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1086 International

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farmerrichard

07-03-2006 17:07:31

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Does a 1086 International have live hydralics? And what is the rated horsepower of it? And last but not least what size International tractoer would rate out at about 125 horsepower.

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Glen in TX

07-04-2006 12:13:38

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Re: 1086 International in reply to farmerrichard, 07-03-2006 17:07:31

Ran one of those #$%*&^! haybinder 1086s for a neighbor and you couldn't keep the thing going long enough to get any work done. Spent more time repairing it than plowing. I wasn't even about to touch the TA and get left afoot. The shifter set up was the worst thing of those too and I suppose that's why you see kits and parts to rework the shifter.

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steveormary

07-04-2006 10:13:53

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Re: 1086 International in reply to farmerrichard, 07-03-2006 17:07:31

johnfarmer is right about hiring some one to run a tractor for you. They seem to know more about how to run your tractor then you do. Hired a fellow to cultivate corn for me. Shortly after I had to have clutch and TA repaired.

steveormary

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Jonfarmer

07-04-2006 11:09:32

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Re: 1086 International in reply to steveormary, 07-04-2006 10:13:53

Yeah, you don't want a T/A tractor if your going to hire help to run it. You can tell them not to do this and that, and it'll just go right through 1 ear and right out the other, you don't get smart people to work for you for $6-7 an hr, which is about all farmers can afford to pay someone. As one old fellow said a few weeks ago when he sold out at auction. "I needed help, but I couldn't afford good help, and I really couldn't afford cheap help". The clutches don't last long either if you get yourself a clutch rider, or a person that slips the clutch alittle excessivly with a heavy load, and you'll end up with a bad clutch real quick!.

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RickL

07-04-2006 05:38:02

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Re: 1086 International in reply to farmerrichard, 07-03-2006 17:07:31

Yes it has live hyd and you will find it to be a decent unit, I bought unit new and ran it few year,traded it off for 4440 deere. It was the roughest riding unit ever been in and I just never like the shift on left,hyd on right etc. cab door was something to be desired when wind catches it. watch the shift lever alo gettin in out of the unit it can make you have a nast fall. Had a 5088 later it was okay also but now simply have the green stuff will definitely stay with it. Money stays better in resale alos that for sure. they will all do the job just how you look at it.

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Cliff Neubauer

07-03-2006 18:55:09

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Re: 1086 International in reply to farmerrichard, 07-03-2006 17:07:31

We bought a new 1086 in the early fall of '81 and it now has over 10,000 hours on the original engine and TA. The TA is getting weak in our's but I think the MCV pump is getting weak and causing the TA problems.

The 4440's may bring alot more money than the 1086s but if you look at the production numbers I think you'll find that there are alot more 1086s out there than 4440's supply and demand is a big part of resale value.

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massey333

07-04-2006 04:55:42

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Re: 1086 International in reply to Cliff Neubauer, 07-03-2006 18:55:09

Where did you get your Prod. nos. at?I'am guessing that there are 10-15 4440s for every 1 1086 out there and probably 20 1066s to every 1 1086.No one has said anything about having to replace the rear ends in them every two-three years.We had a few dealers back in the 70s-80s who wouldn't sell TA tractors unless the customer DEMANDED IT. JD had their problems but it wasn't trans.or rear end ones.

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Steven@ND

07-03-2006 18:21:09

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Re: 1086 International in reply to farmerrichard, 07-03-2006 17:07:31

1086 is a good tractor, ours has always dyno'ed over 135 horsepower. Fuel efficient, too.

Live PTO and hydraulics, check.

The TA? Ours has close to 10,000 hours and is on the second one...

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Allan In NE

07-03-2006 18:26:58

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Re: 1086 International in reply to Steven@ND, 07-03-2006 18:21:09

That T/A gets a bad rap.

It's kind of like the drive or fly arguement.

For the number of hours worked, they seldom ever fail.

Allan

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Jonfarmer

07-03-2006 18:38:43

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for arguments sake. in reply to Allan In NE, 07-03-2006 18:26:58

The 4440 was John Deeres answer to the 1086, theirs had powershift, and sells for twice the price of a 1086 today. Hhm, makes you think the JD must be twice the tractor too?.

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the tractor vet

07-03-2006 19:07:40

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Re: for arguments sake. in reply to Jonfarmer, 07-03-2006 18:38:43

AHHHhhhhh NOT but it will use more fuel the a 1086 . Yea the T/A's do fail and so does the quad range on the Deere's Now for my money i'll take the I H anythime as far as i am concerned it is the bottom line that i look at and if ya got payments to make out of the BIG cash crop lets see here . Now i paid 10500 for the 1086 vers the 18500 for the 4440 and corn is payen after dryen 1.80 now you bought the 4440 because it is green and uses more fuel at 2.85 a gallon you used 550 gallon to get your crop in the ground verses my 475 gallon . Oh yea the corn does not care what color put it in the ground.

