.3 would run 10mpg. That is pulling a single tire tandum axle 26ft trailer. If you can't haul the load on a single tire tandum trailer behind a 3/4,then it must be a 1 ton. The old Ford 7.3 has 167k miles on it and has very little done to it. The injector pump had to be rebuilt, but other than that it has been a good truck. Remember: for every gallon of diesel the the oil companys make,there is also a gallon of gasoline made. I also have a '96 1ton Ford 460, fine pulling truck, but it will get 8-9mpg pulling loaded or empty. I would suggest two things: 1)don't buy automatic trans and 2.)buy what every brand of truck you want. With today's fuel prices, something has to break, the etholgas has to become greater and the biodiesel has to become greater. It just makes good sence to use a crop based fuel. Hope I have not bent you ear to much. Have a good one.

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ncdiesel560

04-11-2006 15:00:48

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Re: OT: 3/4 Ton Trucks in reply to Specter, 04-11-2006 07:45:38

I have to admit I am bias towards the cummins NOT CUMMINGS! Here are some of my experiences. the 7.3 powerstroke is a good engine. I have seen many last 200,000 but when they do break look out. The injectors themselves are a 280 a piece. I have seen many that the manifolds warp and that also is expensive. The cummins stay away from the trucks that have the 53 block they are notorious for cracking, they were in the 98 1/2 to 2000's I believe. You can look up on the front of the block drivers side and tell which you have. The lift pumps for the vp44 are notorious for going bad but cheap to fix if the vp44 goes bad look at about 1200. The early durmaxes are junk I have seen numerous ones with busted cranks, dropped valves etc. Around 02 is when they got ok. The 6.0 powerstroke is junk stay away completely. Stay away from the dodge autos. I have two cummins both with well over 300,000 miles. One a 99 and the other is an 01. Just my 0.02

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Ohio Mike

04-11-2006 12:38:07

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Re: OT: 3/4 Ton Trucks in reply to Specter, 04-11-2006 07:45:38

Specter, I tied just what you are thinking about. I had a 3\4 ton I used as a daily driver and towed my trailer and tractors. I was spending a bunch in gas just going to and from work not counting the few times a month I used it to tow. So I bought a good condition older one ton to do my towing and a short bed 4 cylinder ranger as my daily driver. I have about 11,500 in both trucks togeather and thats a lot less then I had in the 3/4 ton. I now have a larger truck with more HP to tow with and a daily driver that cost less in upkeep, tires, parts, ect. for daily driving and is easier on parts, tires, ect. Insurance is just about same for 6 months but in gas alone I will save almost 2,000 just going to and from work. In just a little over 5 years I will have saved enough money just in gas going to and from work to have paid for both trucks. My 3/4 ton was 2001 Dodge, my ranger is 2003 and 1 ton dually is 85 f-350 with 460. Also if I still had the 3/4 ton I would be looking at replacing it in 2-3 years and now I will not replace for 5-6 years. I beleave for me it was a good idea and will save me a lot of money in long run. Good luck.

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Keith T

04-11-2006 11:49:38

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Re: OT: 3/4 Ton Trucks in reply to Specter, 04-11-2006 07:45:38

No matter what these Cummins guys say they still have to buy a"Dodge " to get one .Swore off Chrysler Corp several yr. ago when recall notices were mailed to me by the bundle. I have noticed that a lot of guys around here who jumped on the Dodge band wagon when they first came out are back driving GM's and Fords.

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Bill46

04-11-2006 10:27:58

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Re: OT: 3/4 Ton Trucks in reply to Specter, 04-11-2006 07:45:38

Well Spector, I am no expert...I only know what works for me.
I had nothing but Fords for years...dad kept after me to buy a Dodge with the Cummins.
I finally got off the extra money in 96 and haven't looked back.
I may have made one mistake in getting the automatic...but an ATS torque convertor sure fixed that.
Never paid a lot of attention to fuel mileage until I started hauling dad's old tractors from Indiana to Texas.
Had a friend ride along on one trip. He had the older 3/4 ton Powerstroke, I had the 3/4 ton Cummins. He had a 20' gooseneck with a single WD9 on it, I had a JD 820 and a Farmall Super M on a 30Ft gooseneck.
He could leave me at a startup easily, but on the road...I could walk him on the hills thru Kentucky and Tennessee.
He kept count of the fuel for the fun of it. I gave it little thought as I had other things on my mind at the time.
Empty going to Indiana he got around 15, I averaged 22. His score...not mine.
Coming back loaded...and we were loaded, he averaged 9 and I averaged 14.
Again, the Dodge has the older mechanical injector pump...not the newer electronic system. I have been told they do not do as well. I now have 250K miles on it, and I feel like the engine will go forever...but the body may not. The engine has cost me very little.
I like the engine so well, when the body is gone, I plan to stick it in an old 3/4 ton IH...just for kicks and grins.
You drive them all...buy the one you like the best. Now...having said that...if they would stick that Cummins in a Ford...but that is a dream I know. Make a heck of a truck though.....
My 2 cents.

