Pulling stumps

Also to grade for lawn and plow snow, drag logs.

Now (dont laugh to hard) we have gotten a massey harris 22 (I think it is the RC, not sure will check), anyway I was wanting to know how large a stump in relatively loose soil would you be able to work? (As a note one of the big things in the are, Maine, is falling trees because the roots are so shallow).

I know it isnt the safest but I dont see an alternative, financially.

Also there are more than one way to pull a stump. I cant remember what it is called, but its a heavy bar with a cain loop on one end. You put it over the stump and attach the other side to a horse or tractor and it is supposed to twist the stump out (probably leaves some roots).

Thank you
Mike

Would hooking to the front and reversing be safer (for flips and such)?

Mike

Hook a chain onto your drawbar and give it a try. Just go slow and you should see right away if it's going to go or not. Don't jerk the chain.

But don't use a cheap log chain. The heavier, the better. I'm *really picky* about this. Oh, and you really want to make sure your chain length is greater (preferably by a good bit) than the height where you're tying onto the tree.

I've pushed out trees bigger than 3 inches across with a 1086 and a WL-42 Westendorf loader.

No, I drive away from the tree, and tie onto the drawbar. Done it--oh, probably close to 50 times, no problems here.

Little saplings, cut a foot above the ground, then wrap the log chain around it twice and hook it. Then run the other end to the drawbar, and drop it in the lowest gear. I like my Cockshutt 30 for this, because of the creeper gear and you won't hurt a gas engine by lugging it hard enough to stall the engine. (But don't abuse a diesel like that--I've heard it'll bend the crankshaft.) You might have to try pulling it a few times before it actually comes out, but most usually come on the first or second pull.

Larger trees (up to about 20-25 feet high and as big around as your head or less) cut high again. Number of feet high roughly equal to the number of inches across the trunk.) If it's bigger than about 6 inches across, borrow or rent a small backhoe (mine's a 3-pt backhoe) and dig down about 3 feet on 3 sides of the trunk, making a "U" shape. This might take a couple hours. What you're doing here is breaking off a lot of roots. Then tie your cable/chain close to the top of the stump, drop the tractor in low gear, and pull 'er out. You'll want to pull it in the direction of the side of the tree where you didn't dig. (Well, I do, anyway. The direction might not matter.) The height above the ground where you tie the chain is important--you're adding lots of mechanical advantage here. (Think about a lever. You apply force at the end of the lever, the fulcrum is at the ground (the roots) and the distance the top travels as it comes out is multiplying the force that is being applied by the tractor and chain.)

This last method may work for even larger trees, particularly if you dig deeper to cut more roots or tie that chain on higher. (That's all the bigger I've taken 'em on. Bigger than that, I call the local electric company to have 'em cut it down with their big bucket trucks, then have the local excavator guy dig out the stump.)

Risks? Well, yeah, cut the tree down to the height you wanna pull from (sometimes that might be 10 feet high!) This way you won't have the tree fall on you or the tractor. Don't cut it too short though, or tie the chain too low--I've personally snapped several log chains doing that! (And I've been lucky. I've heard of people getting killed if they snap a log chain and the flying chain hits 'em.) But tying that chain good and high will help prevent a chain break.

But that's what I've done. I've stuck with just 3 tractors for pulling trees: my Cockshutt 30 (wish I had a 40--much bigger bull gears), a Farmall 560, and a White 4-150. (Yes, the 4-150 is a diesel. But we figured that cat engine could hack it.)

Take this with a grain of salt. But don't do anything you're not comfortable doing--maybe hiring somebody to cut it just above the ground and using a stump grinder might be the best route for your situation.

A lot of us cheat, using extra care and thinking things out, but when just one thing goes wrong, it becomes an avalanche that there is no escape from.

Mind you, you could rig up and test a few carefully just to see how much resistance there is, but then it's natural to get a little greedy, then you get away with it, then your in full production moving along when that one thing goes wrong. The results make the newspaper and local news and are not anything I would chance.

I spent many years in the site work field, mass excavation, clearing and so on and can tell you that even heavy equipment can struggle with trees, stumps rocks etc. An experienced operator will have trouble somtimes and even the most experienced can become a fatality by making one wrong move, scale it down to rigging and a small tractor, poor traction, too much resistance and you have the combination for an extremely dangerous task.

I've seen chains snap, cables break, things fall out of rigging, had a piece of chain dent my o. r.o.p.s on a D-6 Cat 12 years ago, another genius was pulling a vibratory roller through the mud nearby and the chain snapped, the link hit my o.r.o.p.s. like a bullet, left a dent in the column and or upright.

I still do excavation jobs, using a rental house I have a good relationship with, 2 years ago I took a job to demolish and old in-ground pool, that was concrete and steel panels. They delivered a brand new, plastic still on the seat Cat D-4G dozer,and the first task I had to do was pull a bush out of the old pool, well I hooked to the drawbar, 1st one came out, 2nd one straightened the hook on the chain, and I was pulling up over the steel almost like a block, choked the bush at the base 5 feet down, and this bush took some doing to get out. Chain was heavy duty high tensile, glad it did not break.

Rental houses offer some of the latest equipment technology and compared to hiring a contractor the cost savings is real. The insurance thing is usually the pain, I'm fortunate that the rental house carries it, just have to be very careful, any job with risks get additional insurance. A small hoe, excavator or dozer in the hands of an experienced operator will make short work of it most likely and be a lot safer.

