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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

Hydraulics: Question 2

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Allan In NE

10-31-2006 16:39:44




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Tractor is a Hydro 70 with what I think is a 12 gpm pump.

Would the remotes on that rascal run that loader?

Allan




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Ed1

11-02-2006 10:01:24




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 Re: Hydraulics: Question 2 in reply to Allan In NE, 10-31-2006 16:39:44  
I thought the IH's were faster then 12 gpm.



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RodInNS

11-01-2006 06:49:42




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 Re: Hydraulics: Question 2 in reply to Allan In NE, 10-31-2006 16:39:44  
Hi Allan,

Dunno bout everyone else, but I cringe when I think of running a loader with less than 15 gpm... but I am rather impatient. I guess 12 wouldn't be too bad.
However, I think Don is onto something down there. A fella such as yourself could easily mount that valve somewhere handy, and then turn the levers around, or mabey make up some extensions for the levers. I've got a couple around here with pieces welded to them, or bent around to fit something. I'm sure you'll figure something out. Good luck.

Rod

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Jon Hagen

10-31-2006 22:42:25




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 Re: Hydraulics: Question 2 in reply to Allan In NE, 10-31-2006 16:39:44  
I run the loader off the remotes on my 1950T Oliver,but it,s pretty slow reacting. Remember that the steering priority flow divider valve will steal 2-3 gpm from your pump capacity,If it is using one pump for all hyd duty.



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jhill52

10-31-2006 20:21:18




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 Re: Hydraulics: Question 2 in reply to Allan In NE, 10-31-2006 16:39:44  
The tractor pump would run the loader but it would be slower and I would be worried about the tractors sump capacity. Those cylinders hold a lot of oil at full extension. Get a 3 cylinder valve mount it to the back of the cab and then run rods to 3 levers mounted next to the seat. They will run single or 2 way cylinders. The return to the sump comes from the valve. Should be easy to fabricate.



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jhill52

10-31-2006 20:35:12




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 Re: Hydraulics: Question 2 in reply to jhill52, 10-31-2006 20:21:18  
After thinking about this for a minute how about using the 2 tractor remotes to run the bucket and the grapple. Then use the PTO pump to run the lift cylinders. You would only need one additional valve to run the the lift and it should be easy to run a single rod into the cab to a lever mounted next to the seat.



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Gerald J.

10-31-2006 18:20:47




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 Re: Hydraulics: Question 2 in reply to Allan In NE, 10-31-2006 16:39:44  
Depends on the bore of the cylinders and their stroke. I've found on my loader with 2.5" cylinders that 5 gpm is plenty fast. I know JD specifications for setting the flow on the older 4020 valves sets to 5 gpm so that a 3 x 8 cylinder takes 5 seconds for a stroke. Making that cylinder stroke much faster means the ends get bumped hard because the operator can't respond fast enough. And after enough hard bumps the ends fall off they cylinder. I replumbed my loader once with a 5 gpm pump and it was plenty fast, most of the time I kept the engine (crankshaft driven pump) slowed down to keep the loader more under control. When I mounted that loader on my 4020, I included a micrometer flow control valve in the pressure line to do that flow restriction from where I'd tapped the main pressure line.

So you can figure the flow you need based on the bore diameter and stroke of the cyinder and how fast you want that stroke to be, allowing a second or two for your reaction time at the end of the stroke. Too fast a stroke lifts the tractor off the ground shoving the loader around.

Gerald J.

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RAW in IA

10-31-2006 16:52:03




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 Re: Hydraulics: Question 2 in reply to Allan In NE, 10-31-2006 16:39:44  
I would think it would run it, but will be slower than the loader pump. sepends how fast you wantit to be. Might be worth hooking up some hoses and giving it a try.



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J Schwiebert

10-31-2006 16:46:47




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 Re: Hydraulics: Question 2 in reply to Allan In NE, 10-31-2006 16:39:44  
Do you know the GPM of your loader pump? Also remember all pumps are rated on theoretical displacement.Use 85% of theoretic then do the math: What diameter and length of stroke cylinders do you have? J.



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Roger in Iowa

10-31-2006 16:43:24




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 Re: Hydraulics: Question 2 in reply to Allan In NE, 10-31-2006 16:39:44  
Do you know what the gpm of the loader pump is/was?

Tractor hydraulics might be faster/slower depending on how the outputs compare.

Could get rid of one system.

Roger in Iowa



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Allan In NE

10-31-2006 16:48:36




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 Re: Hydraulics: Question 2 in reply to Roger in Iowa, 10-31-2006 16:43:24  
Yeah,

The PTO pump is something on the order of 21 gpm. Loader has three inch lift cylinders and it is fast.

That's why I've been fightin' the change-over so hard. It really works sweet the way it is, but short of yanking that cab off again, I've got to do something. :>(

Allan



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135 Fan

10-31-2006 17:10:59




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 Re: Hydraulics: Question 2 in reply to Allan In NE, 10-31-2006 16:48:36  
As long as you have the right pressure it should work but will be slower. I assume both are open center center hydraulics. I'd worry about if you had enough oil left to lube the tranny when the loader is up. Those cylinders are pretty long. Just a thought. If you are worried about a hose blowing on a valve in the cab, put some 4 wire hoses on. They're good for over 4000 psi and hoses have a 3 to 1 safety factor. You can also buy sleeves that go over the hose to stop abrasion and contain any leaks. Hope this helps. Dave

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R. John Johnson

10-31-2006 17:05:15




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 Re: Hydraulics: Question 2 in reply to Allan In NE, 10-31-2006 16:48:36  
Allan

Another poster got me thinking. What about keeping the existing valve and hooking up a joystick inside the cab. There is a company called Tuthill that makes joysticks and cables. Maybe they might be able to help.

Link

John



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Allan In NE

10-31-2006 17:12:44




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 Re: Hydraulics: Question 2 in reply to R. John Johnson, 10-31-2006 17:05:15  
Well,


The boys in town use a three spool valve, mount the thing outside the cab bolted on or under the fender. They bolt it up in such a way that the only part that is "inside" is the handles poking thru small holes drilled in the wall of the cab.

Looks great to me, but they are dealing with all two-way cylinders too. :>(

Allan



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Don-Wi

10-31-2006 22:02:21




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 Re: Hydraulics: Question 2 in reply to Allan In NE, 10-31-2006 17:12:44  
Ya know, I don't think that'd be all that hard to hook up. I do beleive the cross control on our loader can have the levers mounted either way.

Put 'em on "upside down" and put a hole through the side of the cab, or wherever you want to mount them, big enough for the levers to stick through and close enough to reach. Bolt it on form the out side and use a peice of inner tube if you wanna make a boot for the levers.

Donovan from Wisconsin

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R. John Johnson

10-31-2006 17:44:35




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 Re: Hydraulics: Question 2 in reply to Allan In NE, 10-31-2006 17:12:44  
Allan

That still might work for you. Look into a sectional valve. Get a 3 section one. first and second sections single acting, 3rd section double acting. Mount so handles come up like you said. Valve would not be "off the shelf", but the sections should be a standard item.

John



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RodInNS

10-31-2006 20:16:06




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 Re: Hydraulics: Question 2 in reply to R. John Johnson, 10-31-2006 17:44:35  
Could also go with 4 position "float" spools rather than single acting if they were more available, or cheaper....

Rod



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