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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

Post Beam Barn - followup pics

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Jon(IN)

01-15-2007 06:47:13




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This is a followup to my post the other day. Here are some more pics. I guess my biggest question is what type of puller to use to get the beams back together. Then, as suggested, I will use a turnbuckle to hold it in place with a cable. Then get the foundation corrected.
Any other thoughts?

There are some more pics in the link provided. two pictures are of the existing cable and puller that's been in place for 25+ years. This is on the 2 center beams of the barn

The forth picture is of the corner that needs rebuilt. This is the worst corner of the barn.

Link

Link


Jon



I've got a 110+ year old post and beam barn that needs some rework done to it. It's approx 50'x 65'x 30' tall. The foundation has settled in some corners and some of the lower walls have rotted away. I am in the process of jacking some of the corners up and resetting them. The thing really needs a roof, then it will be good to go, but I want to get the foundation solid, before putting the expense of a roof on it and trying to jack around on it after the roof is on. Here's my question though. Some of the horizontal beams have either rotted or came apart at the joins with the upright beams. These are in the main structural area. Some have been repaired in the past with iron straps bolted through them to hold them together, and one in the middle has a cable tied between the 2 uprights to hold them in unison. Kind of hard to explain but hopefully you get the picture. I have attached a pic I tood a while back of a corn picker, but you can see somewhat how the barn is built. This picture is along the edge though and doesn't show the structural part of the barn. What size cable do you think is needed to pull and hold the uprights together. Could I get by with a small cable and say a 4 ton puller? The one that is on the middle uprisers is a large 3/4" cable and chain type comealong. Maybe I will get some pics to help explain. But any thoughts from anyone with this type of experience would be appreciated.

Oh yeah, ( I don't want this to sound rude) but I don't need a lecture about how dangerous this stuff is and to let it up to a professional. I am very aware of the dangers and take lots of precautions when we work on it.

Thanks,

Jon

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02

01-15-2007 19:00:50




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 Re: Post Beam Barn - followup pics in reply to Jon(IN), 01-15-2007 06:47:13  
That barn needs collar ties real bad.



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barnrat

01-15-2007 14:18:46




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 Re: Post Beam Barn - followup pics in reply to Jon(IN), 01-15-2007 06:47:13  
Back in '04 finnally got together the funds to redo my 80'x36' post and beam dairy barn. The roof was gone in some spots, it also bowed and had settled up to 18" in spots. I hired the Amish to come in and fix it. They straightend and replaced beams, took 3 guys about 4 working days to strightin things out. They used variety of techniques including but not limited to: Chainsaws, bottle jacks, come alongs, tractors, and Hi-lift jacks.
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550Doug

01-15-2007 13:15:08




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 Re: Post Beam Barn - followup pics in reply to Jon(IN), 01-15-2007 06:47:13  
I like the photo you posted with all of the ORBS (circular smudges) that look like water stains on your lens. Do you recall whether your lens was wet or dry? I have seen these orbs in photos where people claim theyre proof of recent deaths or hauntings. For example, I remember seeing photos of the WTC after 911, taken with flash in low light conditions and there were hundreds of orbs in the photos. The comment was made that the orbs were proof of many recent deaths. I dont know, but sure would like an expalantion.

About the barn, I remember my father using cables to straighten our barn and every few years he had to retighten as the cables either stretched or the barn continued to move. I like the idea of using large threaded bolts so they can be adjusted slowly.
Good luck

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Jon(IN)

01-15-2007 13:30:10




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 Re: Post Beam Barn - followup pics in reply to 550Doug, 01-15-2007 13:15:08  
Doug,

About the pictures... I've had that problem with both digital cameras that I have ever had. I am NOT digitally illiterate by any means, but not a photographer either. It was very hazy from rain when I took the pictures, but I don't think the lens was wet. One picture would have the spots, I could immediately take another one and it would be fine. I think that it is the reflection of the flash off of moisture(or other particles) in the air that cause these. I have had this happen though on days where there wasn't rain or moisture in the air, actually happened on pictures taken inside my house.
I wish I new what it was, cause it is very frustrating when pictures don't turn out.
One other thought, my battery was almost dead in my camera when I took the pictures of the barn.

