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Water as fuel

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John S-B

05-24-2006 11:11:25

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Check out wimp.com! There is a video from Fox news about a guy who has developed a way to use water as fuel. If this is real things will really change. Look under the May 22 section. I had not heard of this before, comments?

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Dan-IA

05-25-2006 10:08:33

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Re: Water as fuel in reply to John S-B, 05-24-2006 11:11:25

Hmm. Well I can't really speak for water as a fuel, but I do know that FEMA published a paper (dated back in the late 60s or early 70s) about burning wood to produce a 'wood gas' that gets pumped through a gas engine much like an LP tractor. Complete with design sketches and a photo of a JD tractor outfitted with the equipment to do it.

So you can still farm during a fuel shortage, if you can afford the fuel to run a chain saw. And last I checked, you can go a long ways on a little bit of 2-cycle gas.

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MarkB_MI

05-24-2006 19:29:43

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Re: Water as fuel in reply to John S-B, 05-24-2006 11:11:25

The first three laws of thermodynamics tend to get in the way of these schemes:

1. You can't win.
2. You can't break even.
3. You can't get out of the game.

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RustyFarmall

05-24-2006 13:08:51

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Re: Water as fuel in reply to John S-B, 05-24-2006 11:11:25

The technology has existed since the invention of the internal combustion engine. It is pure and simple electrolisis. The hydrogen fuel can be generated as needed so there is no need for a dangerous storage tank, and the emissions from the exhaust are pure oxygen. So why are we not using it?

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john in la

05-24-2006 12:10:07

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Re: Water as fuel in reply to John S-B, 05-24-2006 11:11:25

It is a proven fact that a car will run on hydrogen.
The government is giving all companies trying to make it practical h*ll. Big oil lines a lot of pockets in D.C.

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Broomstacker

05-24-2006 11:24:31

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Re: Water as fuel in reply to John S-B, 05-24-2006 11:11:25

Everything I've read on this is skeptical. Folks say he's not showing the whole story. The belief is that it takes as much energy to split the water into oxygen and hydrogen as you gain by using the hydrogen. Sure wish it would pan out, though!

It IS true you can enhance engine performance with some judicious water injection. That's been done for years in certain situations--drag racing, tractor pulling, etc.

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Mike (WA)

05-24-2006 14:07:15

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Re: Water as fuel in reply to Broomstacker, 05-24-2006 11:24:31

It generally takes more energy to cause a chemical reaction than you get out of that reaction (except nuclear), but the key is to get the extra energy from a "free" and otherwise unused source, like solar, wind, geothermal, etc., so you get a net gain in usable energy. Some detractors of ethanol technology have stated the proposition that it takes more energy to grow the crop than you get out of the ethanol -it turns out they were counting the solar energy to grow the crop, along with the normal energy inputs (fuel, etc.). Incidentally, theories have been advanced that the solution to global warming is to increase the use of solar energy to the point that less sunlight gets to the earth to warm it, with two positive results- less use of fossil fuels, thereby decreasing greenhouse gases, and less absorbtion of heat by the earth, thereby counteracting the warming of the atmosphere.

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RAB

05-24-2006 13:27:17

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Re: Water as fuel in reply to Broomstacker, 05-24-2006 11:24:31

Broomstacker, Yep. There is no such thing as a free lunch!
Of course it takes exactly the same amount of energy to split water into hydrogen and oxygen gases as you then get while combining them back into water. Of course, you will finish up with less energy to use as processes are not 100% efficient and some of that energy will be lost somewhere - lost heat, transporting the energy (hydrogen), etc.
However, if that initial energy source is free (solar) or otherwise wasted, then the system can be successful.

Just remember that fossil fuels were originally produced with solar energy and our only other sources of energy are gravitational(eg tidal) and nuclear (eg geothermal).
I suppose you could even say that thermo-nuclear bombs are made from water!
As for improving the performance of engines - that depends.
Getting more power by simply cooling the engine components to prevent failure does not necessarily help. Improving the efficiency of an engine at a given power output is another matter entirely.
Gas and deisel and LPG are simply the best fuels (energy sources) at the moment because they are easily stored in the vehicle, easily topped up whenever appropriate, and are readily converted for their energy (compare with coal fired steam engines). That is all that needs to change with other energy sources; when it happens, then the oil companies will wince.
Regards, RAB

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captaink

05-24-2006 12:17:26

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Re: Water as fuel in reply to Broomstacker, 05-24-2006 11:24:31

No argument about the amount of energy it takes to split the H off of H2O. But, with the wind we have here in SD lately we could have generated enough electricity to split enough H off to dry up the Missouri river, tank it, and burn it in August when we need the rain! (A little tongue in cheek but wouldn�t it be great to use renewable energy to create a fuel for our vehicles?)

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boberjagel

05-24-2006 12:17:14

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Re: Water as fuel in reply to Broomstacker, 05-24-2006 11:24:31

I purchased a 38 A john deere and it had a device on it that siphoned water from the radiator hose into the intake. I had never seen this before but some old timers told me alot of the D's had that on them to make more power. Just had to watch radiator water level like fuel tank level.

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BigMarv1085

05-24-2006 12:44:07

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Re: Water as fuel in reply to boberjagel, 05-24-2006 12:17:14

Some of the older military and commercial aircraft used water injection to make the engines more powerful.

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tsix

05-24-2006 15:48:21

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Re: Water as fuel in reply to BigMarv1085, 05-24-2006 12:44:07

Can't say as the system works as advertised due to return on energy invested. Maybe someday... As far as water injection cooling the combustion chamber with water injection came to be known as ADI in WWII aircraft standing for "Anti Detonation Injection". In the modern performance automotive community it is commonly known as Water injection or simply WI. ADI was used on reciprocating engines like the USN C118 cargo plane I crewed in my youth.

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37 chief

05-24-2006 22:51:01

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Re: Water as fuel in reply to tsix, 05-24-2006 15:48:21

The planes I worked on in the navy, The P5M patrol sea plane also used the water injuction. In the Philippines we got the distilled water from the San Miguel Brewery. Stan

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Harley

05-24-2006 16:36:48

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Re: Water as fuel in reply to tsix, 05-24-2006 15:48:21

Well I just proved it's bullcrap. Not a word of truth to it. I just filled my pickup up with water and now it won't even fire, let alone run. I even tried to pull start it to get it reciprocating the hydrogen, nothing doing. I think all them there chemists is on drugs. Now I got a full tank of cheap water for sale and a pickup that won't run. Just dammit, Harley

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Nebraska Cowman

05-24-2006 17:21:06

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Re: Water as fuel in reply to Harley, 05-24-2006 16:36:48

ROFLMAO

Even bad boys are just as good as they can be

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