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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

Buying Warm Gas

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Uncle

08-21-2006 19:45:11




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I'm not the conspiracy kind of guy but I noticed that when I bought gas the other day that the fuel coming out was very warm. I know that where I live the below grade soil temp is 66 deg. F.
I bought some lawnmower gas and it was also warm to the touch.
Are the stations heating the fuel under ground? Would the expansion increase their profits while the contraction as it cools have you getting less than you pay for?
Brian

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thejdman01

08-22-2006 17:22:42




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 Re: Buying Warm Gas in reply to Uncle, 08-21-2006 19:45:11  
Not true not true. I forget the exact numbers but land line (a trucking magazine) did an artical 6 or so months ago about truck stops heating fuel up and liek is aid dont reember the exact numbers but it was something like 3 or 4 gallons per 500 and if your selling a couple hundred gallons to every truck and semis all day long it does make a big difference. there was talk of pputting a heat temp guage on the pump and making the meter compensate for it.

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MLP

08-22-2006 13:25:16




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 Re: Buying Warm Gas in reply to Uncle, 08-21-2006 19:45:11  
The Coefficient of Thermal Expansion for gasoline at 20°C is 950 x 10-6. (.00095) per °C. I can not get the supper script to work. 1000GalX.00095=.95Gal/°C.
With out a natural source of heat it would be a losing proposition.



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john *.?-!.* cub owner

08-22-2006 06:22:28




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 Re: Buying Warm Gas in reply to Uncle, 08-21-2006 19:45:11  
In our area it has been so hot for most of the summer that the soil temp is ocnsiderably warmwer than usual for several feet down. If fueling on a cool mornign the fuel stored in uderground tanks can feel warm by comparison.



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Brokenwrench

08-22-2006 05:39:02




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 Re: Buying Warm Gas in reply to Uncle, 08-21-2006 19:45:11  
When I hauled propane (a long time ago), It seemed to me that at the meter there was a diaphram setup. That would keep the meter accurate no matter what the temp was. As close as gas pumps are tested and monitored, I would assume there is also the same sort of thing. I can`t remember the details of how it worked. I just know there was something there that would take care of the expansion to make sure you were truly accurate, no matter the temperature of the propane.

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T_Bone

08-22-2006 10:39:24




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 Re: Buying Warm Gas in reply to Brokenwrench, 08-22-2006 05:39:02  
Hi BW,

It's not the equipment you have to worry about, it's the owner/operator.

I "had" a friend that owned a popular mini-mart, sold about 100,000gal month. When he retired he told he had found a way to set the electronics on the pumps to read 2-10th/gal shy of actual gallons. Since he was a independant the fuel supplier had no indication he was cheating.

When the State inspector came to spot check, all he had to do was to flip one switch and the pumps read correct.

To be able to retire, he had to fire all his help and he and his wife ran the place for two years pumping money back into the books so he could sell the bizz for true face value and not what he was skimming.

Why he ever told me that I'll never know, but that was the last day I ever saw him. He died a year latter on the golf course from a heart attack.

T_Bone

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MarkB_MI

08-22-2006 03:26:29




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 Re: Buying Warm Gas in reply to Uncle, 08-21-2006 19:45:11  
One possibility is that it was a fresh delivery. It would take a long time to cool down 5000 gallons of fuel, if it was at, say 80 degrees when it was delivered.