Jon

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1936

01-15-2007 13:05:51




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 Re: Post Beam Barn - followup pics in reply to Jon(IN), 01-15-2007 06:47:13  
Beam buildings in Indiana were constructed from tulip tree lumber. Good material if keep dry. I would have the structure inspected for the mid west native pest found in most old structures. Powder post beetle. If the wood is sound nail a lot of cross truss to hold beams in place and go to it. One very big job is an under statment.



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fixerupper

01-15-2007 10:48:47




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 Re: Post Beam Barn - followup pics in reply to Jon(IN), 01-15-2007 06:47:13  
I've straightened only one post and gable barn and I did it totally myself with no help so I made some mistakes but it came out OK. One important thing is you have to do it slowly to avoid damaging the building more. Dragging the cables in there and planning to straighten it in one day will only pull other parts of the barn apart or break something. For the bent post, I'd wrap a 1/2 inch cable between it and the post on the other side. If the other post is bent like this one, pull straight across from the same height on the other post. If the post on the other side is not bent then pull from the point closest to where the cross beam (the beam that is pulled away from the post you are trying to straighten)is fastened to it. Pull the cable with a turn buckle that is about two feet long or a come-along if you can find one strong enough. It will take a lot of time, maybe several months to get it back straight without pulling the rafters away from the plate or pushing them up and out of alignment at the peak. It probably didn't get crooked in a day so it won't go back straight in a day. Be careful, if a beam comes loose and falls on you it will spoil the fun real fast. Have fun and be patient. Just think of the good leg excersise you will get from going up and down the ladder. Jim

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Butcher

01-15-2007 09:55:28




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 Re: Post Beam Barn - followup pics in reply to Jon(IN), 01-15-2007 06:47:13  
Fixed acouple barns like that when I was in the construction buss. Always used all thread with heavy metal plates on the outside of the posts. One we had to stack cribbing all the way from the ground floor up to the peak to take pressure off of the ridge beam ( pulling the post together you are actually moving the roof also). I wouldnt expect to get it all tightened up first try. It took time to get that way, it'll take time to put it right.

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Walt Davies

01-15-2007 09:54:44




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 Re: Post Beam Barn - followup pics in reply to Jon(IN), 01-15-2007 06:47:13  
Man there is no way i would work under that roof with that kind of damage. If one has pulled out like that then the whole place is suspect to coming apart at any second.
If I were you and wanted to save the barn i would start taking it aprt from the top down. Be sure to susport it on all sides with heavy ,I mean heavy props. set in the ground good and secured to each main post. then you can take the roof off after that you should be able to work on it safely. But keep it well susported until it can stand on its own. and don't work alone get a large crew to help you.
Or if you don't understand the principle I would hire the work out. Your life and limb ain't worth the risk to do it yourself. I have a simular type barn and I worry about it at times but the main frame is solid so far.
Walt

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Walt Davies

01-15-2007 09:53:32




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 Re: Post Beam Barn - followup pics in reply to Jon(IN), 01-15-2007 06:47:13  
Man there is no way i would work under that roof with that kind of damage. If one has pulled out like that then the whole place is suspect to coming apart at any second.
If I were you and wanted to save the barn i would start taking it aprt from the top down. Be sure to susport it on all sides with heavy ,I mean heavy props. set in the ground good and secured to each main post. then you can take the roof off after that you should be able to work on it safely. But keep it well susported until it can stand on its own. and don't work alone get a large crew to help you.
Or if you don't understand the principle I would hire the work out. Your life and limb ain't worth the risk to do it yourself. I have a simular type barn and I worry about it at times but the main frame is solid so far.
Walt

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Walt Davies

01-15-2007 09:53:29




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 Re: Post Beam Barn - followup pics in reply to Jon(IN), 01-15-2007 06:47:13  
Man there is no way i would work under that roof with that kind of damage. If one has pulled out like that then the whole place is suspect to coming apart at any second.
If I were you and wanted to save the barn i would start taking it aprt from the top down. Be sure to susport it on all sides with heavy ,I mean heavy props. set in the ground good and secured to each main post. then you can take the roof off after that you should be able to work on it safely. But keep it well susported until it can stand on its own. and don't work alone get a large crew to help you.
Or if you don't understand the principle I would hire the work out. Your life and limb ain't worth the risk to do it yourself. I have a simular type barn and I worry about it at times but the main frame is solid so far.
Walt

