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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

Diesel or Propane

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billybunter

04-18-2007 14:57:19




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Hi
Assuming a large tractor of around 100hp which is likely to use the most litres of fuel per hour or day? Which would be the most economical for road work.
Thanks for now.




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Glen in TX

04-19-2007 08:41:29




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 Re: Diesel or Propane in reply to billybunter, 04-18-2007 14:57:19  
When butane was available and prices cheap years ago it could be competitive and efficient for tractors somewhat. Today no because of propane prices it will probably cost you more to run it in a tractor. Most didn't have that large of tanks so during a long day you may be refilling 3 or 4 times at least and that is lost time covering acres and if was custom work money and lost time. For on road vehicles it's a different story and can make a stop start vehicle engine last much longer and be a little more efficient but you aren't pulling as much of a load for lugging hp like a tractor plus a much cleaner burning fuel. For stationary engines could be a trade off either way depending on engine size, load, and use or what other resources are available. Sometimes it's not feasible to pay for running a long natural gas pipe line to just one engine in stationary use. For more LPG info at link scroll down in left column to principles, terms, & facts.

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Billy NY

04-19-2007 05:48:55




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 Re: Diesel or Propane in reply to billybunter, 04-18-2007 14:57:19  
No doubt as to how clean they run and long they last, the oil stays clean for a long time, I just looked on the filter of mine, Sept., 2004 last time it was changed, mind you, it does not work full time and I'll be changing it soon, the oil is still clear on the dipstick, heard a lot of others saying when apart you can see the cross hatch on the cylinder walls from honing or etching, no or minimal wear. If it't got a fixed tank, your range will be limited to where you refill, always wondered if farmers who used them ever had a nurse tank on wheels or something, mine takes forklift size 30 lb tanks, could use 40lb ones, little heavy to heft around, I just take a spare to the field so if I run out, I don't have to walk to get one. I knew nothing about these, just flat out bought this one, it's been fun, rebuilt the vaporizor last year, got hosed by local supplier on the rebuild kit at $160, live and learn, same thing on ebay was like $20, needed it running, hate when that happens. Cold starts are much better now, best to keep em indoors, electrical connections tight/clean on fuel system and coolant up to level, sometimes they can be hard in weather below 20 degrees, if the fuel does not vaporize, other than that, little different but well worth consideration.

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jdemaris

04-19-2007 05:45:53




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 Diesel often twice as efficient in reply to billybunter, 04-18-2007 14:57:19  
Just read a few efficiency tests from Nebraska Tests. LP is always the least efficient. But, LP is cheaper so usually - gas is the most expensive to run, LP the second, and diesel the cheapest.
At present, the National average price of LP is $1.50 , reg. gas is $2.87, pump diesel $2.87, and farm diesel $1.90.

For example - a Deere 4020 with Syncro trans.

LP 4020,95 HP, 7.9 horsepower-hours per gallon Cost 19 cents per horsepower-hour.

Gas 4020, 95 HP 9.9 horsepower-hours per gallon Cost 29 cents per horsepower-hour.

Diesel 4020, 95HP 16.4 horsepower-hours per gal. Cost 11.5 cents per horsepower-hour.

Farmal-IH 706

LP 706, 76HP, 7.4 horsepower-hours per gal. Cost 20 cents per horsepower-hour.

Gas 706, 76.5HP, 9.5 horsepower-hours per gal. Cost 30 cents per horsepower-hour.

Diesel 706, 76HP, 12.4 horsepower-hours per gal. Cost 15 cents per horsepower-hour.

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willie in mn

04-19-2007 04:55:20




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 Re: Diesel or Propane in reply to billybunter, 04-18-2007 14:57:19  
Not an opinion, but an observation, to add to the mix. Notice all those yellowish Schwan ice cream trucks scooting around the country? They are GMC 454's running on propane. However, just recently drove past a body plant where new Schwan trucks were being fitted out. These were International/Navistar rigs. Didn't get to check what engines were in these. Don't think Navistar still supplies a gas engine, so maybe Schwan is switching to diesel. Or maybe GM quit building the 454. Your guess is as good as mine.
Willie

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Owen Aaland

04-20-2007 00:05:45




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 Re: Diesel or Propane in reply to willie in mn, 04-19-2007 04:55:20  
Since 2000 the Schwans trucks have been using the 8.1L rather than the 7.4L. They also switched from the IMPCO vapor mixer system to their own Bi-Phase liquid LP electronic fuel injection.

