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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

Rain Cap

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mitchp

05-26-2006 21:35:02




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I'm looking for a 1" rain cap, i have a muffler that is a little over an inch and the smallest i can find is 1 1/2. I tried one of those and it would not tighten down that far.




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jdmike

05-28-2006 12:48:17




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 Re: Rain Cap in reply to mitchp, 05-26-2006 21:35:02  
I dont like weather caps for the simple fact the smaller diesels and gassers dont have the air flow to hold them fully open and I get more diesel soot in the face than up in the air, I put a nice turnout style stack pipe from a Kubota diesel compact on my tractor, if it plans to rain hard then the old soup can gets stuck on top of the pipe, but if I forget, I dont seem to get any black water and soot when I start her up. Some of the mufflers used by JD have a water trap built in them so the water never makes to the cylinders. Anymore I prefer a turnout instead of a weather cap. You can see this on all the newer JD tractors, all have turnouts and no rain caps. Cheers Mike T

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Hugh MacKay

05-29-2006 03:45:12




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 Re: Rain Cap in reply to jdmike, 05-28-2006 12:48:17  
Mike: Rain caps are truly yesterday's technology. I read your post yesterday, remembered the new mufler I put on my Farmall 140 last year was some what different from earlier Farmall muflers. I looked yesterday and there are two baffles that would deflect water to the outer walls of mufler. The perferations on the inner pipe don't go all the way to the bottom, thus water deflected to the outer wall would be traped in the bottom of the mufler. My guess is it would perhaps hold a couple of cups of water. Soon as one fired the tractor up that would evaporate with an hour.

And your also right on rain caps, over the years I've seen tractors with rain caps blow just as much black wet soot as the tractor not even covered in an overnight situation. Long term would be a different story.

If one measures the size of a stack, times the inches of rain fall, the volume of water over night will be quite small as long as water hasn't been deflected artificially. Tractors out in the open as long as the exhaust is tight will never get enough water to hurt anything even with stack uncovered over night.

I remember once my Farmall 300 and 560 sat for two days in an open field, in a 9" rainfall. 560 had a rain cap, 300 stack was not covered at all. They both fired right up, and both blew about the same amount of black wet soot.

I don't know what some folks use when they talk about heavy rain caps. I remember an old guy with a D7, used to do custom bulldozing in our area. He used to put a brick on top of the rain cap. He had more dings on the hood of that old D7 from the brick falling off. I never could figure why he didn't just throw the rain cap away and carry a can that fit snugly over the stack. I guess the brick stayed on the operators platform, better than the can during the bulldozing hours.

I guess most folks that like rain caps like the rattle at idle speed. At least I've seen guys adjusting their throttle to get the rattle just right before dismounting from the tractor.

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Vern-MI

05-28-2006 05:46:23




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 Re: Rain Cap in reply to mitchp, 05-26-2006 21:35:02  
There are 1" rain caps on EBAY for "Buy it now" price of $10 plus $5 shipping.



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bradk

05-27-2006 06:58:11




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 Re: Rain Cap in reply to mitchp, 05-26-2006 21:35:02  
Use a 1" to 1 1/2" muffler adapter found at parts stores, & don't let anyone talk ya out of a rain cap.They're either cheap-skates or full of crap !!(I learned the hard way from one good rain) ~brad



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Hugh MacKay

05-27-2006 18:34:32




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 Re: Rain Cap in reply to bradk, 05-27-2006 06:58:11  
Brad: Don't be so damn silly as to tell me a rain cap will keep water out better than a soup can. I've seen rain caps in rain and wind wide open and deflecting the water right down the pipe. Your trying to tell me that is better than a soup can 1/4' larger than the stack. Not hard to see who's full of crap.

Anyone that ever got enough water over night to in any way adversely affect the engine, either had it sitting under a tree, in the down draft of a building or other object or the exhaust had leaks below the hood likely at the manifold. Maybe the cap was up in the wind, just a catching water.