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TCWINKC

08-21-2006 23:43:25




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 Re: Buying Warm Gas in reply to Uncle, 08-21-2006 19:45:11  
YEARS AGO I WORKED ON A MACHINE THAT HAD STALE FUEL IN IT. INTAKE VALVE WAS COATED WITH THE STICKY SUBSTANCE PREVENTING ITS MOVEMENT. CUSTOMER FELT THIS SHOULD BE COVERED UNDER WARRANTY, STALE FUEL IS NOT. TO PROVE THE EFFECTS AND THE QUALITY OF HIS FUEL I WENT TO AN AMOCO REFINERY TO HAVE THEM TEST. THE CHEMIST TOLD ME MANY THINGS.THIS WAS IN THE 90'S AND HE SAID SHELF LIFE ON FUEL WAS RIGHT AT THIRTY DAYS. THE FUEL LOOSES MOST OF ITS VOLATILITY AT THIS POINT,DUE TO THE CHEMICAL INTERACTION HE STATED IT ALSO CAUSES THAT TYPICAL BAD FUEL SMELL. HE SHOWED ME A WAY TO TEST IF AN ADDITIVE WAS STILL ACTIVE OR NOT. STICK YOUR FINGER IN SOME OF THE FUEL IF IT FEELS HOT IT IS BAD , COLD AND IT IS GOOD. HE TOLD ME TO TELL MY CUSTOMERS TO STAY AWAY FROM LOW VOLUME FUEL STATIONS AS THE FUEL WAS MOST LIKELY TO GO BAD IN THEIR TANKS. HE ALSO DISCUSSED THE EXPANISON OF WATER IN STORAGE TANKS AND THE ABSORPTION,THIS WAS ABOUT THE TIME MOST LOCAL STATIONS WERE REPLACING STEEL TANKS WITH FIBERGLASS COMPOSITE.HE SENT ME A LOT OF PRINTED MATERIAL AND I HAVE MISPLACED. PLEASE DONT HOLD ME ACCOUNTABLE FOR WHAT A CHEMIST OF A FUEL REFINERY SAID, I PERSONALLY SAW NO REASON FOR HIM TO NOT BE HONEST WITH ME.JUST INTERESTING.

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Nephew

08-21-2006 21:30:35




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 Re: Buying Warm Gas in reply to Uncle, 08-21-2006 19:45:11  
Yep, it's a fact. That's exactly why I buy my beer cold and drink it warm, and them fools at Wally World don't even realize it either.
Next time you go to that station, maybe you should take along a stethoscope too so you can check for a heartbeat. Sheesh.



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MD Wa.

08-21-2006 21:22:47




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 Re: Buying Warm Gas in reply to Uncle, 08-21-2006 19:45:11  
Uncle. What part of the county are you in? What is the temp? How far are you from the loading rack? What to the travle time from the loading rack to the station? The station may have just got a delivery and the gas may not have had a change to cool off. Most despenser that I know of are temp corrected to 60 deg. Hope this is of some help. Morgan



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Come on now!

08-21-2006 21:11:59




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 Re: Buying Warm Gas in reply to Uncle, 08-21-2006 19:45:11  
Try this. Fill a beer bottle with water to the point of over flowing. Set it outside in the sun for a couple of hours. Then put it in the ice box (refrigerator) for a couple of hours and see if it's then less than full.



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noncompos

08-21-2006 21:04:35




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 Re: Buying Warm Gas in reply to Uncle, 08-21-2006 19:45:11  
While there would be some expansion, it'd seem it'd be hard to recover the costs of the heating eqpmt and the power necessary...but that still doesn't explain why the fuel was warm. Pumping friction shouldn't warm it appreciably above ground temp...but on the other hand, never thought of any difference when ran gas station, so never checked it. Fascinating question; maybe someone serious can illuminate us on this point.

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37 chief

08-21-2006 21:02:19




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 Re: Buying Warm Gas in reply to Uncle, 08-21-2006 19:45:11  
As things warm up they expan If 1000 gal of gas was warm, I wonder if it expand enough to increase the amount in the tank? So if you got warm gas, when it cooled you may loose some of the amount you received. Makes sence to me. Stan



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the tractor vet

08-21-2006 21:18:07




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 Re: Buying Warm Gas in reply to 37 chief, 08-21-2006 21:02:19  
This was broght up some time back while a couple of us were talken to a fuel tanker driver and he said that on a warm day that if he loads say 8000 gallon of fuel there will be about 50 to 75 gallon of what he called swell so after maken his stops that he could have that much fuel left in the tanker and the meter would show that he had made his deliverys as pre order . He was parken his tanker where we were parken the semi's and the boss was maken sure that the tanker was empty before this guy went to get another load now take this over the course of a 5 or 6 day time frame and that Free fuel would run one of the truck for a couple days and nobody would miss it . Oh BTW he is still parken there and this person is still getting Free fuel .

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Capt.in Kirk

08-21-2006 19:48:23




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 Re: Buying Warm Gas in reply to Uncle, 08-21-2006 19:45:11  
No. Just buy some tin foil next time you get gas.



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