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buickanddeere

07-03-2006 21:21:45

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Re: for arguments sake. in reply to the tractor vet, 07-03-2006 19:07:40

After spending $6000.00 to have the dealer replace the TA, the 1086 is still worth only 1/2 of what the 4440 brings. And you are now in most of the price of a 4440. And the planting or harvest is now delayed too. Some bargain. There is the cheapest and there is what costs the least. And that 4440 didn't depreciate and held it's value. That's called wise future finacial planning. As for fuel efficiency of the JD v.s IH? It depends more on if somebody has turned up the fuel screw and/or didn't clean air filters often enough. Anybody have a copy of the Nebraska tests b.t.w?

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the tractor vet

07-04-2006 07:57:32

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Re: for arguments sake. in reply to buickanddeere, 07-03-2006 21:21:45

Well i don't need a dealer to replace the T/A or anything elseand if i was doing a T/A for a customer it would not be 6000 bucks that is a rip off . And there again you would know long before ya needed the tractor that it needed fixed BEFORE PLANTING SEASON . And if the T/A did happen to go out the tractor would still run with out it . I croped farmed for years with what you people threw away . The one old pice that made me the most money was a old Massey 300 combine that i bought for 650 bucks added a cab for a 100 bucks upgraded the charging system for 40 bucks and ran that combine for 10 years doing my owen crops plus around 600 acres a year custom work at 25 buck and acre other then replacing a few belts and a few bearing here and there and around 35-40 gallon of gas a day i could do 20-25 acres a day with that old combine. Then some guy just had to have it and i sold it for 2900 bucks . I have only owned one pice of Deere equipment and that is my 1240 planter that i bought in 84 and it is getting time to find a newer throw away that i will rebuild and use till there is nomore to fix.

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buickanddeere

07-04-2006 15:31:22

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Re: for arguments sake. in reply to the tractor vet, 07-04-2006 07:57:32

I've tried keeping older equipment, vehicles etc going and newer equipment operating. I can't afford new and certainly can't afford the price of parts and downtime. I can't afford depreciation either.

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Allan In NE

07-03-2006 18:45:38

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Re: for arguments sake. in reply to Jonfarmer, 07-03-2006 18:38:43

Now I understand where you're coming from. :>)

Allan

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Jonfarmer

07-03-2006 19:02:20

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Re: for arguments sake. in reply to Allan In NE, 07-03-2006 18:45:38

Well this is an arguement that no IH guy can win. When it comes to who had the better transmission, I think I'd pick a powershift over a regular gear drive and a T/A. Sure the red tractors were ok, but it really says something that these machines sold for about the same money new, and one is worth twice what the competitions is worth today after all these years. I think JD might have had a better cab too, I'll bet they didn't have doors that lked to swing shut and hit you in the rear like the 1086 had.

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Dan-IA

07-03-2006 19:21:50

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Re: for arguments sake. in reply to Jonfarmer, 07-03-2006 19:02:20

The self-closing doors?

Well, as they taught me to say in the computer classes in college... "That's not a bug, it's a feature!" You get in, leave the doors open, skip first gear and go straight to second, dump the clutch and the doors slam shut for you. Slick!

JD tractors are painted green because that's exactly what the dealers want to see. Lots and lots of green. And my bank has the words "John Deere" in their name. Have you ever heard of a bank run by IH?

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Jonfarmer

07-04-2006 11:24:12

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Re: for arguments sake. in reply to Dan-IA, 07-03-2006 19:21:50

So doors that whack you in the rear while your climbing aboard is something to appreciate huh?, yes I know they won't provided you opened the door all the way and the wind doesn't take it, but if it does, watch out because that spring loaded door will whack you a good one. John Deeres are painted green because you make alot of green with them, and need a bank to put your money in :') ok, ok, just kidding but, if IH had had a bank, it would have belly up back in the 80's along with their entire tractor line. You must be referring to "John Deere Credit", which is not really a bank, since you can't have a checking account with them or anything, but they will offer you a line a credit to buy their products, and only their products.

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massey333

07-04-2006 11:54:41

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Re: for arguments sake. in reply to Jonfarmer, 07-04-2006 11:24:12

JD Farm Plan Case Credit Vantage will buy a lot of Other Goods.Farm Plan will fiance your whole operating Cost.

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Steven@ND

07-03-2006 18:32:47

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Re: 1086 International in reply to Allan In NE, 07-03-2006 18:26:58

I know exactly why the original failed in ours... Dad got older and decided it was easier on his back to shift it slowly --- only took a couple years once he started doing that to take it out. Now we have the "mechanical diode" TA in it...

