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Voulintary farm registration

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Shawnspeed3

11-01-2006 09:21:34




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Have any of you livestock farmers been signing up for the Voulintary NAIS program(National Animal Identification Program)???The wife and I attended a local town hall type meeting on it this weekend,and listened to a speaker that wrote a book on the subject to help farmers understand NAIS.It was very enlightning, the biggest suprise was that by volinteering you are entering into a contract that is not LAW, and barrs you from suing,barrs you from opting out, ect. ect.It also assigns a tracking number to YOUR property that is not public record,but stays with the property forever...the speaker reffered to it as sort of a un-recorded easment.....Sounds dangerous to me...Just was wondering what was happeming in other areas...Shawn

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johndeere plowboy

11-02-2006 09:05:07




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 Re: Voulintary farm registration in reply to Shawnspeed3, 11-01-2006 09:21:34  
Is 2009 the manatory date for signing up? I haven"t signing up myself, I am thinking of cutting herd down to just a few cows and converting pasture to hay ground and stop raising cattle. A lot of farmers close to retirement age are going to quit when it becomes manatory. Not worth the hassle.Too much goverment control. just my 2 cents.



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hay

11-02-2006 03:41:47




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 Re: Voulintary farm registration in reply to Shawnspeed3, 11-01-2006 09:21:34  
i think that eventually the whole NAIS program is about money. just think of all the "mandatory" registration and then the gov't knows who we are and how much livestock is owned by us and it would be a great scource of taxation. not only for the feds, but also for individual states and counties and cities. just more government tracking of individuals. next they will probably register all grain farmers and veggie farmers and hay producers. great scources of taxation. just remember:"I'm here from your government and i'm here to help you!"

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paul

11-01-2006 22:44:59




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 Re: Voulintary farm registration in reply to Shawnspeed3, 11-01-2006 09:21:34  
How about the dust regulations the EPA is bringing out? They dropped the ag exception, but will write some sort of letter that it doesn't apply to ag. Maybe.

What about the elevators, or coops, or such, that are located in a village? What about farmer's markets? This anti-dust thing is pretty far-reaching.

--->Paul



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sammy the RED

11-01-2006 20:37:22




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 Re: Voulintary farm registration in reply to Shawnspeed3, 11-01-2006 09:21:34  
third party image

;o]

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Davis In SC

11-01-2006 19:44:25




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 Re: Voulintary farm registration in reply to Shawnspeed3, 11-01-2006 09:21:34  
It seems odd to me, that the govt is more worried about tracking a chicken, than an illegal immigrant or a a terrorist...



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I was Remus

11-01-2006 17:15:19




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 Re: Voulintary farm registration in reply to Shawnspeed3, 11-01-2006 09:21:34  
Go to Advantage Cattle Services message board, under general information, on page 2 is an article on NAIS

Larry



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shawnspeed3

11-01-2006 17:00:05




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 Re: Voulintary farm registration in reply to Shawnspeed3, 11-01-2006 09:21:34  
Thanks for the comments, I don't feel so alone now...I am not against tracking animal moovements through stockyard/auction houses, which is already done in most places. But why do I need to tag animals for my own consumption,and my direct to consumer freezer beef/pork/poultry buissness? I have immidiate traceback, my customers know where the animal is grown, how it is grown and can come out and tour/ inspect my farm at any time. The butchers we use also know the customers and are very good about making sure they stay happy( Cleanlyness, and cutting suggestions).Also most of the desease in this country is IMPORTED. the need of stricter importation rules needs to be pushed. another speaker at the town hall was a retired vetrinary professer from Uof M that is also a animal pathologist that was talking about how Bovine TB Will not be any easier to control with NAIS...In fact he spoke criticly of the michigan policy of depopulating a farm that have one cow test positive or (reactor) to a tb test with no further testing of the herd..all the rest are guilty by association. Part of the NAIS has a statement about" depopulation without compinsation"I don't know about the rest of you , but that sounds a little like unreasonable search and sizure of my personal property..which is one of the reasons I belive the program went from manditory to volintary...because as a voulintary program(contract) you cannot appeal it to the supreme court, and it has no congressional oversite. Just a few things to ponder, and if you don't like the program please spred the word to your neghbors and friends and write your elected officials and let them know where you stand,and be persistant, if you like the program then go for it, but do not force it on the rest of us who don't want or need it. just my 2c ..Thanks again shawn

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jeremy in NE

11-01-2006 16:23:11




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 Re: Voulintary farm registration in reply to Shawnspeed3, 11-01-2006 09:21:34  
Maybe its just me but this has something hidden that nobody realizes yet. First off it gives them a definite amount of animals that will be marketed. What do you suppose will happen with that information? Secondly why get so in depth, when all they would have to do is assign a producer there own number not each animal. The producers know where there animals have been, so if disease is the problem it could be limited to an area which is no different than if an animal was tagged and got a disesse. either way all animals in that area will be tested or killed. if they are so worried about disease why not make it mandatory to test all animals before slaughtering. They are traceble from that point.I just dont understand what you would gain by doing this. If theres an outbreak its TOO late. Maybe instead of waiting for them to get sick then figuring out what to do we should try Preventative solutions. Test all animals coming across the border because that seems to be the weak spots. Sorry for the rant but big brother is getting involved in too much, Ive been trying hard but cannot think of one good thing that has come out of the government getting involved.

