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o/t cattle prices dropping?

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john deere plow

10-21-2006 19:32:49




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cow & feeder calves both have dropped in prices the last 2 weeks in a row. Is the price of corn the reason? In east tenn. Might be better prices elsewhere.




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shawnspeed3

10-22-2006 07:55:53




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 Re: o/t cattle prices dropping? in reply to john deere plowboy, 10-21-2006 19:32:49  
not a factor yet....but a local (mid michigan) farmer informed me that the large feedlot producers are now impanting embrios in hefers on their lots with twins and c-sectioning at calving time, finishing momma out at 24 mo. instead of 18, and are not dependant on cow /calf operators or the flucatuation of supply /demand. sorta like they did with the hog/poultry markets. goes back to grow what you feed, feed what ya' grow, and direct market everything you can...

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kyhayman

10-22-2006 05:38:24




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 Re: o/t cattle prices dropping? in reply to john deere plowboy, 10-21-2006 19:32:49  
At least 4 factors in play on the market.

1. Seasonal price decline. Supply of cows and calves on the market is higher in the fall as opposed to spring and demand is higher in the spring than in the fall.

2. Lots of extra cattle hitting the market out of drought affected areas of the US. These are the same areas that are net importers of stocker cattle out eastern cow states like KY and TN.

3. Corn price, as the price of corn goes up, the price of cattle goes down

4. Cow price cycle. We are in the expansion side of the normal price cycle of the cattle industry and are looking at several years of declining prices until herd expansion reverses.

I would argue a 5th indicator. The futures markets are looking much more bearish with the decline in energy prices and the economy beginning to slow. Stocks are up, and thats pulling cash out of the long side futures markets. Plus with corn so bullish in the next 2 years due to ethanol demand. I dont see anything pulling money into cattle futures and everything saying pull money out of cattle futures.

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Allan In NE

10-22-2006 05:19:42




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 Re: o/t cattle prices dropping? in reply to john deere plowboy, 10-21-2006 19:32:49  
There's an old saying: Raise what ya feed and feed what ya raise.

In other words, if possible, straddle both sides of the street.

Allan



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hogman_2002

10-21-2006 19:44:48




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 Re: o/t cattle prices dropping? in reply to john deere plowboy, 10-21-2006 19:32:49  
When grain prices go up cattle go down. When cattle prices go up grain goes down. The cowboys have had it pretty good the last few years but it looks like that might change. So maybe the farmers can make a little before the cycle changes.



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Nebraska Cowman

10-22-2006 04:26:11




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 Re: o/t cattle prices dropping? in reply to hogman_2002, 10-21-2006 19:44:48  
Yes, prices are dropping. Corn is up and the feeders have to compensate. Cattlemen have been able to make a small profit for a few years now and we will weather the drop without government assistance thankyou. An no, I don't have to go to the FSA office to ask permission to sell my calves.



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Hard Knocks

10-22-2006 05:57:19




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 Re: o/t cattle prices dropping? in reply to Nebraska Cowman, 10-22-2006 04:26:11  
I'm with you Neb.Cattleman,NOTHING is worse than a gov't bureaucrat dictating what I'm going to do on my farm.Freedom beats gov't $$$ every time.



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massey333

10-22-2006 05:47:53




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 Re: o/t cattle prices dropping? in reply to Nebraska Cowman, 10-22-2006 04:26:11  
I must be naive,please explain the FSA-Gov.remarks.



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kyhayman

10-22-2006 08:32:17




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 Re: o/t cattle prices dropping? in reply to massey333, 10-22-2006 05:47:53  
With any of the grains, One day they will be gone, or changed and me haingit pays to check with FSA on a daily basis to see if their is a loan deficiency payment to be had by selling on say Wed instead of Tuesday.

Theres money to be made using the programs to your advantage (I've seen LDP's vary a nickle a day on wheat silage). I dont like farming the programs, something just feels dirty about it, but as long as they are in place I'd be a fool not to particpate.

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massey333

10-22-2006 09:45:15




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 Re: o/t cattle prices dropping? in reply to kyhayman, 10-22-2006 08:32:17  
I knew what he was implying,but you don't sell anything with LDPs and FSA don't care what you do with it later.The Livestock people do the most crying every time there is a drought demanding Help for their grasses,so the Pot can't be calling the Kettle black too often.



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Nebraska Cowman

10-22-2006 13:05:29




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 Re: o/t cattle prices dropping? in reply to massey333, 10-22-2006 09:45:15  
I know what you are saying but you won't hear me begging the government for help. I say let the poor managers fail. I'l ride this one out. I remember just a few years ago selling calves for 60¢ and borrowing money for winter feed. I'm bettin' the ranch and the brand I can do it again.



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SandhillRancher

10-22-2006 17:30:23




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 Re: o/t cattle prices dropping? in reply to Nebraska Cowman, 10-22-2006 13:05:29  
Well said Cowman!



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TomH in PA

10-22-2006 06:07:23




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 Re: o/t cattle prices dropping? in reply to massey333, 10-22-2006 05:47:53  
I assume he's talking about Loan Deficiency Payments



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MikeinKy

10-22-2006 07:57:56




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 Re: o/t cattle prices dropping? in reply to TomH in PA, 10-22-2006 06:07:23  
Allen has a good point. I keep my heifers and raise my own corn and hay. It is a slow way to expand a herd, but it's affordable and I know what I have. Gotta buy a bull once in a while. But knowing what goes into my feeders, (I feed them out too) The local meat markets will pay a premium when I have some to sell. I don't add any meal or antibiotics to the feed.



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