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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

Voltmeter or Ammeter

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Aaron Ford

12-17-2006 18:27:09




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I am replacing the gauges in my MF65 with quality aftermarket peices. I am switching to an alternator and an electric tach. So here is the question, which would be preferred, a 60 amp ammeter or a voltmeter. Voltmeter is $12 more, but I don't mind if there is a good reason to switch. Whad'ya think?

Let's go Mountaineers,

Aaron




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Aaron Ford

12-18-2006 13:51:48




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 Thanks Everyone-Voltmeter or Ammeter in reply to Aaron Ford, 12-17-2006 18:27:09  
I am going to go wiht the majority here and get the ammeter. I will have to learn to read it, but it should not be a problem. I will take Hal's advise and size my alternator accordingly so I do not fry a new VDO or worse burn down my money pit.... It is going to be a total rewire so all options are open at this point. Thanks again.

Let's go Mountaineers,

Aaron



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noncompos

12-18-2006 10:04:29




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 Re: Voltmeter or Ammeter in reply to Aaron Ford, 12-17-2006 18:27:09  
FWIW, I feel an ammeter is better because I can see exactly how the system is working every time I glance at it: charging, discharging, normal trickle. It shows any variation in charging after starting or sitting in traffic with lights and heater and radio on(gen/alt weakening? starter consuming more power than usual?) and alerts me to beginning problems. It may well be that a voltmeter does the same and I"m just unfamiliar with them, but to me they"re a lot like an idiot oil light: you"ve got enough pressure to turn the light off, or you don"t have any. I want to see my oil pressure every day, every time I glance at it, to see if it"s normal or declining or acting odd.

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souNdguy

12-18-2006 06:48:31




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 Re: Voltmeter or Ammeter in reply to Aaron Ford, 12-17-2006 18:27:09  
If I had to choose just 1 gauge.. I'd go with an ammeter.. If I had room.. I'd get both, if I was on 12v.

The ammeter.. IMHO.. shows you more about the charge system than a volt meter.

I agree with the other poster that said you should not leave the voltmeter hooked up full time.. just power it from the switched side of the ignition switch.


Soundguy



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MarkB_MI

12-18-2006 03:19:13




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 Re: Voltmeter or Ammeter in reply to Aaron Ford, 12-17-2006 18:27:09  
In general, a voltmeter is easier to install, particularly if you've got to do some rewiring anyway. One small gauge wire from the battery to the meter, versus a heavy-gauge wire that must go from the alternator to the dash to the battery.

I'm a bit surprised that the voltmeter is more expensive, since there's more stuff in an ammeter. I always figured that car manufacturers switched to voltmeters to save money.

I developed a preference for voltmeters a long time ago, since they are straightforward to read: Over 14 volts and the alternator is good, under 13 volts and the alternator is bad. With an ammeter, it's sometimes hard to tell if the battery is charging or discharging,

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Bus Driver

12-18-2006 04:13:19




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 Re: Voltmeter or Ammeter in reply to MarkB_MI, 12-18-2006 03:19:13  
The voltmeter must be wired through a switch for disconnection any time the vehicle is not running. Otherwise, it will slowly discharge the battery. One of the important things about either type meter is that the operator know the meaning of the readings presented by the meter.



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Don-Wi

12-17-2006 21:48:02




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 Re: Voltmeter or Ammeter in reply to Aaron Ford, 12-17-2006 18:27:09  
I'm with Gerald. Go with the ammeter. if the voltage meter were so much better, newer tractors with alternators would have had them. tractors like the 285 and newer still use ammeters instead of volt meters. And by his description of the volt meter in his truck, i'm guessing he has a late 80's early 90's F-series like me. I drive an 88 F150 and the only time I noticed a difference in my voltage reading was after my alternator went out. I could tell that much by the headlights being dimmed. If it had an ammeter, i probably could have been able to tell when the alt. was starting to go.

Donovan from Wisconsin

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Gerald J.

