OT / Speeding Ticket!

And guess what...it was the last day of the month and we have a new firehouse and police station to pay for...me being bitter or just a coincedence?

Next --- ask for the Radar unit to be brought into Court Working... then --- ask the Judge to have the Radar Unit Demonstrated in Court, by pointing it out the Window if there is a window, and you will find that if pointed to a Wall, it may show a speed indicated, ( I hope there is a window in the Court Room.) Because the Radar unit will bounce off the Wall and pick-up the next moving object. showing that the wall is moving... Most Likey, the Police Department will not want to go through all this trouble, and down grade your Ticket, ((( Take the Deal ))) Good Luck, let me know what you decide...Joe

They do that here with the DOT shakedowns all the time. They set up their roadblocks and nail you for all kinds of stupid stuff. They interpret the laws to say whatever they want and there is nothing you can do about it. They usually waddle around until they make up about $500.00 in fines and then let you go. The next time you get stopped they will get for something else that was just fine the time before.

All they are is a collection agency for the rest of the Boss Hogg clan.

I never get stopped in the Cadillac, but just let me get in the Corvette, which I drive exactly the same by the way, and just watch the police flock around. But if I do get stopped, when they see that I ain`t exactly a spring chicken, they just send me on my way. Many traffic stops have very little to do with speed or driving habbits. Got stopped once in the `41 Buick, just so the officer could find out what kind of car it was. Guess he never thought of just calling in the plate number. LOL

You can cross examine the cop so have your questions such as how did he know he shot you versus another car and to describe the guns calibration and whether he asked you if you wanted to see the reading etc etc but those cops know what to say.

Tell your story as you did here and call your wife as a witness and explain the situation by looking the judge straight in the eye and youy may have a chance but UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES say/admit anything at all like MAYBE I WAS DOING 56 OR 60 ETC CUZ THEN YOU HAVE ADMITTED GUILT AND THE JUDGE WOULD HAVE TO RULE AGAINST YOU

You are allowed to call the Prosecutors office and obtain a copy of his evidence and should so youre better informed. You could speak with whatever deputy prosecutor or prosecutor who was assigned to the case but it likely wont do any good and again DONT ADMIT TO ANYTHING OVER 55 MPH

Best wishes n God Bless, let us know how it turns out

John T The Country Lawyer Bloomington Indiana

While I agree with you on some of JD's potential defenses, I do have a problem with not admitting to going over 55mph under any circumstance.

I realize I'm just some cop and not an attorney, but I'm pretty sure you'll agree with me that a traffic infraction is a civil proceeding, not a criminal trial. Big difference in giving testimony.

Unlike a criminal proceeding, in an infraction case you can be compelled to provide testimony, even if it is incriminating. Which means if JD or his wife are asked by the prosecutor or judge if they were / could have been going faster than the speed limit, they best not fib. Perjury is a lot more serious than a traffic infraction.

By the way, I've testified many times in the Monroe County Circuit Courts (Bloomington).

Just something to think about JD.

A good friend of mine is runnin for Sheriff up here and my Marine son Sgt Brandon got an appointment with the Secret Service and is at the Federal Law Enforcement Camp somewhere in Georgia right now.

It was good chattin with ya, take care now n God Bless. Were headed to Jasper Indiana for the Strassenfest later..... ...Beer n Fried Chicken n Polka music, it just dont get any better lol

John T

They were resurfacing a 20 mile stretch of a highway that I drive quite frequently. At either end of the 20 mile stretch they posted a sign "ROAD WORK AHEAD" and below that a small sign "FINES DOUBLE IN WORK AREAS".

Logically they started at one end of the project.

The day the signs went up and for about 2 weeks after that there was a County Sherrif's car sitting 10 miles from any constructon and writing tickets.

This has nothing to do with public safety and everything to do with revenue enhancement.

If it is a safety issue, I'm all for it.