I won't attempt stumps with my hundred series ford and it's balanced nicely, I've towed logs with it, but decided even that is not worth the risk, when they go over, they go too quick to stop, the ford mentioned below that stood up is a good example, he's very lucky to have stopped it from going over. Then you think about the uneeded abuse to whatever it is you are using, just does not seem worth it.

I dont like taking chances. But I have to use a chainsaw almost every day. Not to mention milk a cow by hand (that can be dangerous, let me tell you LOL).

There are specialized equipment for just about anything but I cant afford each of those or rental on each of those. So what are you supposed to do?

Now I will admit all the talk here has scared me about the stumps (hey, I think anyone not scared of danger is just about to dumb to live).

Ill have to think about this problem.

Thank you ALL for the help
Mike

While a project manager, building an 8 story building in Manhattan 5 years ago, I had no material hoist or personnel hoist on the job until an elevator car was running. I had to figure a way to bring the construction garbage to the ground, a chute was out of the question, crane too expensive, the site was a corner on a busy street. I rigged up a wheel well off a beam on the roof, left a line of windows out on an elevation, laborers could tie off and load out the windows to a set back over the 2nd floor, then use a rough opening for HVAC in the slab to dump directly into mini-containers on wheels that they could push to the street to unload into trucks. It worked, also had some risk, but the guys followed my instructions, a wheel well free falls so the guys had to be careful, but it worked.

At least you know of the dangers, and the risks, I'm assuming these are cut already, but as mentioned, cutting them high does provide some leverage, the diameters of these make it tempting, but it depends on the tree type and soils. I can remember how trees I cleared in the sandy areas of NJ, like the pines would have mostly surface roots, a 955 crawler loader would easily pop em out. But because of the sand, something with tires would have a hard time.

When I am confident based on experience and know where to draw the line, I'll bend the rules a little when it comes to equipment, but having experience builds that confidence, that is when it can get you in trouble, it's a fine line. When doing crane work for example, it's by the book, either you respect it or it could kill someone.

It's interesting to read old literature like the Letourneau manuals for their old cable controlled dozer kits for crawlers, back in 30's-40's, they include operating instructions and provide photos and procedures to follow, including how to clear trees, stumps, no overhead protection, certainly has some risk, but the same equipment built this country and helped win WW-II. They show using leverage, pushing up high on trees to knock em over, some of the large crawlers set up for clearing had a long pusher bar to push much higher than a dozer blade.

Whatever you decide, use care, everything has risks, I still fool with cutting trees and doing firewood, so I keep an older and a late model Stihl saw going. I somehow managed to bump my leg with the chainsaw while off, just moving it in the garage, and what a gouge it took out of my leg, thinking wow, imagine if that chain were goin round, got some serious respect for tree work, between falling limbs and chainsaws.

Yep. Most people think that a chainsaw will cut them. They dont realized a chainsaw doesnt cut, it rips and grinds, so when it hits flesh (running) it isnt a clean cut it is more like ground beef. One reason people can die so quick from even a small cut.

But then a study shows the hammer to be the tool that causes the most injuries every year, but that is simply cause so many peole use them.

Again thanks,
Mike

One more question.

Can you increase the safety of pulling (but probably lose power) by running a chain under the tractor and hook it closer the front. Wouldnt this help prevent flips?

It would seem that if the pulling point was closer to the front that the tractor couldn't easily flip.

I know this is normally a no no but just seems logical.

Mike

no but seriously be carful try using a pully system as it will aid in the torque and keep your nose down good luck and save some fun fo all of us

Quite honestly, pulling stumps isn't easy, it's hard on equipment, and it's dangerous. Be very careful.

Back in my granddad's day (when liberty prevailed) they could buy dynamite and blow the stumps.....you don't have any friends with a blasting license do you?

That reminds me, another good reason I wouldn't pull a tree by backing up... The tires have the tread going that way for better traction pulling forward (many tires even have a traction arrow to indicate this.) You lose that by trying to go at it backwards.

Oh, if you dig around a tree and you still can't pull it, a neat trick I learned is to throw a bunch of stuff in the U-trench (like a bunch of old sticks) and set it ablaze. If you get a good hot fire going there, the fire will help burn out the roots, further weakening the tree and making it easier to pull.

A caveat: burning a tree stump rarely burns up the stump--it just chars it black and makes it waterproof. A stump of a dead tree will rot away with time. If you burn it, it'll be there a LOT longer. So be prepared to pull it or dig it out if you do burn it. I've seen stumps rot away in 4 years and less. I've seen burnt stumps last more than 20 (and were still there last I saw 'em.)

Honestly, I'm surprised people here are discouraging this, but I guess it's maybe a liability issue. Hey, if you just got the tractor, get used to it before you start trying something like this. You really need to understand the weight and power of the equipment you're working with first.

(Did you know, if you have an outbuilding and you tie on a logchain, you can pull a building down? Been there, done that! Be very careful, that's all I'm saying.)

Heck, you could use the crank trick too, particularly if you're worried about doing this. Tie on the chain, drive the tractor forward until it's almost tight, kill the motor and leave the kill switch set so it can't start, put the tractor in low gear and go turn the crank out front. This puts the tractor between the chain and you in case you're worried about the chain breaking or slipping (which it shouldn't do anyway because you'll be going so slow at this that you won't jerk that chain.) Yes this is really slow, but it's quite a bit less dangerous. (It's how they tightened wire fences years and years ago.)

But absolutely, if the tree is taller than the tractor, I'd cut it down first. You don't want it falling on you and the tractor. Just cut it as high as you think you'll need to be able to pull it.