In January 2003 they bought 80 Navistar diesels. They had run out of 2002 chassis and were having problems getting the new GMC chassis converted to LP fast enough.

They also continue to purchase various diesel and gasoline units to use as comparisons to verify the savings on propane. Areas, such as westerns Dakotas and Montana, where the truck will be away from the depots for several over nights are also good candidates for diesels since it hard to purchase LP at retail in most places.

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JoeBob/IN

04-19-2007 14:22:26




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 Re: Diesel or Propane in reply to willie in mn, 04-19-2007 04:55:20  
The 454 went out of mainstream production in 2000, not sure if they were still produced as supply only engines or not.



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NEIADan

04-18-2007 18:38:16




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 Re: Diesel or Propane in reply to billybunter, 04-18-2007 14:57:19  
Sure are a lot of peope who jump to the idea that diesel is the way to go. Actually you can't hardly wear an Lp engine out. If you have ever changed oil in an lp you would see that it is as clean burning as your furnace. once you understand the concept of the fuel vaporizer the are so simple. We have used an lp around the farm for many years because they are cheaper to run. I have 2 JD 70's one lp and a diesel, as everyone knows those 70 disels will work all day on 2 1/2 gal hour at $2.55/gal this week versus 3.5 gal of lp at $1.28. These are our on farm prices. The disadvantage is you need to keep them close to a tank for refills They just aren't that flexible for long distance farming. It is a lot easier to carry fuel to that diesel. But then again nobody siphons lp out of the tank

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billybunter

04-19-2007 00:13:00




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 Re: Diesel or Propane in reply to NEIADan, 04-18-2007 18:38:16  
Hi Guys
Thanks for the replies. Great to get a range of opinion and experiences from those who have used these different engines and fuels.



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Allan In NE

04-18-2007 23:55:22




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 Re: Diesel or Propane in reply to NEIADan, 04-18-2007 18:38:16  
On a light load application, such as an irrigation engine or the like, I'd tend to agree with you.

However, propane will loose about 10% in raw pulling power as compared to a gasoline outfit and the gasoline machine can't even begin to pull with a diesel when it comes to plain old fashioned lugging torque.

Allan



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Vito

04-18-2007 16:45:11




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 Re: Diesel or Propane in reply to billybunter, 04-18-2007 14:57:19  
Diesel would be better.The engine will last alot longer.100 H.P. is alot of ponies. Propane is good for cooking stoves etc.



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Owen Aaland

04-18-2007 18:45:31




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 Re: Diesel or Propane in reply to Vito, 04-18-2007 16:45:11  
A properly set up propane engine will outlast an engine running gasoline or diesel. With propane you will not have oil diluted with fuel so you do not have cylinder wall or bearing wear caused by fuel dilution. I have been servicing a fleet of propane powered trucks for over 25 years. I have done valve jobs on 350 Chev engines with over 200,000 miles on them and there was no measurable wear on the cylinder walls. Currently most of the trucks have 8.1L engines putting out about 340 HP, a gain of 15 to 20 HP over the gasoline setup they left the factory with.

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johnlobb

04-18-2007 16:17:15




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 Re: Diesel or Propane in reply to billybunter, 04-18-2007 14:57:19  
Propane has around 96,000 BTU's per gallon and #2 fuel oil (around the same as diesel) has 139,000 BTU's per gallon. Guess which can do the most work! When propane was cheap, it was a great fuel with over 110 octane and the cleanest burning fuel of any kind.



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Allan In NE

04-18-2007 15:44:38




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 Re: Diesel or Propane in reply to billybunter, 04-18-2007 14:57:19  
Can't even imagine running a 100 horse tractor on propane. Would have to tether it to the fuel barrel. :>(

Allan



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4010guy

04-18-2007 17:21:07




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 Re: Diesel or Propane in reply to Allan In NE, 04-18-2007 15:44:38  
Hey allan,,We farmed for years with an old mm g 1000 (about 110 hp) with a i think 40 gallon propane tank----As a kid i just loved it as about every four hours or less i got to go home for a snack and a cool drink,,,,And let me tell ya, After four hours on a g 1000 you needed a break.



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mjbrown

04-18-2007 15:36:17




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 Re: Diesel or Propane in reply to billybunter, 04-18-2007 14:57:19  
Most litres of fuel? Propane by a wwwwide margin.



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