O/T Underground Cable

After the fact, I located a number for, and called, the "Call before you Dig" folks. They put me in touch with Verizon who is currently investigating it. No phone outage up the road at the neighbor, and this line has to be at least 5-6 years old.

Oops!

It's fun here, as a call to Ms Utility invariably gets a "no utilities installed" reply. That's fine, and I go digging and tilling away.

Never mind that there's a telephone pole in the field, and two underground cable boxes on the property.

I did raise cain with the phone company once, and they did send a fella out to mark the lines. He found hundreds of them it seemed. God only knows how many cans of paint he went through painting my place up. Funny thing was he missed where the cables actually are.

Thats not going to work any more. Having worked in the locating industry for 15 years. We got tired of paying for other peoples mistakes and we take photos of all our locates. Also remember that the poor locator who takes the blame for your mistake may well loose his job if he didnt take photos and you get lucky enough to get away with it.

One rule we lived by. If we screwed up, Own up and fix what we did wrong so its less likely to happen again.

I hope it was not a fiber that got hit. Pricey buggers to get fixed. Fixing it is cheap its the lost calls that cost. I have seen them cost upwards of a million bucks when its all done.
try to explain that to your insurance company.

Just because your on a farm dont just think there is nothing there. They like to put them 30 feet off the rd to keep them away from the road work. I have seen many 200 feet in a field.

Fibers are every where and the guys putting them in are just putting them in as cheap as possable.
I.E. Shallow or real deep. Shallow gets them over any existing facilities deep gets them under.

The owness is on you the digger. You must call for a locate and hand dig to the depth of your excavation with in 2 foot of the marks. Some states less some more.

10 inches is to shallow but if you didnt follow the law, your hosed.

I was a 1st level supervisor from 94 on. Had to leave, excel spread sheets have taken the power from the people who know how to get the work done. Then impowered people who have no idea what the heck they are doing.
Upper management having more information is not a good thing. they need to be blissfully unaware and stay out of the soup.
The more info they have the more they want to manage it. They all manage per this months report. Not whats a good thing for next summer to do now.

Oh oh I better watch out I may go on a rant.

This is is good post, as it is a reminder to make the one call center before you dig call, know what your right of way and easement criteria is and to be well informed across the board as best you can, keeping a file folder with all relevant information, documents, maps and or researching for items that should be in your folder and kept in your possession.

We have a 170'-0" wide easement that bisects our place here and I have to cross under those high voltage lines on their easement, we own both sides. They just came through, and the power company National Grid which was formerly Niagara-Mohawk hired a subcontractor Hawkeye, that has a branch in Syracuse, but is based out of Patchogue, on Long Island. 2 years ago they needed to build a road to gain access to the location where they built a tower foundation and last week erected a large galvanized steel tower that will suspend the lines to cross our 20 something acre pond and the state road. They also installed new wood poles for an additional circuit and to upgrade the existing circuit, besides the big one which I think was 70,000 + volts, I keep forgetting, it may be a lot more over 100,000. This easement has been left idle for years, but the local college, R.P.I. has been building some big projects and needs more power, so they had to increase the service.

Deed says I had to give them acess, now right from the start I could have been a pr$ck and if you think JDMaris is tough, try me next LOL ! Well I can be very harsh and know how to play the game LOL ! Probably comes from being in the construction industry I suppose, and being naturally diligent or when pushed and just plain not tolerating crap from people I guess. We had a bitter fight with the town over our old farm buildings and I was relentless to the point we emptied the state police barracks next door when it came close to getting violent, completely ruined the job for the contractor and paid zero for the demo due to a glitch we exposed in their condemnation process which set a new precedent for the town. It made the front page of the newspaper and really stirred the pot if you get my drift, sometimes you do have to be a real pr$ck. Was an unfortunate situation, but I think both sides learned something and moved on.

Well time is short, so in contrast, when Asplundh came through I made my presence known, I also got friendly with the right of way agent and we reviewed the drawings on the job, he came to the house, also made friends with their field guy, and the contractors that have been on the job. Now I know the potential for things that can go wrong, but by letting these people know about any concerns I had and also be being helpful, it turned out fine. They were told to take care of the property owner, especially in this location, we got 400 ton of item #4 crushed stone, some equipment use etc etc. and I did help them with sighting in the road, myself and the dozer operator, worked out great. Had I not gotten involved and made a presence, you just don't know what may have gone wrong, mostly nuisance and things like ruts or bad housekeeping, the usual when you get sloppy or unprofessional contractors. Some contractors can do some blatantly stupid things, many times because no one is there, so it's good to be involved. Asplundh's guys were professional, Buffalo Drilling were excellent, and Hawkeye has been excellent, they have been crossing though our cornfield, hopefully they will be done before planting, as they have more farms to cross, they even put my road barricades back at the end of the day. I have seen a lot in my career and I can honestly say that they all have been professionals on the job, contrary to what can and does happen in many instances. They sheared off a post on my line, 6x6 with a sign and I've found a few odds and ends but I talk to the guys in the field first, if not I'll speak to the right of way person or further up and it will get straightened out. It's good to be involved, and at the first sign of any problems, needs to be taken care of immediately, no response, then we take sides. They needed a wetland permit for this job and I am friendly with the Encon agent, she came by on an unrelated item and I let her know these guys have done a great job with no impact at all to the pond or th surrounding area, foreman from the drilling company seemed to appreciate that. It was true, they maintained the road, silt fence and kept the site clean.