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R. Freshour

11-01-2006 15:57:06




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 Re: Voulintary farm registration in reply to Shawnspeed3, 11-01-2006 09:21:34  
I work on a 300 sow farrow to finish operation in Indiana. In the case of the hogs you just have to trade numbers for each farm not for each animal. When we get replacement gilts we have to give the supplier are number and vice versa. When we sell to the packer they already have our number and apply it to that load of hogs.



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Tom in TN

11-01-2006 15:19:23




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 Re: Voulintary farm registration in reply to Shawnspeed3, 11-01-2006 09:21:34  
Shawn,

I raise cattle and horses in Middle Tennessee. I have not yet signed up, but it is going to be mandatory eventually. My biggest concern right now is that they are calling for radio-
frequency ID tags in the animals. When I take an animal off my farm, or when someone else brings an animal onto my farm, I will be required to log that movement with USDA via the internet. However, to do that, I have to be able to read the code off the radio-frequency ID tag on the animal. That code is not the same as the Premises ID code that is assigned to the farm where the animal resides. It is a different code, one that the farmer who puts the RFID tag into the animal doesn't know unless he has a reader to read it when he puts the tag into the animal. Currently, that RFID reader costs about $700.00.

I'm hoping that USDA will come up with a more affordable alternative.

Tom in TN

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hayray

11-01-2006 22:51:24




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 Re: Voulintary farm registration in reply to Tom in TN, 11-01-2006 15:19:23  
That is not true, the RFID tag is a little round tag with numbers clearly printed on the both sides. I am already using them.



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Dachshund

11-01-2006 15:13:04




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 Re: Voulintary farm registration in reply to Shawnspeed3, 11-01-2006 09:21:34  
Goat producers have been doing this for years. With goats/sheep it's called the Scrapies Program. Not heard of any "fallout" from it. I talked to the State of Nebraska Veteranarians office and was told that each state will vary a little bit, but has national guidelines to follow.



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dhermesc

11-01-2006 15:02:52




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 Re: Voulintary farm registration in reply to Shawnspeed3, 11-01-2006 09:21:34  
I'll do it as soon as they do the same with the wetbacks coming into the country.



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Sam (MO)

11-01-2006 12:51:46




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 Re: Voulintary farm registration in reply to Shawnspeed3, 11-01-2006 09:21:34  
There is no way in he** I'm gonna sign up. I have been looking into this. IF me and the wife go 2-3 trail ride I need to let the USDA know this. Bunk I say. there's a old lady late 70's she has two mules, chickens, duck, and three turkeys. Now she will have to register with the USDA and she not even a producer. So what will the fines be for not compling? It could take food off peoples plate. The USDA wants to track where the animal has been. isn't that past tenths? all animals get sick so a trip to the vat I goota tell USDA. Heck they might as well put a bar code on my behind.

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oldsterGA

11-01-2006 12:31:21




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 Re: Voulintary farm registration in reply to Shawnspeed3, 11-01-2006 09:21:34  
I am not a producing farmer so this message has no "agenda" with it at all. Anyone that believes that our government has any one's welfare at heart except their own, needs to pull their head out of the sand. Perhaps the "volunteer" part of the program will turn into "mandatory" fairly soon or it may take awhile, but why anyone would be foolish enough to believe that the US Government, no matter which political party is in control, cares about the "little guy" and would voluntarily put their head in the government's noose is beyond my limited understanding.

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Nolan

11-01-2006 11:21:39




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 Re: Voulintary farm registration in reply to Shawnspeed3, 11-01-2006 09:21:34  
I didn't sign up, I was signed up. It was a simple matter for my state ag agency to take my egg producer licence and my apiary registration and transfer all that over to NAIS. And being helpfull folk, they didn't see the need to trouble me with the question of if I wanted in or not.

So far, there's been no fallout from NAIS here. But that will come. Perhaps soon, perhaps not for a long time, but it will come.

As written now, it will force me out of business eventually due to the recordkeeping requirements I am expected to comply with. The recordkeeping is almost as bad as being certified organic.

In the vague "think of the children" aspects of safety, NAIS is a good think. I could help contain and control a serious disease outbreak. But I have total faith in my governments ability to abuse such knowledge and power.