Who needs a TA anyway? IH has lugging power! The TA has been out of our 1256 for about 6 years now, we took the lever off so no one tries to shift it.

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Bob

07-03-2006 21:36:50

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Re: 1086 International in reply to Steven@ND, 07-03-2006 18:32:47

Deere's "2-speed" planetary component of the "Quad Range" tranny commonly makes 10,000 to 12,000 hours, or more, without failure, and when it does fail, it requires only one split, between the engine and the clutch housing, for total access and replacement.

Try to get that many hours out of an IH TA, and then, when it does fail, it requires 2 splits, and removal of the tranny lower shaft, to allow TA replacement!

Don't get me wrong, I collect and run both GREEN and RED, and appreciate them both, but there is no comparison in strength and longevity between the RED TA, and the GREEN planetary 2-speed!

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farmerrichard

07-03-2006 20:30:29

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Re: 1086 International in reply to Steven@ND, 07-03-2006 18:32:47

Thanks everyone but for my money I'll take the 1086 over the 4440. I can't afford all that expensive green paint. Besides, if I like green I have a paint brush.

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Tex Aggie

07-03-2006 18:02:07

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Re: 1086 International in reply to farmerrichard, 07-03-2006 17:07:31

never had to rebuild a T/A on our tractor. About live PTO, not sure if you are referring to the shaft constantly spinning (like my m5 moline), it doesnt. got about 10k+ hrs on ours and is a solid workhorse.

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Jonfarmer

07-03-2006 18:16:13

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Re: 1086 International in reply to Tex Aggie, 07-03-2006 18:02:07

Thats unheard of, most of them have had several rebuilds over the years. Like I said, it mostly depends on the operator as to how long they last. Start drawing a manure tanker with it or something thats real heavy and then use the low side of the T/A for a brake to slow the load down as you turn in/out of your fields like most people do, then see how long it lasts.

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RustyFarmall

07-03-2006 18:21:59

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Re: 1086 International in reply to Jonfarmer, 07-03-2006 18:16:13

You might want to re-read your manual. The TA was never intended to be a braking device. If you abuse it, it will break.

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Jonfarmer

07-03-2006 18:29:55

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Re: 1086 International in reply to RustyFarmall, 07-03-2006 18:21:59

yes, but like I said, most people do use them for a brake and they never read the manual, and the more often they use it for that, the less life your going to get out of a T/A. I worked for a fellow who had a 1466 that he let his son in law run, brand new T/A only lasted 3yrs.

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Jonfarmer

07-03-2006 17:29:26

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Re: 1086 International in reply to farmerrichard, 07-03-2006 17:07:31

Yes, a 1086 has live pto and hydrolics, this is quite the workhorse and they put out a dead reliable 130hp on the pto all day long out of a six cylinder turbocharged International DT414 engine. The only weakness these had was the T/A needs rebuilding every so often, mostly depending upon the operator as to how long they last in between rebuilds. These are excellent cheap horsepower, and if your looking at 125hp or so, then you found it.
Hope this helps

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07-03-2006 21:37:05

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Re: 1086 International in reply to Jonfarmer, 07-03-2006 17:29:26

TA's will go out if you use them or not. There are after market units out there now with TA's having life time warranties. The catch is it is not transferable. As for the 1086, it uses the 436 engine. The only tractor to use the 414 was the 1066. I'm very green blooded, but those 86 series are a very popular tractor, and there are some in this area with a lot of hours on them and still going strong. Lots of green with high hours also.

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Allan In NE

07-03-2006 18:14:33

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Re: 1086 International in reply to Jonfarmer, 07-03-2006 17:29:26

Every so often?

Yeah, like every 40 or 50 years. Maybe. :>)

Allan

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Jonfarmer

07-03-2006 18:25:28

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Re: 1086 International in reply to Allan In NE, 07-03-2006 18:14:33

Thats because you don't put them to work enough. So tell me why there are so many of these IH tractors out there that have bad T/A's?. You want to find out how short a T/A can last?, hire you some employees to run your stuff, then you will find out whats easily bent and broken.

