O T Powerstroke

On the rational side of this, I will never ever buy a Ford powerstroke with a 6.0 diesel chunk of aluminum. I do not even believe in the torq-shift automatic. Dodge is ugly, and the front ends are still acting stupid. My next truck IS NO TRUCK. I WILL NOT BUY ANY NEW TRUCK.

AND TO HE!! WITH THAT NEW TOYOTA TUNDRA FULLSIZE.

I know the 2003 and 2004 engines were pure POS. The 2005 and newer ones seem to be on par with the old 7.3 in reliability and a LOT more power.

The biggest issue on the earlier FORD powerstrokes was leaky injectors (desiel in the oil pan is never good). International sourced Seimens injectors. Ford wanted Bosch because they offered better controllability for emissions and reliability.

Navistar's concern is that they are being charged for problems that aren't theirs. It is much more complicated than a simplistic "navistar wasn't reimbursing ford for the warranty work on their engines."

Navistar would have been perfectly happy to continue building the 7.3L engine. FORD wanted the change. Ford also mandated changes beyond what Navistar wanted to make. Navistar is being used as a scapegoat to try and make mother Ford look better.

It's good to see a supplier pushing back at Ford's strongarm tactics and returning some pressure. Ford can't change engines at this point, and Navistar knows it. I'm sure this will all be resolved before Ford runs out of engines.

The question is what percentage of the claims International wants to share with Ford. International was a lot more successful with the 6.0L engine in their own trucks, with their own programming and power curves. I don't have the 6.0L numbers, but here is a comparison of the International 6.4L vs. the Ford 6.4L:

International-branded medium truck applications:
Power Output: 200-230 hp (149 - 171 kW) @ 2,600rpm Peak Torque: 560-620 lb. ft.(759 - 840 N m) @ 1,400rpm

Ford F350:
Power Output: 350 hp @ 3,000rpm
Peak Torque: 650 lb. ft. @ 2,000rpm

Ford F450/550:
Power Output: 325 hp @ 3,000rpm
Peak torque: 600 lb. ft. @ 2,000rpm

[numbers are from various International and Ford product sites]

Again, these are the 6.4L numbers, but there were similar differences among the 6.0L versions. Granted, International must have bought into the higher ratings, but it would have been interesting to see how the 6.0L would have fared if Ford hadn't "bumped them up." Unfortunately, Ford would have been last in the horsepower race. Obviously, the applications are differerent, but maybe the engines are "happier" at lower RPMs, and different programs. How much are the Ford versions overstressed while using Ford mandated parts to achieve the higher ratings? It would be interesting to see the difference in boost between the applications, too, but that isn't available.

http://www.cummins.com/na/pages/en/products/dodgeram/faq/answers.cfm?uuid=000C518F-094B-1E31-850880C4A8F00000

Ford, at one time - a few years back - had a stock-option agreement with Cummins - but never followed through with the purchase.

Ford got sued a few years back by Navistar - for cancelling a large order for new diesel V-6 engines. And now, seems Ford wants to sue Navistar for all the problems with the crappy 6 liter diesels.

Cummins is an independent company. They are listed on the New York Stock Exchange.

Dodge has spent a lot of time establishing the Cummins brand as a good light truck engine so they may not want to drop it and have to start over again.

Think of it, Every Dodge with a Cummins has the Cummmins name in chrome letters on the side of the truck.

Most people don't even know that Ford buys their engines from International until the Ford mechanic blames any and all problems they encounter on Navistar.