I'm sure this is not the case in many instances, but get involved, speak softly and carry a big stick, seems to work. They will also restore the area as was before, per our liking, that will be the last phase of the job, so far so good, still have some issues, but at least it's not a fight.

I can't imagine how many farms and property owners deal with right of ways, easements and the like but this is a good post to share experiences, and I hope no one finds anymore lines like what started the thread ! What a sinking feeling that must be.

JD, your place must be a literal grid, what a pain it sounds like, and the guys coming back after work to hunt that is real BS - why did'nt they ask first. I really don't like others hunting my place even my friends, but I have shared every season and really enjoy seeing someone get some hunting in, bag a deer etc. especially if they appreciate it. Being able to hunt somewhere is becoming a real hassle for anyone who does not have a place or land today, so it does not bother me if they askb politely, again it's usually just my friends, but if you ask I might let you, if I know where you are and when you come and go, don't be a nuisance and don't come back without permission first. If you invade my place, you don't want to deal with me. Lot of things to discuss on these issues, getting way carried away here, but a real good topic I think.

Nonetheless, I appreciate the input. Some good information has been provided here and maybe we've even saved someone some headaches in the future.

Thanks,
Shane

if i had a complaining customer, i wouldn't touch anything til the problem was resolved, mostly because that's what i was taught to do by the company...because, like i said, public relations was very big with them. what i'm saying in a nutshell is, if there's a problem, call and work with that utility to make it right for you. they can't know you're upset or have a problem unless you let them know about it.

-mike

8/14/06 CMR Claims Department, PO Box 60770, Oklahoma City, OK, 73146. Description of
damage - 34 Hill Road, Worcester, NY, date of damage - 5/15/06. Total due - $1,996.61.
Payment - requested to be sent to Verizon, PO Box 1096, Cockeysville, MD, 21030-6096.
Bill # 212CP18BC0806
Damage Claim # NYPR061736
Bill shown as thus: Labor - $1,027 Administrative Cost - $198.39 Sales Tax - $82.22 Motor Vehicle Cost - $64.04 Contractor Costs - $571.98 Loss of use - local copper exchange loop - $52.50

I was pretty ticked off. And, contractor costs ??? They have the nerve to bill me $571 for a bunch of guys haning out drinking coffee?? I should of sent THEM a bill for my backhoe work. I contacted them - and they sent me a copy of the New York Statue that - they alleged - holds me repsonsible. In brief:

"All excavators must call DigSafely. New York at 1-800-962-7962
at least two (2) working days prior to the start of excavation, but
not more than ten.
[ For a full explanation, take a look at our page entitled, . ]
[ The complete list of responsibilities for excavators is contained
within .] "

I then got my hands on the entire text and read carefully. The law does NOT apply to homeowners working their own property. It applies to "third-parties" e.g. contractors. I called my farm-insurance company and they sent over a claims-adjuster. At first - the adjuster told me I was wrong - and he then pulled out his lap-top computer to show me the full text of the law (which I'd already carefully read). Seems I read it more closely then he did. I pointed out a few things to the adjuster - and he said "I'll be d*mned, you're right." He told me NOT to pay, and if they harass me anymore - to have Verizon contact the insurance-company's legal dept.

I sent Verizon a letter - and informed them I would not pay them one cent - and if I hear anymore from them - I will proceed to send them a bill for my backhoe time - 6 hours billed at $200 per hour, plus $50 per hour for my labor time.

I never got a reply.

second, that cable you hit while grading should have been deeper. there are depth requirements for buried cable. but on public right of ways like roads, you are required to request locates before doing any kind of excavation,,,altho i don't believe grading a roadway should be considered excavating unless you were lowering the existing grade. third, just because you haven't heard from them doesn't mean they've forgotten about you. part of everyone's phone bill, (used to anyway), pays for a legal department within' the company. those guys have to justify their jobs, so watch out. you might want to get the jump on them with your insurance guy and get ahold of a copy of their guidelines (buried depths etc.) they have to go by, and cover your butt. you can bet THEY are studying on it.

-mike

We have trouble with the utilities as well. They want to cut down the trees in our front yard and I am kinda partial to 'em. The trees were there first. Neighbor has one entangled in the lines, but they will not touch it due to the fact that the lines will likely be damaged if they try. They have decided to wait til Mother Nature knocks it down. Reactive instead of Proactive, I suppose.

But on a more serious note, I do not think it matters where the contractors are from. Crappy work is everywhere. Our water line was put in by a premier contractor and when it pulled apart, they found that the two sections had less than an inch inserted into the slip joint. It was a matter of time.

Aaron

I even got left with ruts in the yard and now I have drainage problems. They left the grade off just enough that water in my yard pools up before it can get into the "new" ditch.