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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

coils

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bm3501466

12-17-2006 19:33:52




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What is the purpose of the ballast resistor? I just ordered an Accel Supercoil for my 460 pulling tractor. Will it make any noticable difference in running with the high voltage coil? Where can I get an electric ignition system made just for my tractor? Also what happens if I run the tractor without the ballast resistor?




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John T

12-18-2006 08:06:40




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 Re: coils in reply to bm3501466, 12-17-2006 19:33:52  
BM,

"What is the purpose of the ballast resistor?" It is to reduce the amount of curent flow through the coil (so it doesnt overheat) and that same amount of current flow which the breaker points are switching on and off. As Bob so well pointed out, if much more then 3 or 4 amps is switched using those mechanical points they will burn up prematurely. An in line voltage dropping (12 to 6) current limiting ballast resistor is typically used when one has a 12 volt battery but wants to use a 6 volt rated coil, cuz if you use 12 volts on a 6 volt coil it draws twice its rated current and will overheat plus, as noted above, the points will not last.

"I just ordered an Accel Supercoil for my 460 pulling tractor. Will it make any noticable difference in running with the high voltage coil?"

VERY LITLE IF ANY DIFFERENCE IN PERFORMANCE (Although the super coil may be slightly more efficient and transfer more energy and waste less in heat) PLUS (depending on coils primary resistance) it may burn the points up quickly if its a low primary resistance coil. Heres what many people DO NOT UNDERSTAND. The voltage at which the plugs fire is dependant upon the plugs gap distance and the medium (compression and fuel mixture etc) in which it fires GIVEN THE SAME PLUG GAP AND MEDIUM, the firing voltage of a stock coil will be the same as the Accell super high voltage coil !!!!! !!!!! YOU GAIN NOTHING AND THE PLUGS FIRE AT SAME VOLTAGE notwithstanding the coil may be more efficient
and waste less as heat. WHAT THE ACCEL COIL CAN GIVE YOU is the ability and capability to fire at a higher voltage say if the plug gap was much wider and/or the compression is much higher which necessitates a higher voltage to arc current across the plugs gap buttttt tttt just cuz it has that capability DOES NOT mean it fires at any higher voltage then a stock coil provided the stock coils voltage can rise to a sufficient high level to fire the plug in the first case!!!!! !!!!!

"Where can I get an electric ignition system made just for my tractor?"

Try Pertronix

"Also what happens if I run the tractor without the ballast resistor?"

If its a full true 12 volt rated coil nuttin happens buttttt if its a 6 votl rated coil and you dont use a ballast, it will overheat the coil.

BOTTOM LINE: If you buy a high performace coil but still use mechanical points, you gain little if any in performance plus if the coil resistacne is too low (i.e. its made for use with an electronioc ignition switch) the points could burn up quickly. The way to get the bang for the buck is to match up a high performace coil with an electronic coil current switch like Pertronix sells.

NOTE this is NOT to say you cant get an accell coil of high enough resistacne to still use points with, they are made n used n sold no problem BUTTTTT T their secondary voltage will ramp up only high enough to fire the plugs NO HIGHER which will be the same voltage as the stock coil given the same conditions. Jus cuz they can rise higher does not mean they will, but if the compression is way high and/or youre running a wider plug (like a hi perf pulling tractor),they will and can still fire the plug where the stock coil may not..... ....

If you wanna use full elec ignition with a hi perf coil and an elec switch then YOU CAN GAIN SOME IN PERFORMANCE, but if you still use mechanical poiints youre not gonna gain all that much improvement DESPITE what coil you use. HOWEVER if youre at extreme high compression and use exotic fuels etc, then an elec ignition can work fine where a stock points ignition may well fail.

John T in Indiana

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bm3501466

12-18-2006 02:43:31




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 Re: coils in reply to bm3501466, 12-17-2006 19:33:52  
Thanks guys



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NEsota

12-17-2006 22:10:07




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 Re: coils in reply to bm3501466, 12-17-2006 19:33:52  
It has been some years since I had exposure to GM and what they did to get a hot spark but here is what I remember. They switched 12 volts to the primary side of the ignition coils. Pairs of cylinders got ignition at the same time. Thus they did not have to switch the hi voltage of the secondary of the coils. They were claiming as much as 100,000 volts applied to the plugs. The four cylinder engines had two coils and the sixes had three coils. Every plug was fired on every revolution but there was no fuel or air in the cylinder that had just finished its’ exhaust stroke, so nothing was ignited. Pickups, for the primary switching-timing was on the belt pulley drive wheel. One was used for each pair of cylinders. Seems to me that there should be a lot of ignition components in the auto salvage yards that would allow those systems to be installed on tractors.

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buickanddeere

12-18-2006 16:18:57




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 Re: coils in reply to NEsota, 12-17-2006 22:10:07  
Deere did the wasted spark system on the two cylinder diesel cranking engines built from 1954 through 1961.



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Bob

12-17-2006 22:18:52




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 Re: coils in reply to NEsota, 12-17-2006 22:10:07  
Those "waste spark" systems are generally under 'puter control, and not REAL easy to adapt to tractors. I know, I have a Ford 8N with no distributor, only a cam sensor, and two coil packs. Advance is still mech., so no 'puter is needed for that. It works well, and I'm trying to further simplify it.



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souNdguy

12-18-2006 06:08:39




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 Re: coils in reply to Bob, 12-17-2006 22:18:52  
I'd love to hear about that mod.

Me and a friend messed around with a breakerless ignition scheme for his 280zx years ago. Our method was cheezy and not very robust.. but that was years ago too...

Soundguy



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souNdguy

12-18-2006 06:08:32




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 Re: coils in reply to Bob, 12-17-2006 22:18:52  
I'd love to hear about that mod.

Me and a friend messed around with a breakerless ignition scheme for his 280zx years ago. Our method was cheezy and not very robust.. but that was years ago too...

Soundguy



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KEB

12-17-2006 20:54:29




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 Re: coils in reply to bm3501466, 12-17-2006 19:33:52  
As pointed out, the ballast resistor is to limit the current through the coil to an appropriate level. In automotive applications before electronic ignitions were common, the starting circuit would bypass the ballast resistor to provide a hotter spark for starting, then switch it back in when the engine was running to keep from burning up the points.

New coils designed to run directly on 12 volts are available, although I don't think there's any real advantage to using one. You can still only pass so much current though the points without burning them up.

Keith

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Keith-OR

12-17-2006 20:18:00




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 Re: coils in reply to bm3501466, 12-17-2006 19:33:52  
bm, unless Accel has changed their policy, the super coil should come with the appropriote resister. Some applications it is not required. I think I still have a couple of the super coils flooting around here somewhere. Gave one to Ex-BIL couple monthes ago for his 55 Chev pickup with 350 4/bolt main...

Keith & Shawn



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Bob

12-17-2006 20:07:11




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 Re: coils in reply to bm3501466, 12-17-2006 19:33:52  
Most conventional ignition systems with breaker points can only handle a primary ignition current with the points closed of 3 to 4 Amps.

Assuming this is a "12-Volt" system, the battery is at about 12.5 Volts with the engine NOT running, the coil MUST have a primary resistance of AT LEAST 3 or slightly more Ohms, or the excessive primary current will overheat the coil, and tend to overheat and burn the points.

A ballast resistor is used along with a coil with a resistance of less than 3 Ohms to make the total primary circuit resistance sufficient to limit current to a safe level.

If using an electronic igntion system, follow the MANUFACTURER'S recommendation for coil resistance. Same will work with coils with as little as .5 Ohms resistance, others need 2.5 or even 3 Ohm coils to avoid "toasting" the module.

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