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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

Should be buying Challenger stock!.

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Jonfarmer

09-16-2006 07:23:24




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Yep, Challenger AG eguipment has really been taking off here, the state uses them to mow their roadsides, the farmers have started to buy them, and they are taking off and selling better than the Agco brand tractors that look identical to them. I was trying to figure out why this is?, besides the fact that a very large Caterpillar dealer has been taking them around to all the shows and giving demos, every pull they bring a track tractor to "show off" it's incredible pulling power, they offer them to shows to use them as pull back tractors, scraper tractors and stuff like that, so they are getting lots of good publicity. I don't know if the fact that they have Caterpillar engines in them instead of Agco engines influences sales much, maybe it's the yellow paint instead of the bright orange and the elegant Challenger script on the sides of the hood. Perhaps it's their slogan "We're up to the Challenge" that has a slight influence as well. Anyways, you add it all up and it all comes down to a brand that really seems to be taking off.

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Pitalplace

09-16-2006 15:10:59




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 Re: Should be buying Challenger stock!. in reply to Jonfarmer, 09-16-2006 07:23:24  
I'm not buying stock. Two of my neighbors who farm 20 + pivots each leased the cats this spring and turned them back in. Way to much fuel, to noisy, and both had repair problems.



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Jonfarmer

09-16-2006 17:24:00




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 Re: Should be buying Challenger stock!. in reply to Pitalplace, 09-16-2006 15:10:59  
They are noisy. I watched a MT765B pull last night, which is the 265hp version, the engine was quite noisy and they were pulling it in the 12,000lb class, which was not even breaking a sweat for this tractor, and they had it fully weighted to boot, so we are talking it weighs over 30,000lbs, since a farmer nearby bought that same model and pulls it in the 30,000lb class at the local fair, but he has to strip it down to make it. Anyways, it was a short 250ft track and he wanted to show it off to the crowd, so the salesmen shifted quickly through the gears and I could see he was getting tossed around in the cab quite a bit, it was a rough shifting tractor when you try to shift quick and I think he was also skipping every other gear, and of course it pulled that sled like it was a toy to the other end at road speed. I don't know if perhaps that one has the same feature as the 400 series tractors that he showed me earlier, that has a dial in it so you can adjust the agressivness of the shifting, when I asked why it had this, he said that some people don't want to wait for nice gradual shifts and would rather it be jerky so they could perform the speed or direction change alittle quicker, and he demonstrated that to me. I liked that MT455B, that was a nice 80hp tractor and I could easily see them selling. The thing with the track tractors is they are expensive, and yes they take fuel, but they are very powerful and have incredible pulling power, and when they are working right, you can get a whole lot done in very short time. Tracked vehicles have always had problems and broke down alot, even steel tracked bulldozers need constant work. I'll bet the 900 series wheeled versions of the larger track tractors would be pretty darn reliable, but not quite as good in the mud as the tracked ones.

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barnrat

09-16-2006 13:51:37




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 Re: Should be buying Challenger stock!. in reply to Jonfarmer, 09-16-2006 07:23:24  
Most of the Challenger/Agco tractors are Massey tractors with different paint. Depending on the series most are based off of the 300 series Masseys which was the best selling tractor series in the world.



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Fawteen

09-16-2006 13:20:45




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 Re: Should be buying Challenger stock!. in reply to Jonfarmer, 09-16-2006 07:23:24  
Well, if their ag stuff is of the same quality as their consumer-grade construction stuff, THAT won't last long.

Rental company I useta work for had a Challenger TLB, and it was a total piece of crap. Spent more time in the shop waiting for parts than it did on the job.

Of course, that's a pretty narrow sample, and may have been a lemon.



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steve from mo - dangit!

09-16-2006 07:55:35




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 Try Agco. in reply to Jonfarmer, 09-16-2006 07:23:24  
Sorry, but Agco makes Challenger for Cat dealers to sell. Cat developed the rubber track system in 1987 and then sold the line to Agco. Cat owns Perkins, too, so it"s kind of a shell game.



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Don-Wi

09-16-2006 09:27:23




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 Re: Try Agco. in reply to steve from mo - dangit!, 09-16-2006 07:55:35  
Actually, Oliver/Cletrac developed the rubber track on the OC-3 crawler. Didn't hold up because of a lack of good quality rubber to make the tracks out of, but Oliver was the first...

Donovan from Wisconsin



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Jonfarmer

09-16-2006 10:32:20




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 Re: Try Agco. in reply to Don-Wi, 09-16-2006 09:27:23  
I think the new line of wheeled articulators they came out with last year was mostly Agco's doing, since they have bought out brands that had articulates, and even offered some for awhile, the "Agcostar" line. Cat wanted to build articulators, but I guess couldn't design one that they felt they could market because they never did. I am not so sure the new track tractors sold today are all that trouble free, just the couple of track tractors that have sold around here have had track troubles, troubles with the track tensioners I guess, and they seem to always fail when they're right in the mud somewheres. One of the locals bought the 400hp version and had to bring an excavator up to pick up 1 side of the machine out of the mud, so he could fix the track. The other fellow had troubles with the track tensioner one 1 side when he was planting corn on my uncles farm, when it failed, it was quite wet where he was and he had an awful hard time to get off the field with 1 track not working. They are still incredible machines when they work right!.

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Jonfarmer

09-16-2006 08:06:25




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 Re: Try Agco. in reply to steve from mo - dangit!, 09-16-2006 07:55:35  
Right, I knew all that, but still, this Challenger brand is outselling their own Agco brand of tractors even though they are darn near identical with the exception of just the engines on the wheeled tractors. I guess you would have to buy Agco stock, but then, Caterpillar is supplying parts and engines.



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edchainsaw

09-16-2006 19:30:42




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 Re: Try Agco. in reply to Jonfarmer, 09-16-2006 08:06:25  
I was privialged to be taken by our dealer (great dealer--one of the top 10 salesmen in the usa) to the St Louis release of the new combines and new updates on tractors ...

We had purchased a "new" AGCO corp produced---I cant say it in mixed company---- and am still not happy with the thing from what I was shown it was only going to get worse If we had not had 2 masseys that we traded for this one... and couldnt trade them to any other dealer we would not have it or another... sorry but these have turned a former loyal MF owner against them.... and it aint just a lemmon its a lot of "JUNK" with it....

and the CHALLENGER, AGCO, Massy, Fendt are ALL almost alike in the areas of where the problems I have are--- the motors are BOTH GREAT.

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