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Walt Davies

01-15-2007 09:53:29




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 Re: Post Beam Barn - followup pics in reply to Jon(IN), 01-15-2007 06:47:13  
Man there is no way i would work under that roof with that kind of damage. If one has pulled out like that then the whole place is suspect to coming apart at any second.
If I were you and wanted to save the barn i would start taking it aprt from the top down. Be sure to susport it on all sides with heavy ,I mean heavy props. set in the ground good and secured to each main post. then you can take the roof off after that you should be able to work on it safely. But keep it well susported until it can stand on its own. and don't work alone get a large crew to help you.
Or if you don't understand the principle I would hire the work out. Your life and limb ain't worth the risk to do it yourself. I have a simular type barn and I worry about it at times but the main frame is solid so far.
Walt

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Walt Davies

01-15-2007 09:52:38




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 Re: Post Beam Barn - followup pics in reply to Jon(IN), 01-15-2007 06:47:13  
Man there is no way i would work under that roof with that kind of damage. If one has pulled out like that then the whole place is suspect to coming apart at any second.
If I were you and wanted to save the barn i would start taking it aprt from the top down. Be sure to susport it on all sides with heavy ,I mean heavy props. set in the ground good and secured to each main post. then you can take the roof off after that you should be able to work on it safely. But keep it well susported until it can stand on its own. and don't work alone get a large crew to help you.
Or if you don't understand the principle I would hire the work out. Your life and limb ain't worth the risk to do it yourself. I have a simular type barn and I worry about it at times but the main frame is solid so far.
Walt

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Walt Davies

01-15-2007 09:51:56




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 Re: Post Beam Barn - followup pics in reply to Jon(IN), 01-15-2007 06:47:13  
Man there is no way i would work under that roof with that kind of damage. If one has pulled out like that then the whole place is suspect to coming apart at any second.
If I were you and wanted to save the barn i would start taking it aprt from the top down. Be sure to susport it on all sides with heavy ,I mean heavy props. set in the ground good and secured to each main post. then you can take the roof off after that you should be able to work on it safely. But keep it well susported until it can stand on its own. and don't work alone get a large crew to help you.
Or if you don't understand the principle I would hire the work out. Your life and limb ain't worth the risk to do it yourself. I have a simular type barn and I worry about it at times but the main frame is solid so far.
Walt

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big hunter

01-15-2007 07:46:59




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 Re: Post Beam Barn - followup pics in reply to Jon(IN), 01-15-2007 06:47:13  
I'd use allthread. it is very controlled, slow moving, you can see whats happening while your tightening, when you get it tight or where you want the wood you stop and your done.



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Jon(IN)

01-15-2007 08:37:03




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 Re: Post Beam Barn - followup pics in reply to big hunter, 01-15-2007 07:46:59  
I like the idea of allthread, but how exactly would it work in this scenario? Do you use it in conjunction with cable? I think I will need to pull together to the other post.



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VADAVE

01-15-2007 07:22:03




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 Re: Post Beam Barn - followup pics in reply to Jon(IN), 01-15-2007 06:47:13  
Oh Dangerous.
What does the other post look like? Has it split also? If bending the same way?
Given that the other post is solid your problem is strength. Anchor the good post with an anchor in the ground outside the barn or even a tractor/truck--you need to hold it steady. Do not want it to pull into the broken post.
Then I would put one of those chain pullers at the cross beam that has pulled away--maybe a cable and turnbuckle. Big ones the size the power company uses.
Now up at the top of the broken post hook up a cable, maybe a pulley system and pull it straight. You will need POWER--maybe a tractor. Be careful you don't want to break the good post. Watch how the forces are going to be applied.
After you get it straight cable it up with turnbuckles, straight across and diagonal to the cross beam. Then I would put a strap around the broken post and drill through the cross beam.

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Jon(IN)

01-15-2007 08:32:30




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 Re: Post Beam Barn - followup pics in reply to VADAVE, 01-15-2007 07:22:03  
The other post is pretty good. Cross beam is maybe pulled out an inch, but the post is solid and straight. The picture is a bit misleading. The picture makes it look like it is really leaning and bent. In reality, it's not as bad as the picture makes out.



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T.C. in Tx

01-15-2007 07:17:27




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 Re: Post Beam Barn - followup pics in reply to Jon(IN), 01-15-2007 06:47:13  
Have you considered using those cargo straps like truckers use. I have used them on buildings and they work great. They are about 30 feet long and with a couple of them you should be able to get the length you need. They are easy to manuver into place and are very strong.



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