12-17-2006 19:21:25




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 AMMETER!!! in reply to Aaron Ford, 12-17-2006 18:27:09  
An ammeter shows you energy in and out of the battery and that the battery is connected and IS being charged. The voltmeter shows you a system voltage, but generally not the battery terminal voltage, so under charge the voltmeter rises faster than the battery voltage, IF you can tell the difference between 13 and 14 volts which is a tiny part of the scale on many meters. And a voltmeter won't show if the battery is disconnected while running.

The starter solenoid will tell you about the state of the battery charge. If its charged it cranks, if not, it clicks. The difference on the voltmeter is the difference between 12 and 11 volts at rest, again a tiny part of the typical automotive volt meter.

I've run both, at the same time. Even with a laboratory grade voltmeter, the useful information came from the ammeter, not the voltmeter.

It is harder to pass a 100 amp alternator output through a simple ammeter and I'm sure that's why my truck has a volt meter, but with calibration points at only 8 and 18 volts it tells ME less information than a lightbulb does by its glow. I'm not too sure it is anything more than a pointer that moves to a fixed position when the ignition is on, just like the Ford "oil pressure" gauge that is controlled by a switch.

Gerald J., Electrical Engineer.

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Hal/WA

12-17-2006 18:52:53




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 Re: Voltmeter or Ammeter in reply to Aaron Ford, 12-17-2006 18:27:09  
I think a volt meter tells me more useful information than an ammeter. It will read the volts of the system at that time rather than the amount the system is charging or discharging. It should tell me if the engine will turn over before I ever activate the starter switch. Also, a lot of modern alternator are capable of putting out much more amperage than most ammeters are made to handle. Once my son and I put a new, much stronger alternator on his old IHC Scout. We had to do some rewiring, since the new alternator had an internal regulator, but we continued to use the stock wiring scheme that put all the output through the ammeter. Unfortunately the battery had run down a bunch, so when we fired it up with the new alternator, the ammeter pegged the needle on the charge side. We didn't notice that right away and the ammeter got pretty hot. We probably really exceeded its design amperage by a lot. Luckily, we finally noticed the problem and shut it down before we had a fire under the dash (it did smoke a little!). We charged the battery with a regular charger and after that the system worked OK, with the ammeter never registering more than 30 amps charge, and then for only a few seconds before the reading went down. But I cautioned him to never let the battery get down very much and then plan to charge the battery with the alternator, since it had the potential to burn the Scout down. He sold the Scout a few months later, or we would have rewired it and eliminated whole power supply going through the low capacity ammeter. We explained what we had done to the new owner, who was a real mechanic.

You still need to follow the manufacturer's directions to install either an ammeter or volt meter. But I think the volt meter is easier and safer. IMHO

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souNdguy

12-18-2006 06:41:08




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 Re: Voltmeter or Ammeter in reply to Hal/WA, 12-17-2006 18:52:53  
"I think a volt meter tells me more useful information than an ammeter. ..... It should tell me if the engine will turn over before I ever activate the starter switch".

Nothing could be farther from the truth.

A heavilly discharged battery can show a residual voltage in the 12v range, that drops to 2-3v when it is put under load... thus just having a volt meter tell you that there is 12v on your battery will not tell you if the 100-150a load of the starter will be able to be sourced from the battery.

I'm of the opinion that a amp meter will tell you more about the 'condition' of your charging system.. that is.. the capability of your charge device, your battery, and or your loads.

Reading an ammter correctly, over time, and you should be able to tell when your battery is going south...

Soundguy

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dan hill

12-19-2006 03:17:32




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 Re: Voltmeter or Ammeter in reply to souNdguy, 12-18-2006 06:41:08  
Bought an old Eico vtvm.The ohms battery was marked best if used before 1954.It couldnt operate the ohms function but read 1.5 volts no load.The so called smart chargers are a flop because they rely on the surface charge to shut down.



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