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Nebraska Cowman

04-11-2006 10:27:20

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Re: OT: 3/4 Ton Trucks in reply to Specter, 04-11-2006 07:45:38

I've always bought a small gasser with low gears. Have the 5.4 in a 99 Ford with 110,000 miles and never had the hood up except to change oil. Had a diesel once and was always needing tinkered with. Never again.

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Tim in New York

04-11-2006 10:05:41

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Re: OT: 3/4 Ton Trucks in reply to Specter, 04-11-2006 07:45:38

You didn"t say how much weight you planned to tow. But I think I agree with the last comment - if you"re towing heavy you should look at the 8 liter engine. I bought a 01 used 2500HD with the 6.0 last year. I love it, but I only tow around 4,000 lbs - 19" boat and trailer. Hardly even know the boat is there most of the time. But I"m not so sure it would handle 8-10,000 lbs very well. And I doubt the mileage would be much worse with the bigger engine - I think I only get around 12 or 13 empty. Only drive the truck weekends, so I don"t keep track of it that carefully.

I"d think very hard about the decision to drive it as an everyday vehicle, with gas approaching $3 a gallon.

Tim

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Specter

04-11-2006 10:25:41

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Re: OT: 3/4 Ton Trucks in reply to Tim in New York, 04-11-2006 10:05:41

I'd probably tow between 5,000 and 12,000 pounds, but not very often. Dad can tow a pretty heavy load, up to around 8,000 I think, with his '94 GMC 3500 with a 350 gas in it. I think it has 4:10 gears in it, but not positive. We haven't tried higher, but with a good trailer, would probably do 10,000 lbs. We don't do it often, but with over 200,000 km, and very little in the way of repairs, I think a 6.0L ought to be able to do the same thing, from what I've heard about them.

Yeah, gas prices bother me too, but insurance is also a killer up here. I'd rather try to run only 1 vehicle if I can.

Specter

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Mike M

04-11-2006 09:55:51

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Re: OT: 3/4 Ton Trucks in reply to Specter, 04-11-2006 07:45:38

May as well put my opinion in the pot.

I have a 1996 Dodge Ram 2500 4x4 ext. cab long bed 360 gas automatic and 3.55 gears. this is the best set up for an all around vehicle if you want to tow occasionaly.I get 13-14 MPG going to work and driving around town in the mix. Never been on the open road without a load.Worst was maybe 7-8 ? loaded which is where a 460 always is. For full time towing I'd go with the diesel. I have pulled a tandem dual 25 ft gooseneck with a 8000 lb.tractor on it and got along ok even being WAY over GVWR. The tandem dual trailer is more than you need for a 3/4 ton truck. Just buy a good tandem single wheel so your tires and rims will interchange and stay away from tri axles all together. Too hard to turn sharp. We bought the dual wheel trailer for use with the 1 ton dually it works better and the wheels will interchange.

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Vernon

04-11-2006 09:32:53

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Re: OT: 3/4 Ton Trucks in reply to Specter, 04-11-2006 07:45:38

I have a 92 Ford F-250 7.3litre N/A diesel with 5 speed manual and 4.10 gear. 389,000 miles and still going strong. Daily driver, 19.5 mpg no trailer every tank. Pull 12-15,000 regularly(4-5 times a month in Kansas) get 13-15 mpg. Don't listen to the crap about only one true diesel being a cummins. They are a very good engine but not the only team on the field. I don't know enough about the new chevy and ford diesels to give my opinion. I do know I do not want an automatic trans to tow with. I do know enough that I don't want a dodge with an auto. Duals on a pickup that doesn't tow much or far is a waste of money. Been there and done that. Tandem duals on a trailer is a gas sucking piece of equipment. Triple axle singles will carry all you are equiped for in a 3/4 ton. These are my opinions from experience, others will disagree or argue about brandname. I wont get into color wars on vehicles. I know what works best for my aplication and go with that.

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Specter

04-11-2006 10:31:06

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Re: OT: 3/4 Ton Trucks in reply to Vernon, 04-11-2006 09:32:53

Did you have to much into it in the way of repairs? If I can, I'd like to buy a truck that will stick with me for the rest of my life, or at least half of it, but I don't want to be putting thousands and thousands into it every 100,000 km. I would also like to know if the powerstrokes are a finicky engine, or if they're tuned right do they work well for quite some time?