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davpal

07-03-2006 19:41:47

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Re: 1086 International in reply to Jonfarmer, 07-03-2006 18:25:28

The best T/A in any tractor is no T/A in any tractor. Face the facts, they ALL go bad soon enough. The amount of time they save you from having them in the tractor over the years can never overcome the price of the labor and parts to fix them when they go bad. Most tractors need a 5 speed transmission on them like a farmall H. No Go@ Da*m powershift to go out! 5th gear to go down the road, 2nd or 3rd for plowing and 3rd or 4th to disk of field cultivate. The T/A's they are putting in these tractors are physically not much bigger than a 205 borg warner gear drive transfer case found in early ford, chevy, and dodge 4wd pickups! Bottom line, if they are going to put a T/A in a tractor it should have a flange in the front and a flange in the back that can be taken out as an assembly in about an hour. Not a 40 hour job at a dealer at $85 dollars an hour. Ends up being a $6000 dollar repair on a big tractor because of the time and expensive parts and nobody wants to do it for you anyway. I am facing this on a white 4-150 someday, It is a brute and seems to do quite well, just one basic archillees heel and that is the tree speed powershift that they promptly took out when they built the 4-180 a few years later. (Good idea)! So what, it has 12 speeds instead of 16, but is much more durable. The tractor companies are trying to swoon us in whith gadgets like the car companies and all they are building are machines that are a liability to own. Walk around a tractor junkyard and there are many more late model tractors that cost more to fix than they are worth that look ok. Then look at all the farms that are still using old JD 2 poppers, Farmall H, M, C, A, Bn's, fergesons, ford 9n and 8ns, Allis Wds. Powershifts are gimmicks and a guy could probably get rich by designing "dummy shafts" that replace the T/A for a couple hundred bucks a piece. I know a lot of you have powershifts with 10,000 hrs on them but most of the people have a nightmare story about a powershift, not a success story. Later

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Jonfarmer

07-04-2006 11:46:55

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Re: 1086 International in reply to davpal, 07-03-2006 19:41:47

T/A eliminator kits are availible, but you'd lose half your gears so you'd only have 8 instead of 16 speeds ahead. Thats ok you say, except that finding just the right speed to do something for maximum efficency just got alittle harder since you now have only 6 or so off road speeds now to choose from. I'd love to get myself a newer tractor with all kinds of gimmicks and gadgets in it, my gosh the though of an isolated air conditioned cab, and a radio working on a hot day sure would be nice. instead of straddling my open stationed tractor's transmission getting cooked off the heat pouring off from the engine and transmission plus dealing with the heat of the day. Yeah, powershift transmissions are great, and sure they all eventually have problems, but the whole T/A discussion is on how they are a weak link in these tractors that can be a major PITA. Chances are the powershift transmission in the 4440 would need fewer rebuilds than a T/A equipped tractor over the years.

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davpal

07-04-2006 19:05:19

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Re: 1086 International in reply to Jonfarmer, 07-04-2006 11:46:55

Actually I misprinted that about the trans. It has 6 forward gears with a 3 speed powershift so it actually has 18 forward gears. A 4-180 white just used a hi-low gear box that you just have to stop to shift that gives you 12 forward speeds instead of 18. If I got serious about it I would probably put a 4-180 box in if the 4-150 powershift was too complicated to rebuild. Honestly though, I plow in 3rd direct. 4.5 mph. I disk in 3rd direct, and cultimulch in 4th direct, I think about 5.5 mph. That is about all I use the tractor for and I have no problem with gears. Going down the road in direct is 16.9 mph and overdrive is about 19 mph. Not a huge difference in travel time. I could get by easily with a straight 6 speed in the old girl. I just like stuff that is stone reliable, not frills. It has a radio, heater and a cab, ac don't work but could be got going if I wanted it. Don't use it in hot weather much at all in the spring. I do appreciate the heater though because in michigan it is cold a lot in the fall and spring. Main reason I didn't buy something like a 4430 was because of price and I wanted an articulated 4wd because we have one wet farm we do and I didn't want to be getting stuck if I could avoid it! Not that 4wd is unstickable. IH or JD would have been better tractors but the white has been pretty good for the price. Later.

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RodInNS

07-04-2006 14:56:33

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Re: 1086 International in reply to Jonfarmer, 07-04-2006 11:46:55

This one sure stirred up a hornet's nest, didn't it? I think you're right about the T/A. The one's I've seen and heard about around here had their share of problems. That may have been more operator.....errr driver related, but one guy I used to know sure had his share of problems with it. To be honest, the T/A is one of the things that would turn me off of an IH over a similar Ford or Deere. Rightly or wrongly. That said, if it was there, and the price was right, I probably wouldn't worry too much about it until it started to fail.
All that said, I'm no fan of Deere's power shift. It may be a great reliable transmission, but I don't find it's functionality well suited to my liking. It made me appreciate my Ford's 8 speed with dual power a whole lot more after I got clear of the 4440 I ran a couple years ago. The best part about the Ford's or the IH for that matter is that you don't have to feed fuel to the Deere. The Deere was very proficient at burning fuel, whatever it's virtues were. I could care less about it's resale value if it bankrupts me at the fuel tank beforehand. I don't think there are too many people that claim the 4440 to be fuel efficient either, but I could be wrong.

Rod

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