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bradk

05-27-2006 20:52:38




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 Re: Rain Cap in reply to Hugh MacKay, 05-27-2006 18:34:32  
Hugh-Seems to me guys like you goofing around with a soup can are the damn silly ones.I don't know what kind of cheapies you buy,but the one I have are heavy and no way are gonna lift with any kind of wind or rust out ever.
No the tractor of mine that was water-logged was not under a tree or building and pipe to manifold was tight.It was a diesel with a 3" pipe and got enough water to wash cylinders causing no compression.After taking off exh. manifold and drying out,fogging oil restored compression.
You will never convince me to use a soup can when less primitive devices are available.Recycle the can & get real.~brad

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Hugh MacKay

05-28-2006 02:43:44




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 Re: Rain Cap in reply to bradk, 05-27-2006 20:52:38  
Brad: To start with you were the one that started the name calling. You didn't comprehend much of what I had to say in either of my posts. May I suggest you go back and read word for word everything I had to say. I did say rain caps will work reasonably well on diesels. That has been my experience. It has also been my experience that rain caps don't work very well on gas engines.

If you put a rain cap on most gassers heavy enough to stay closed it creates too much back presure on the engine. Those little engines don't blow the volume of air diesels do. The gas engines also burn the edges on rain caps very quickly. I happen to know Mitch, and his tractor is a little offset Farmall, take note of the small pipe. If you leave those pre 1962 Farmalls plus the 140 and Cub out in the rain often, because of the design, they will have more water in the transmission than the engine even if the stack is left uncovered. Most makes of older tractors, prior to the early 60s were not very weather proof.

I farmed for many years, bought a lot of new tractors. In my lifetime I've owned 16 Farmalls, 1 Cockshutt, 1 Deere, 2 Case and 1 MF, most of those bought new or very close to new. Amoung them, 5 - 6 cylinder diesels, 2 of those equiped with turbos. I have never rebuilt a diesel under 10,000 hours, and those 5 diesels probably logged about 75,000 hours on my farm. Those diesels all came new with rain caps, and yes many times I've seen those caps wide open in the rain and wind. I can tell you that if those diesels were not being used for a week or more, a bucket with a wire bail was placed over the stack and rain cap as insurance, and tied in place. I might add, I've seen those diesels, with good rain caps, blow just as much black wet crap after a rain as my old Farmall 300 with nothing over the stack.

Now, I want you to tell me why those other 16 gas tractors I bought in my lifetime, did not come equiped with rain caps. Did you ever think, maybe the manufacturers knew rain caps wouldn't work on gassers?

If rain caps were so damn great why have most new tractors and construction equipment gone to exhaust systems that don't go directly down to a manifold or turbo. Those new exhaust systems all have a low point with a drain, before water can get to a manifold or turbo. Most of them don't even use rain caps anymore.

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bradk

05-28-2006 06:29:10




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 Re: Rain Cap in reply to Hugh MacKay, 05-28-2006 02:43:44  
OK Hugh,
I can see we'll never see common ground here.
A heavier cap causing too much back-pressure on a gas? Give me a break!Yes,the gassers don't have the air volume of a diesel,but but a cap causing a back pressure issue?
Also,I have experienced none of what you have on our 19 tractors,other than gassers needing a cap replacement approx every 8-10 yrs.I'm always glad to buy another because they work,and have served our farm well.
It's true that most tractors don't come with a cap, mainly because the stack has a elbow.Also more cost effective to place a bend rather than installing a cap.
As for name calling I wouldn't say cheap-skate is an offensive name-especially when the shoe fits. Hugh,I did get a chuckle from the can hitting ya in the melon from 20'.Good thing the can wasn't any heavier!! Take care..
~brad

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Sid

05-27-2006 07:36:15




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 Re: Rain Cap in reply to bradk, 05-27-2006 06:58:11  
"...don't let anyone talk ya out of a rain cap.They're either cheap-skates or full of crap !!(I learned the hard way from one good rain) ~brad" As far as cheapskates, I much prefer the word thrifty. It could be said anyone who would buy a rain cap, and not use a soup can is lazy, extravagant, and other unflattering things. I personally have observed the same thing Hugh mentioned in his article. As far as being "full of crap" I have read that the average adult has as much as twenty plus pound of fecal matter in their intestines so that statement applies to most of us as well.