Specter

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Cliff Neubauer

04-11-2006 09:31:52

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Re: OT: 3/4 Ton Trucks in reply to Specter, 04-11-2006 07:45:38

I've driven a neighbor's Chevy with the 6.0 and in my opinion it is not a good engine for a work truck, all that engines hp and torque is at around 4,000 rpm so to me it didn't seem like a practical engine for towing. Last year when I bought a truck I went with a '99 Dodge 2500 diesel and other than being a little dissapointed in the fuel mileage (I've been averaging 12-13 with general farm driving) I really like the truck. At times a diesel is a little bit of a hassle, in the winter it needs to be plugged in and fuel can be harder to find but I don't think I will ever go back to a gas truck. I went with the Dodge for the Cummins engine, if I was buying a gas truck I probably would not have considered a Dodge but after having one I wouldn't rule out one with the V-10 if it was priced right. In my opinion the newer GM trucks are not designed to be heavy duty work trucks, they're more like SUVs with beds. For me it came down to I could either buy a truck that rides like a car or a truck with a tractor engine and when I answered that question Dodge was my only choice.

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tg in VA

04-11-2006 09:22:47

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Re: OT: 3/4 Ton Trucks in reply to Specter, 04-11-2006 07:45:38

I"ve got a 1997 Dodge dually (3500) with a Cummings, automatic and a 3.50 rear. Empty, I"ve gotten as much as 23 mpg. I pull both a 2 and 4 horse gooseneck with no problems. On hills a numerically higher rear would probably be better but overall I"ll give up a little performance for fuel economy. I do understand the 24 valve Cummings is not a miserly with the fuel.

I"ve had a 454, a 350 and a 351 gas. There is no comparison between the gas and diesel. No more gasoline trucks for me.

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JDknut

04-11-2006 09:15:47

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Re: OT: 3/4 Ton Trucks in reply to Specter, 04-11-2006 07:45:38

Tractor vet is right on, and thast goes double for what he says about V-8 Diesels and that the Cummins is the only real Diesel available in a pickup, the others are revved-up car engines that happen to burn Diesel fuel.

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dhermesc

04-11-2006 09:44:22

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Re: OT: 3/4 Ton Trucks in reply to JDknut, 04-11-2006 09:15:47

"the others are revved-up car engines that happen to burn Diesel fuel."

I'd love to see the car that uses the 6.0 (or 7.3) "gas" version of the Navister engine.

There was never a "gas" version of the 6.2 and 6.5 diesel that Chevy used in the 2000 and older pickups. It was designed from the ground up as a diesel engine by the Detroit Diesel Division of General Motors. That being said, it was never considered all that successful compared to the Cummins and the Navistar engines. The new GM Duramax 6600 light-truck diesel engine, is a result of a joint venture between Isuzu and the General Motors Corporation.

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JDknut

04-11-2006 11:32:52

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Re: OT: 3/4 Ton Trucks in reply to dhermesc, 04-11-2006 09:44:22

I meant that "car engine" thing kind of tongue-in-cheek, not literally. What I mean't was that the V-8's used in Ford and Chevy pickups, high HP tho they may be, are light duty high-RPM engines designed primarily for people used to driving high revving gas engines in cars and pickups (consumer goods) versus the Cummins B which was designed in the late 70's-early 80's for a primary market in tractors/construction equipment/OEM (capital goods). When it was designed the Cummins B was not anticipated to be used in any truck lighter than 20,000 lbs GVW, but then later Dodge saw the serendipity in this engine when they were casting about for a pickup Diesel. Whereas Ford and GM had their Diesel engines designed primarily for the pickup market.

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Specter

04-11-2006 08:30:29

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Re: OT: 3/4 Ton Trucks in reply to Specter, 04-11-2006 07:45:38

Well, what I really want is a truck that is reasonably economical to serve both purposes, daily driver and trailer puller. In a few years I'll be well into my apprenticeship (Ag mech), and may be able to afford to buy a truck to pull my tractors around with. But I only want to own one vehicle, so I thought a 3/4 would be the best of both worlds. My family has had very good luck with GMC's, especially with the 350 engines, but I'll need something a little heavier and probably a little newer. I want to explore all my options and check out all the manufacturers. I did a little checking around this morning already, and am a little curious about the Ford 5.4L gas and their V10 engine. Any good?

Thanks for the info.

Specter

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the tractor vet

04-11-2006 08:46:38

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Re: OT: 3/4 Ton Trucks in reply to Specter, 04-11-2006 08:30:29

The New ford line up of there gas engines is what turned me off of fords Start looken at the spec.'s on them and just where they make there torque the V10 is way up there in the 4000 RPM range and they have already been makeing changes to it , IMPO when they did away with the long proven 460's that would do a vary fine job and live a long time and why would you want to have ten cyliners to maintain and the 4.5 is to small . And as for the power strok well around here the guy that have had them all had problems with the fly wheels while pullen trailers in the humps and bumps over here . And over the years i have also learned that tryen to have just one dual use truck did not work well for me as when i first went to a one truck for all i was always fixen it as pullen the trailer for what i was tryen to do was just tomuch for a pickup -flat bed what i should have done was have a pickup to beat around in a big truck for the trailer towen but i was tryen to stay away from all the big truck rules and reg. but now they have brought them down to the one ton a and the tandem dual trailers So now if i ever go back to the tractor buying and selling then i will go with a much larger truck and trailer and have to play the game . So if ya don't have that big of tractors to move around then a 3/4 ton and a tandem signal wheel trailer is one way of stayen away from them for now. till they figure out that they can make money off the littel guy.

