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Remove head or Oil Pan?

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FarmallJoe

10-11-2007 14:17:54

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i have been told to remove the oil pan first and try to un sieze the motor instead of takin the head off. anybody got a preferance. what about oil pan gaskets? torque on bolts?

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Oldcraneguy

10-12-2007 08:31:32

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Re: Remove head or Oil Pan? in reply to FarmallJoe, 10-11-2007 14:17:54

While I understand your not wanting to do a complete rebuild, the way you describe the cyl. wall that you can see dictates that you have to pull the head and dress the walls minimum, Id use a cyl hone myself, if the walls arent too pitted you might be ok to just clean it up, free it up, and go. But even if you manage to get it broke loose without pulling the head chances are youll eat up the rings and walls in no time.. a head gasket set isnt all that expensive. As far as hitting the pistons direcrly with a hammer goes, dont! Ive used a 3x3 block of wood bout a foot long with a piece of tire flap on top of the piston with good results but dont goe crazy with the sledge an dont do it if the piston is all the way up or down, I prefer a good pinch bar on the flywheel at the same time if you have some help around. good luck

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bhb

10-12-2007 06:31:32

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Re: Remove head or Oil Pan? in reply to FarmallJoe, 10-11-2007 14:17:54

If you free the engine with all that rust in it and not clean it out you it will grind all that rust into the cylinders, piston and rings. If it gets into the oil it can damage the crankshaft and bearings. I would remove the head and pan to clean the rust out when you get the pistons out. I would take it apart and rebuild it. You would then have an engine that will last a long time and be trouble free. In the long run it is the cheapest way to go.
Bill

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slowfolk

10-12-2007 05:49:00

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Re: Remove head or Oil Pan? in reply to FarmallJoe, 10-11-2007 14:17:54

Even if you where successful in getting the pistons un-stuck you still should remove the sleeves and install new o-rings around them. They only cost about $5.00 per cylinder. If they leak you will have to tear the entire engine apart again to repair.

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fixerupper

10-11-2007 18:55:37

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Re: Remove head or Oil Pan? in reply to FarmallJoe, 10-11-2007 14:17:54

You can jack up on the bottom of the pistons with a hydraulic jack and a thin block after you unbolt the rods from the crank but you will have to hold the sleeves down with big washers slid down over the head studs. Jack up on the piston just enough to barely raise the front wheels off the floor, then get your oak block and a heavy hammer and rap down on the top of the piston to try to jar it loose. The tractor you are working on is pretty light so it won't put much push on the piston, but it might be worth a try. Good luck. Let us know how it turns out. Jim

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Dave H (MI)

10-11-2007 16:51:15

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Re: Remove head or Oil Pan? in reply to FarmallJoe, 10-11-2007 14:17:54

Joe, a word of advice and you can take it or leave it...

Do a search under my name and see how much help these fellas can be when you give them the respect they deserve. I get poked at now and again but you just blow it off and concentrate on the goal. Specifically, look on the IH formum archives...my name, reference "Farmall B". Live and learn.

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colekicker

10-11-2007 16:09:24

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Re: Remove head or Oil Pan? in reply to FarmallJoe, 10-11-2007 14:17:54

In my opinion, I would remove both for a better inspection. You may find the problem on top of the piston, below it or right next two them.

Pull the head. Not many nuts and its worth it to do a valve job and new guides.

Pull the pan and see if the pistons just move to surface rust on the bottom end of the cylinder wall.

I wouldn't recommend "hammering on the cylinders" until you know what you are trying to hammer them through. There may be a bigger reason they won't move.

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Andy Motteberg

10-11-2007 15:01:28

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Re: Remove head or Oil Pan? in reply to FarmallJoe, 10-11-2007 14:17:54

I would remove the Head if you are totally restoring it since you would need to remove the head anyway. Soak up the cylinders with PB Blaster/or brake fluid, I have used PB Blaster & Brake fluid and it works almost every time. If you are not doing a complete restoration, you could try soaking the cylinders through the spark plug holes.

Good luck.

Andy.