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bradk

05-27-2006 13:58:20




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 Re: Rain Cap in reply to Sid, 05-27-2006 07:36:15  
Sid,First of all,I don't recall mitchp asking anyone's opinion to use or not use a rain cap.The only reason I had to bring it up was because someone felt the need to express.
Secondly,the correct term is cheap-skate(sorry if it hurts) as thrifty to me is defined as SMART or CONSCIOUS and would buy something as small as a rain cap to protect an investment.Not someone who decides not to buy something necessary to protect an investment such as a tractor in running order
Thirdly,I didn't know that much fecal matter was in an average adult.Actually fascinating.We learn things every day!! ~brad

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Sid

05-27-2006 07:34:16




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 Re: Rain Cap in reply to bradk, 05-27-2006 06:58:11  
"...don't let anyone talk ya out of a rain cap.They're either cheap-skates or full of crap !!(I learned the hard way from one good rain) ~brad" As far as cheapskates, I much prefer the word thrifty. It could be said anyone who would buy a rain cap, and not use a soup can is lazy, extravagant, and other unflattering things. I personally have observed the same thing Hugh mentioned in his article. As far as being "full of crap" I have read that the average adult has as much as twenty plus pound of fecal matter in their intestines so that statement applies to most of us as well.

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Hugh MacKay

05-27-2006 04:28:19




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 Re: Rain Cap in reply to mitchp, 05-26-2006 21:35:02  
Mitch: I wouldn't look very hard for a rain cap especially on small gas engine tractors. Half the time in heavy rain you look out your window and wind has the rain cap open and is actually deflecting more water down the stack than if it were just an open pipe. Often times a tractor parked near a building will get down draft deflections causing a lot of water to go down the stack.

If your exhaust is tight and tractor is out in the open, even in a 2" rain fall over night you will get very little water down the stack. The important part is that it is started the next morning. The only time I ever cover tractor exhausts is if the tractor is going to be parked for more than a day. The old soup can is still the best insurance against water down the stack. Keep the can very little larger than the stack so wind wont blow it off. I keep a sized soup can in every tractor tool box. In fact I had the same soup can in my 130 for about 10 years now. Had to replace it last week as it had a hole rusted in it.

The other matter I found over the years is rain caps don't last very well on gas engines. I had them on big diesels and they lasted 5 to 10 years. I once put one on my SA and it burned the outer edge of cap off within the first year.

Remember if the soup can is sized, it is virtually water proof. In fact the only time I ever had problems with water getting in the tractor exhaust was a loose pipe where it entered manifold on my Farmall 300. That was clearly water running along the hood and following the pipe. The exhaust actually had a soup can over it.

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Bill(Wis)

05-27-2006 08:59:00




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 Re: Rain Cap in reply to Hugh MacKay, 05-27-2006 04:28:19  
Hugh: I bought a can of olives that was packaged in a can that appears to be aluminum.At least it hasn't shown any rust yet and is still shiny. It is just the right fit for one of my tractors and is a lot of fun to watch because it flys higher than any I've had before when I forget to remove it.



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Hugh MacKay

05-27-2006 16:50:26




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 Re: Rain Cap in reply to Bill(Wis), 05-27-2006 08:59:00  
Bill: That forgetting can be painful, couple of times I had it come down from about 20' and hit my bald head. Always seems to happen when I don't have a hat on.



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williamf

05-27-2006 05:02:44




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 Re: Rain Cap in reply to Hugh MacKay, 05-27-2006 04:28:19  
When I was too young (maybe 10 or 11)the only thing I could do at the tractor shop that was really much help was to go around the yard at the end of the day and make sure evey muffler had a can on it. Wm



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RustyFarmall

05-27-2006 05:06:55




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 Re: Rain Cap in reply to williamf, 05-27-2006 05:02:44  
I've even punched a hole in the side of the can, ran a wire through that hole and then down through the hole in the hood, tie it to the manifold somewhere, and then no matter how strong the wind is, the can won't blow off.



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souNdguy

05-26-2006 21:59:15




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 Re: Rain Cap in reply to mitchp, 05-26-2006 21:35:02  
If yuo can't find the small 1" cap, bushing the 1.5" one down to it.. shouldn't be too hard.

Soundguy



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ljl

05-26-2006 21:51:20




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 Re: Rain Cap in reply to mitchp, 05-26-2006 21:35:02  
try your local IH dealer they were used on the cub muffler



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bison

05-26-2006 21:43:54




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 Re: Rain Cap in reply to mitchp, 05-26-2006 21:35:02  
you can also take a a 90 decree elbow and weld that to the muffler instead of the cap. I doubt if you can find a cap that small.



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