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mtrim

04-11-2006 10:39:41

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Re: OT: 3/4 Ton Trucks in reply to the tractor vet, 04-11-2006 08:46:38

Maybe you better take another look at those specs. The Triton V-10 makes nearly 90% of its torque at 1500 rpms. That is nearly 400 ft lbs at just above idle. If you can find any gas engine that comes anywhere close to those numbers, please let us know. The V-10 outclasses the 460 in every conceivable categor, and gets much better gas mileage.

Might take a look at Ford-trucks.com for further proof.

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dhermesc

04-11-2006 09:31:22

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Re: OT: 3/4 Ton Trucks in reply to the tractor vet, 04-11-2006 08:46:38

The 5.4 could hardly pull the weight of a Superduty until it went to the three valve heads last year. A 2000 F250 with a 5.4 is like driving a 4 cylinder Ranger, without the reliability or the fuel mileage (blown head gaskets every 30K or less). The V10 gives a F250 plenty of power with decent (14-17 MPG empty 10 mpg loaded) mileage.

I hear all the stories abut guys getting 19 - 22 MPG from desiels but never witnessed one. We have a couple 2001 F350s with the 7.3 & auto transmission - and average about 16 mpg all the time. We also have 2 2001 Chevies with the 6 speed and the Duramax - they average around 15 all the time. The biggest problem with the manual is the fly wheel. One C3500 that sees hard duty has the fly wheel replaced every 40K, the one that sees light duty has had the fly wheel replaced at 98K.

The repair bills on desiels is enormous. Our Fords were somewhat better then the Chevies but one F350 had over $5000 in repairs in the past 4 months with minimal miles (almost "O" in repairs in the 4 years before that). In the last 6 months we replaced the glow plugs, intake manifold gasket and the injectors on one bank of cylinders (three differant trips to the shop). The Chevies are even worse, the one seeing hard duty (155K miles) has had over $19,000 in repairs since purchased (not counting regular maintenance), the one seeing light duty has had over $9000 in repairs (110K) most in the last 9 months.

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the tractor vet

04-11-2006 08:03:54

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Re: OT: 3/4 Ton Trucks in reply to Specter, 04-11-2006 07:45:38

As for a daylie driver with todays fuel prices hope ya got a big check book and if you are thinking about a tandem duel trailer then a dual rear wheel one ton is the best there , heavier rear axel more tires on the ground more stability in handeling . As far as diesel goes the realy only true diesel is the cummins and it is like this why have 8 cylinders tryen to make torque when and inline has and alway will be better for this . All diesel mfg. have been the route with the V8's Mack Cummins Cat and I H Detroit and they have all but I H navistar gone back to the inline and oh yea Chevey and they don't even make it . Now i hear of guys talken about there 20+ mpg with there diesels but of all my friends that have diesels most are getting around 15-18 mine is at around the 15 mark but IMPO it is geared wrong as it has the 4.10 gear and would be much better with the 3.55 .

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RustyFarmall

04-11-2006 08:01:20

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Re: OT: 3/4 Ton Trucks in reply to Specter, 04-11-2006 07:45:38

Can't comment on the diesels because I have had no experience with them. I will comment on the 6.0. If you are serious about trailering, you will want the 8.1. The 6.0 is pretty underpowered, and will not get any better fuel mileage than the 8.1.

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Gorilla

04-11-2006 11:28:32

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Re: OT: 3/4 Ton Trucks in reply to RustyFarmall, 04-11-2006 08:01:20

Buy a diesel. No matter what kind. I have a duramax with over 100,000 miles & no problem. The allison transmission is stronger/less trouble than the 5 speed though. My dad has a chevy with the 6.0. It has plenty of power & runs great but mileage stinks. His 88 model with a 350 got a lot better mileage. I get good mileage in my duramax 3/4, 4x4. Im sure the fords and cummins are good engines too. A lot of guys put power chips in thier diesels and wont take their foot out of em & cant understand why they dont get 21 mpg. If I keep mine at or below 2000 rpm and dont drive like Im at the Indy 500 I get a full 2mpg better than driving at 75mph. Sounds like you plan to keep it awhile and a few miles per gallon adds up over time. Not to mention biodiesel is on the horizon. Ive been burning it for over a year.

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