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FarmallJoe

10-11-2007 15:05:57

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Re: Remove head or Oil Pan? in reply to Andy Motteberg, 10-11-2007 15:01:28

yea i soaked it with everything for 5 weeks but nothing worked. i want to hammer on the cylinders. whats the least problematic way oilpan or head

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Janicholson

10-11-2007 15:14:30

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Re: Remove head or Oil Pan? in reply to FarmallJoe, 10-11-2007 15:05:57

Please do not hammer on the pistons from either end.
Removing the head will be best, then you can see what the challenge is. The Farmall IH forum (Click above) has an archive full of stuck engine tips. We do not know what model or brand you are working on?
JimN

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FarmallJoe

10-11-2007 15:49:01

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Re: Remove head or Oil Pan? in reply to Janicholson, 10-11-2007 15:14:30

im workin on an A that sat outside for 3 years

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Red Dave

10-11-2007 16:06:16

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Re: Remove head or Oil Pan? in reply to FarmallJoe, 10-11-2007 15:49:01

If you are working on a Farmall A, take off the head, remove the crankshaft, then push the pistons & sleeves out the top of the block. They are wet sleeves and shouldn't be hard to remove and they come out the top.

The rebuild kit will have new pistons, sleeves & the O-rings for them, rings, gaskets, all new.

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FarmallJoe

10-11-2007 16:39:26

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Re: Remove head or Oil Pan? in reply to Red Dave, 10-11-2007 16:06:16

i kinda want to avoid rebuilding is there another option

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Red Dave

10-11-2007 16:58:06

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Re: Remove head or Oil Pan? in reply to FarmallJoe, 10-11-2007 16:39:26

Well, maybe you can still carefully push the pistons and sleeves out and free them up, then get a gasket set and new O-rings and put them all back in.

One thing is for sure: If you take off the head and push up on the bottom of the pistons, you won't need to push too hard before the sleeves come out. The only thing that holds them in is the head.

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Bob

10-11-2007 15:08:08

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SOUNDS LIKE TRACTOR ABUSE! in reply to FarmallJoe, 10-11-2007 15:05:57

"I want to hammer on the cylinders!" YIKES!

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FarmallJoe

10-11-2007 15:09:40

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Re: SOUNDS LIKE TRACTOR ABUSE! in reply to Bob, 10-11-2007 15:08:08

you know tap them out put a block of wood over them and hamer on it to loosen them up

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Bob

10-11-2007 15:15:56

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Re: SOUNDS LIKE TRACTOR ABUSE! in reply to FarmallJoe, 10-11-2007 15:09:40

It sounds like you already know the answer... not TOO easy to do that from down below!

I wouldn't hammer on the CYLINDERS, though!

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FarmallJoe

10-11-2007 15:12:32

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Re: SOUNDS LIKE AN IDIOT in reply to FarmallJoe, 10-11-2007 15:09:40

have you ever dealt with siezed engines

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old

10-11-2007 16:49:04

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Re: SOUNDS LIKE AN IDIOT in reply to FarmallJoe, 10-11-2007 15:12:32

What have you been soaking the cylinders with?? If you use the right stuff it might free up but if the worng stuff good luck. That said I would pull the head, then fill the cylinders with tranny fluid. Let that sit a week or so then refill them and put about a table spoon of gas in each and light it up if its safe to do so. What that does is heats up the block but not the pistons.

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FarmallJoe

10-11-2007 17:34:58

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Re: SOUNDS LIKE AN IDIOT in reply to old, 10-11-2007 16:49:04

i been soakin the cylinders w/ marvel/atf/pb blaster

for a long time

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old

10-11-2007 17:41:26

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Re: SOUNDS LIKE AN IDIOT in reply to FarmallJoe, 10-11-2007 17:34:58

It can take a long time to pop one free. I had one that I soaked for over a year and still ended up doing the trick of pulling the head and lighting it up and then it popped free

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Bob

10-11-2007 15:18:29

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Sounds like a SMART DONKEY! in reply to FarmallJoe, 10-11-2007 15:12:32

"have you ever dealt with siezed engines"

Yeah, probably a few more than YOU, by the sounds of things!

NOW, lighten up a bit, cut up a nice oak post into nice-fitting sections, and get 'em loose!

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FarmallJoe

10-11-2007 15:39:38

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Re: Sounds like a SMART DONKEY! in reply to Bob, 10-11-2007 15:18:29

hey smart a*@ cut the sh*@ and talk about the tractors and quit your b@tch*n

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Bob

10-11-2007 17:09:43

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Re: Sounds like a SMART DONKEY! in reply to FarmallJoe, 10-11-2007 15:39:38

LOL!