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Shawnspeed3

11-01-2006 11:16:28




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 Re: Voulintary farm registration in reply to Shawnspeed3, 11-01-2006 09:21:34  
Bruno Schmitt, farmers guide to NAIS....no affiliation. The part that scares me is you wave alot of your constitutional rights when you enter this contract and have no one to appeal them to because you VOLINTEERED...No Congressional review or oversite, also your personal information is not protected because all the records are not exemt from the freedom of information act....also not one piece of medical information is attached to that number exept born on /harvested on dates....no vaccination records or anything else medicly related. Shawn

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WyoDave

11-01-2006 10:45:28




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 Re: Voulintary farm registration in reply to Shawnspeed3, 11-01-2006 09:21:34  
When I renewed one of my brands a couple months ago there was a box to check for the state to issue me a farm number. That was all there was too it here. I'm not concerned.
David



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kyhayman

11-01-2006 10:36:24




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 Re: Voulintary farm registration in reply to Shawnspeed3, 11-01-2006 09:21:34  
I registered, its voluntary now but the day is fast approaching when it will be required to have to market livestock. I'm a devout liberatarian, but this is about protecting our industry. If we have an outbreak of mad cow, our customers demand to know where that animal has been. If we get hoof and mouth loose here, we nave to be able to contain an stop the disease.

Its all about professionalism. We in animal agriculture are part of the industry of meat production. That cow isnt just your source of income, its someone elses food. No farm is an island. For example, this week, my neighbor who runs his bull year round with his cows had his bull come visiting. He just has a few cows, and does have a decent bull but now I get calves coming at the wrong time of the year (and with me laid up for the next 2 months its not like I can get him out). Plus everything his cows are exposed to mine are exposed to. Maybe if we get with national tracking and id we can get the people who still want to manage there cattle like it was the 1950's to get with the program or get out. It took farm id tracking, ear tagging and monitoring, and mandatory vaccination to eradicate brucellosis back in the 80's but we did it. Would have happened sooner if everyone got with the program. As it was, it took 10 extra years and cost us all a lot of money to do it.

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hayray

11-01-2006 23:13:43




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 Re: Voulintary farm registration in reply to kyhayman, 11-01-2006 10:36:24  
I know what you are saying, I am a card carrying Libertarian, but I agree we need this. At one of the meetings we had last year a USDA vet gave a slide presentation of the foot and mouth disease outbreak in England, it was devistating, costing the country just millions if not more. His forecast was that someday we will have a serious out break like foot and mouth disease and that would put us all out of business, so we will need to be able to track sources of disease. Plus everybody, most countries will not by our beef beef unless it is source verified.

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kyhayman

11-02-2006 02:24:44




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 Re: Voulintary farm registration in reply to hayray, 11-01-2006 23:13:43  
I'm glad someone agrees with me on this. To me it seems so simple, it would suit me if everything could be source verified, right down to individual apples and stuff. I had ecoli, from spinach. Maybe, if everyone knew that everything they sold was traceable people as a whole would be more careful.

Nothing about it scares me. I produce the best beef I can, in conditions where I try to follow labels and best practices, even when it costs me money. My genetics are top of the line cross breds focused on what the market requests. If my steaks are tough, I want to know, and do better. It seems like most of the people opposing this want to hide something, comingle what they produce inside a long chain of 'buyer beware'. Im kind of tired of subsidizing that. Since 1995 I've been in an electronic id, source verified program which includes carcass tracking. Getting a premisis ID was part of the deal for me. Its been worthwhile, at least a 10 dollar per cwt premium and I normally get an exta hundred pounds or so to sell.

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hayray

11-02-2006 04:34:51




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 Re: Voulintary farm registration in reply to kyhayman, 11-02-2006 02:24:44  
That is another side of the story about the producers that want to "comingle in a market of buyer beware - Beef has lost some ground in years because of the separation between producer and consumer.



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Midwest redneck

11-01-2006 14:15:11




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 Re: Voulintary farm registration in reply to kyhayman, 11-01-2006 10:36:24  
I understand what your saying, but it all comes down to big brother has to watch out for us...after there is an outbreak of mad cow or whatever. Remember the spinach thing a few weeks ago, a bunch of people were already sick by the time they realized what it was and a public health bulletin went out all over the USA. Where does it stop...will apple growers have to ID all apples because a bad worm got in an apple, or maybe the bananas arent ripe enough etc. Big brother doesnt need to tell farmers how to run their business.

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Harley

11-01-2006 09:49:47




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 Re: Voulintary farm registration in reply to Shawnspeed3, 11-01-2006 09:21:34  
All it amounts to is another way for big brother to be able to watch over everything, and I mean everything we do with our critters.



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Farmer in the Dells (WI)

11-01-2006 09:57:59




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 Re: Voulintary farm registration in reply to Harley, 11-01-2006 09:49:47  
Or even being able to track source herds when a disease is discovered. There are some committee papers available on the web but they are very large files and more than a year old. Do you remember the speaker's name or the title of his book?



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