As a volunteer fire chief, I work with law inforcement a lot at accident scenes, ect. For the most part they are all just doing there job and are good people. Unfortunately it only takes a few like the one I mentioned above to give them all a bad reputation.

I woould go to court and question the method he used to determine your speed and simply ask if the radar was calibrated according to manufatures requirements. Take witness. Just my thoughts.

My experience has been, pay the stupid ticket and move on with your life. I fought one Traffic ticket[not heeding a traffic control signal, Red light] and the reward was not worth the cost.I attended Traffic School which was a Joke, to avoid points on my License. 8 Hrs of nonsense mostly, plus cost.

I hope this helps.

Still its hard to envision a red Vette' doing under 120 on an empty interstate at 3 AM.

One thing that every customer failed was watching his speedometer and then calibrating it. None had looked at their speedometer near the time the radar was applied. Had they looked at the speedometer when seeing the patrol car and then checked it with a stop watch on mile markers or better the aircraft spots, then there's some argument possible about equipment and I was certainly aware of my speed and this is what I saw.

Without that direct testimony, the best expert witness can't win you a case. I've not seen that applied, but after four losses I refused to take on any more unless the accused could make such testimony. And I've not testified in a speed case since.

Gerald J.

In years past, I have been in my share of court's etc., now knowing the process's quite well, and in detail, although it's strange, I've got a clean abstract for my class A for close to 15 years and don't really ever have a need for speeding 5 M.P.H. over is tops for me. Good driver insurance discount for years now. Same kind of mentality on driving, early to the job, who needs the anxiety of being late in a rush etc.

I 2nd the DA route, I had that work for me once, on a unique, but probably more serious situation, over our old farmhouse condemnation/demolition. Yep I did borrow said contractors equipment, but they claimed serious damage to it, was no damage at all, treated it like my own, nice and easy, although I certainly had a beef with them for tearing down the place, we won an injuction in court to stop them, no need to fool with there already worn, and I mean junk equipment, old detroit powered American excavator leaking so bad I called in spill response on him, was our place he's leaking on, what a scene that year was. They tried, but myself and an atty. got to the DA 1st to discuss the matter. It was not going to hold up in court, and we got our point across, the atty. then made a deal, also had a clean record etc. I also hate to say, the right atty. is usually worth paying for just for that representation in most situations and if there is points involved, rather pay the fine ( his fees LOL ) and court costs vs points. Needless to say the judge was real grumpy over the deal too. Yeah something was going on, was a town contractor too, long story....

I'd always rather take the fine over the points for a traffic infraction, especially a moving violation, beacuse of the insurance, good driver + the safety course discount, keeps the rates super low.

But like was mentioned, you have to be articulate and not go on the offense, have to negotiate the curves smoothly in a manner of speaking.

I got nailed on the Henry Hudson Bridge, wrong plates on ( another story ) driving commercial on the parkway and no insurance. Well I explained in a letter to the Manhattan court that I have 2 trucks registered, one passenger,one commercial, I inadvertently mixed them up and installed them wrong, ( well that's really a lie, but to get in and out of NYC at the hours I worked, and because of the harsh restrictions at the crossings after 9-11-01 were just an absolute unbearable nightmare, you needed to switch plates daily, commercial going in, passenger out to make it work, and I needed to be registered passenger ) I stated and agreed that the officer was quick to notice the plates were wrong compared to the registration, but that it was indeed registered passenger, so therefore please toss the commercial vehicle on the parkway violation, and I had misplaced my insurance card, so I got duplicates and eventually the court told me to mail everything to Albany NY, dept. of motor vehicle, who reviewed it and tossed the entire thing out. It was several hundred in potential fines + court fees, I paid not a dime except for return receipt certified mail. I have the file stapled in chronological order with all attachments for record ) These new rash restrictions made our lives tough to deal with, but nothing compared to what others had to deal with. They were rash, immediate emergency restrictions, no time to think them out, eventually it changed things were easier after 2 years. I had to fight it, I felt I was right, all of it over for what it says on a lousy stamped piece of metal, for a pickup truck.

