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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

A wheel by any other name

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jc

10-16-2006 12:28:14




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Is harmonic balancer a fancy name for flywheel?




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KEB

10-16-2006 20:29:27




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 Re: A wheel by any other name in reply to jc, 10-16-2006 12:28:14  
To add to what janicholson said, its called a harmonic balancer because it "balances" (damps, actually) vibrations at some multiple, or "harmonic", of the rotational speed. For example, in a V8 engine there are four power strokes per revolution, which means the cranshift gets a large twisting pulse applied to it four times per revolution at four different points along its length. These pulses cause a torsional (or twisting) vibration of the crankshaft, at four times the rotational speed of the engine. Don't know for sure, but suspect at certain speeds the crankshaft could be mechanically resonant and have torsional vibrations at higher multiples, such as 8, 12, 16 etc., times the rotational speed.

Keith

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krue

10-16-2006 20:05:18




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 Re: A wheel by any other name in reply to jc, 10-16-2006 12:28:14  
Actually on an automatic equipped vehicle the torque convertor is bolted to a "flex plate" instead of a fly wheel.



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KEB

10-16-2006 20:34:58




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 Re: A wheel by any other name in reply to krue, 10-16-2006 20:05:18  
In a vehicle with an automatic transmission, the rotating mass of the torque converter serves the purpose of a flywheel. A flex plate is way too light to have enough rotational inertia to work as a flywheel, and serves only to connect the crank shaft to the torque converter (and maybe help isolate vibration, not sure about that).

Keith



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ken in texas

10-16-2006 17:23:40




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 Re: A wheel by any other name in reply to jc, 10-16-2006 12:28:14  
I think most everyone realizes that one or more pulleys attach to the front of the harmonic balancer.



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shinnery

10-17-2006 00:49:56




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 Re: A wheel by any other name in reply to ken in texas, 10-16-2006 17:23:40  
On some modern engines (serpentine belts) the ballancer is the belt pulley also. That's the way my Dodge V10 is.
Bryce



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Glen in TX

10-16-2006 16:36:26




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 Re: A wheel by any other name in reply to jc, 10-16-2006 12:28:14  
Harmonic balancer is on front end of engine and flywheel is on drive end. Some engines are balanced internally and some externally. Those balanced internally like for example a ole 350 Chevy use a different front harmonic balancer and a flexplate flywheel with no balancer weights hooked on a automatic trans compared to a similar small block Chevy 400 that is externally balanced using a different balancer on front and flexplate flywheel on drive end that would be balanced with weights on it. Making any sense?

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Leroy

10-17-2006 18:08:54




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 Re: A wheel by any other name in reply to Glen in TX, 10-16-2006 16:36:26  
A Chevy 350 in a 74 truck with automatic. Would it have a harmonic balancer on the front end? Not long after a transmission change it started shaking at idle heavy, garages seem to have no idea what is causing it. Thought it was engine miss but that has been rulled out.



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Janicholson

10-16-2006 12:47:42




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 Re: A wheel by any other name in reply to jc, 10-16-2006 12:28:14  
yes and no... It is a flywheel in miniature, as all rotating mass is a flywheel of sorts.
The Harmonic ballancer is a vibration dampener. For the same reason that touching a tuning fork with your finger stops its tone, a harmonic ballancer will deaden the tortional vibrations of a crankshaft. There are two primary types, both work in a similar way. A outer rim of steel or cast iron is bonded (vulcanized) to a synthetic rubber sleeve in its I.D. This is inturn bonded on its I.D. to a hub that is pressed or fastened to the crank snout. A special durometer (flexibility measurment) index is used for each engine/application that a company produces. As an engine runs, the crankshaft sets up vibrations that are along its length (like winding up a torsion bar front spring. as this windup relaxes and goes winding the other way, the stresses it creats can snap a crank into pieces. The dampner is designed to absorb these forces so that the shaft runs without the destructive winding. Some of the dampners also include an off set weight that is a part of the counterbalance of the crankshaft. These must be set indexed to the crank to avoid massive vibration. Most dampners fail by having the rubberish material become detached from the hub, or mini flywheel. Some of teh newer wheels have a fluidic dampner inside and are more complex. There you have it. JimN

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mjbrown

10-16-2006 13:09:57




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 Re: A wheel by any other name in reply to Janicholson, 10-16-2006 12:47:42  
Excellent explanation. Similarly (I think) wood propellors damp the vibration of an aircraft engine better than aluminum props.



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Janicholson

10-16-2006 13:10:56




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 Re: A wheel by any other name in reply to mjbrown, 10-16-2006 13:09:57  
You Bet... JimN



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rgvtx

10-16-2006 13:06:46




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 Re: A wheel by any other name in reply to Janicholson, 10-16-2006 12:47:42  
WOW!!! Jim, that has got to be the most complete and correct answer I have seen for a question in years. Possibly a little too detailed for some, but 100% accurate and well written. Good work!



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Patchfarmer

10-16-2006 12:55:54




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 Re: A wheel by any other name in reply to Janicholson, 10-16-2006 12:47:42  
One is in on the front and the other is at the rear.



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JT

10-16-2006 12:33:01




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 Re: A wheel by any other name in reply to jc, 10-16-2006 12:28:14  
No, the flywheel is on the drive end of an engine, the clutch in a manual tranny is mounted to the flywheel or the torque converter for a auto tranny is bolt to it, the balancer is on the front of the engine and is to take out the harmonic (minor inbalances in the totating assembly) vibration so an engine does not vibrate it self to peices at higher RPM.



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homemaid

10-16-2006 12:32:30




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 Re: A wheel by any other name in reply to jc, 10-16-2006 12:28:14  
My husband said it is not the same. It is a pulley on the front of the crank shaft.



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