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Ben Rauls

10-11-2007 15:41:26

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Re: Sounds like a SMART DONKEY! in reply to FarmallJoe, 10-11-2007 15:39:38

Whats with the attitude?

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FarmallJoe

10-11-2007 15:45:57

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Re: Sounds like a SMART DONKEY! in reply to Ben Rauls, 10-11-2007 15:41:26

nothin he was just bein smart

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Mike (WA)

10-11-2007 16:51:34

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Re: Sounds like a SMART DONKEY! in reply to FarmallJoe, 10-11-2007 15:45:57

Sounds like someone needs to be smart here. Obviously, if you just take off the pan, how can you "hammer on the cylinders?" You have to take off the head, to have someplace to whack with your 3 lb. sledge. As far as avoiding a rebuild, how is that going to happen? After you've "hammered the cylinders", looks like a rebuild is in your future, at a minimum.

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UMMM...HMMMMM!

10-11-2007 16:57:41

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Re: Sounds like a SMART DONKEY! in reply to Mike (WA), 10-11-2007 16:51:34

Thats kinda what I was thinking too Mike. but in all fairness that this gentleman knows what hes doing,the pistons will have to be knocked downward towards the pan, go up and the sleeve comes out with it.(Which isnt a bad idea, hes just trying to save a few bucks, which BTW I understand)or it could be, and this is just the way I take it, hes trying to patch it up then pawn it off on some poor sap who deosnt know any better. Dont know the guy, but Ill bet I just made him mad.

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FarmallJoe

10-11-2007 17:13:51

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! in reply to UMMM...HMMMMM!, 10-11-2007 16:57:41

naaa this is my first tractor project. i was told to take the oil pan off. i wasnt sure about about it so i asked you guys. now that i have some more advice i can make a decision. i would like to stay away from rebuilding because i dont have 400$ to spend right now im gunna do everything else possible then maby. the tractor was pretty much free so it isnt a big deal. i was goind to take the pan off to put som pressure on things while the oil sat and loosened up the pistons!

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Well...

10-11-2007 17:17:18

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Re: ! in reply to FarmallJoe, 10-11-2007 17:13:51

My suggestion, fill the cylinders with tranny fluid, if possible, set the crank in a position to where it would be like pushing down on the handcrank, but hang a cement block or something heavy on it and let it sit some more. OR I have freed them up by soaking the cylinders for a while and then bumping the starter with a good battery.

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FarmallJoe

10-11-2007 17:19:43

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Re: ! in reply to Well..., 10-11-2007 17:17:18

yea i have tried that but its really stuck bad. i took the manifold off and i can see som real nasty rust on the cylinder walls! that sucks

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FarmallJoe

10-11-2007 17:19:28

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Re: ! in reply to Well..., 10-11-2007 17:17:18

yea i have tried that but its really stuck bad. i took the manifold off and i can see som real nasty rust on the cylinder walls! that sucks

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buickanddeere

10-12-2007 07:48:56

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Re: ! in reply to FarmallJoe, 10-11-2007 17:19:28

Fill with your favorite oil and park the tractor in a sheltered spot until you have a couple of grand to do the job right. You will never be happy with it otherwise. The entire engine has to come apart down to every little piece. The rust/dirt/grit you will find in every delicate spot will make you glad you never started it. Just because it was cheap doesn't make it ok to tear it apart then give up on the old girl.

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RobMD

10-12-2007 08:25:52

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Re: ! in reply to buickanddeere, 10-12-2007 07:48:56

100% true. Too bad I don't live up to it. I'm a hypocrite with tractors! LOL!

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John M

10-12-2007 03:48:10

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Re: ! in reply to FarmallJoe, 10-11-2007 17:19:28

If theres rust, pull the head, and the oan, disconnet the rods, knock them out carefully from the bottom and just rebuild it, it aint going to run right with pitted cylinders.

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FarmallJoe

10-12-2007 12:02:42

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Re: ! in reply to John M, 10-12-2007 03:48:10

Thank you all for your advice i am probly gunna take the head off and see what the situation is and then tell you and you can help me from there thanks

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