There has to be a way, speak with an atty. hopefully find an angle and get some leverage.

Clowns..... . LOL ..... . here we go again, ( it's ok, still not going to agree with the inference made, but I can understand your end to a degree, don't mean I agree 100% though, get it ? )

Now do you really want me to respond to this, it's always going to be an US and THEM thing, that is a given, one thing I can tell you is showing some respect when warranted ( yeah decent people are shaded by a lot of bad people ) is a good thing. Yeah I know how it's hard to determine who is dangerous and who is a friend, it's the screwed up society we live in. Still can't be sour. So people whine, what's new, I hate whiners just as much, why not send them to Iraq or Afghanistan, or a third world country with food shortages, disease, drought, etc. ? You really got nothing to whine about here if you know what I mean.

I put a young sherriff deputy in his place last week, why because I won't tolerate the unprofessional atttitude of any civil servant that my tax dollars contribute to paying for the service, and I certainly don't reciprocate any disrespect when dealing with these people, but some do feel that the empowerment with the badge and weapon, and the law, is the green light to intimidate people and if they make a mistake, it's at your expense unless you are diligent enough to turn the tables and catch them. I could go on and on, have many friends in your same agency, I know enough of what goes on, from patrol to forensic investigation, some of your work is nasty business, caused by some of the most despicable people known to mankind, we know that, we know that someone has to deal with these people, we have law enforcement agencies to deal with this, comprised of brave people who make it a career to enforce our laws and maintain civilization in a just order. I lived next to a barracks for over 3o years, I saw a lot of people brought in over those years and I know of a lot of things that went on that the public don't know. NYS troopers get the most respect of all, I've seen plenty of local guys toss a career away on some stupid crap, some with a mean streak a mile long, but hey at least we have order. People with badges do get out of line, problem is they are supposed to win all the time when they screw up, they already have a distinct advantage, I don't think so, you can contest things without being threatening, confrontational, argementative, there are means to settle a dispute, arbitration, mediation, litigation, what makes a law enforcement officer immune to performance evaluation, or questioning their professional demeanor, especially if there is good reason, who the hell says I can't question something that is unreasonable ? It's BS

Hey if you are a jerk and are constantly breaking the law, then you deserve what you get. In a case like this, there is a strong possibility that something may be wrong. I'm not going to give an officer a bunch of crap, act like a raving idiot and get subdued for some stupid nonsense, However, I will ask questions, and gather all information due, and be firm about it if I get the run around, and then do what is necessary be it court or whatever it takes. I've won or had things tossed out many times, some of which I did to lessen the impact, I was still wrong, but others it was clearly a case of fighting back for a cause I believed in, and not to undermine the law or make a mockery of the law and it's enforcement people. There is a fine line of the interpretation of the law and you guys are the custodians who make that judgement call and it's a judgement call in many instances, some are cut and dry, others are not and you know this, it's your job to know this.

All people do make mistakes, there are times when things can and do need to be questioned, it's that simple, forget about the whining and sniveling people who complain about everything, these people will always be miserable, I'm talking about people of good moral character and ethics, who contribute more than they take, work hard and try and lead a good just life, treating others with respect and decency. If you go to a court room on court night, I see the whiners and the problematic people, many from the inner city,it's not an easy life, not easy to get away from a bad scene and it ruins many people, but there also those who find a way out and become educated and learn more for the sake of self improvment, I hate to classify people like this but you know exactly what I am talking about, you've been in many court rooms, some people just never get over the hump, and end up dealing with the law constantly, and you see a lot of those people I'm sure.

About 8 years ago I was stopped for doing 70 in a 55. I knew it was *&^% because I spotted the patrol car and checked my speed - I was doing 61. I asked to see the radar reading it showed 63, I asked the officer why he was writing a ticket for 70 when he only had me clocked at 63? He told me I slowed before he could "get a lock". Told me to appeal it in court. Called the county attorney and told him my story and he said the "officer" didn't have to show me the radar gun and that all tickets are prosecuted as written. Called a lawyer in that town and he said it sounded like I had a case but I'd be wasting my time and money fighting it, the judge, county attorney and officer all get paid by the county, why would they cause problems for each other.

Do not attack the officer or do anything that could be interpreted as sour grapes or casting aspersions on anyone or any group. After all you are a law abiding citizen who hasn't had a ticket in umteen years and are aften chided by your fellow neighbors for driving so slow. You would be terrified of going 81 mph. You don't know what but there must be some mistake. Maybe the fine officers equipment hickupped or something. You aren't an expert but something went wrong. Bring in your wife who of course will swear you were going 55 mph, or what ever.

Your objective is to plead it down to an illegal left turn or some no point violation. Do not hold out for dismissal. Too many egos involved.

Thank the Deputy in advance for spending his valuable time trying to help you. Explain to him also in advance you really need his help.

An ex-cop. HTH

Plead not quilty. In my case, the officer didn't even show up for court; something funny was going on, that's for sure.

Allan

and driving like an old man means I take the back roads home, smelling the cut hay, the corn filling out..... ..I even stop to watch guys plowing disking whatever...I was raised in farming and we had to quit when I was about 10-11 because dad was told he had emphysema (sp?) and if he didn't get out of farming it would kill him. He found out later he didn't have it and is still going strong (Dad 77,Mom 75) playing with a 40 and 60 JD, I have his 50 to "store" for him. Thanks for all the help..... ..I'll just ask for guidance, tell the truth and FIGHT IT! Let y'all know later. The date is August 24. Mike

All cops are not cut out of the the same "cookie cutter mold". They are just like any other job classification. I've worked with good ones and bad ones. There are good cops just like there are good farmers, businessmen, preachers, etc. There are also bad ones just like there are bad farmers, businessmen, preachers, etc.

I agree the court costs are outrageous but they are set by your county prosecutor and judge to go towards their budgets. The state mandates judge's salaries and the counties have to come up with a way to pay them. The court costs are what costs so much and this goes to help pay the judge, prosecutor and staff. The small fine in front of the court costs goes to the state of Indiana for the police academy not for new fire or police buildings.
Good luck to you in whatever you decide to do. I've tried to help but will defend myself and the police profession.

As I read his posts, it would appear that JD might have been exceeding the speed limit. Just how fast is his real point of contention.

In all probability JD's best bet, as you outline, is to offer to plead to the lower mph, thereby lowering the points against his license and maybe the fine. If the points are a problem, most Indiana counties offer a deferral program that avoids a conviction against the driver's record.

As you also state, no Indiana city or town makes real money off of state statute traffic offenses. The court costs, the biggest part of the total amount, is determined by the state legislature, with the money earmarked for various entities in the system. Only the fine is left to the judge's discretion, and that usually runs from $0 - $50 on traffic offenses. Now, if the local officer writes you for a city or town ordinance, that's a different story. But those are the exception, not the rule.

If you decide to go to court, as is your right, take your wife as a witness. Keep in mind though, if either of you admit that your speed was or could have been over the posted limit, you might as well have just paid the ticket. In Indiana, infractions are judged by a perponderance of the evidence, not beyond a reasonable doubt like crimes are. In other words, who does the judge believe more and who's story makes the most sense. Believe it or not, I've seen judges rule against police officers on plenty of occasions.

As far as the crooked / incompetent cops, yes, they're out there. For the crooked farmers and equipment dealers, look no farther than the buyer/seller feedback forum on this website.

Good luck JD, no matter which way you decide to handle this.

Hurryin_Hoosier (a police officer for 21 years and visiting vehicle stops instructor to the Indiana LE Academy)