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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

Piston Sleeves

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slowfolk

10-13-2007 06:25:00




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I posted to a message about water in the crankcase and stated that possibly the o-rings around the sleeves were bad. Well someone corrected me in that the tractor engine had dry sleeves not wet. I always learn from this forum. Is there some standard that the manufactures used to determine if wet or dry sleeves should be used in a particular model of engine? Also, I have removed wet sleeves from three different engines with no problem. Is it more or less difficult to remove dry sleeves?

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Slowfolk

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ken in texas

10-13-2007 20:00:47




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 Re: Piston Sleeves in reply to slowfolk, 10-13-2007 06:25:00  
Dry sleeves slip into the cylinder that is cast with the block. Wet sleeves slip into blocks that have no cylinders cast with the block and are in contact with the coolant,and are therefore wet.



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Maark

10-13-2007 09:22:55




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 Re: Piston Sleeves in reply to slowfolk, 10-13-2007 06:25:00  
If you want to remove dry sleeves and don't care if you save them- Use a welder, and weld a bead down the length of the sleeve. It will shrink and pull right out.



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msb

10-13-2007 08:06:58




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 Re: Piston Sleeves in reply to slowfolk, 10-13-2007 06:25:00  
Wet sleeves transfer heat into the coolant better than dry sleeves and are a lot less likely to have hot spots than the dry sleeves often times have.



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48C-MAN

10-13-2007 07:57:00




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 Re: Piston Sleeves in reply to slowfolk, 10-13-2007 06:25:00  
Wet sleeve is in contact with engine coolant, dry sleeve is sleeve in bore. Wet sleeve is a lot easier to pull than a dry sleeve. If overhauled without lube on the wet sleeve can damage o-ring causing coolant in oil.



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Janicholson

10-13-2007 07:17:36




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 Re: Piston Sleeves in reply to slowfolk, 10-13-2007 06:25:00  
The choice is often made as to which to use by the designer. There are reasons to choose.
Dry sleeves are less bulky and take up less of the length of an engine. This allows a designer to shorten the block (maybe 1n inch or more on a 4 cyl). This shortens the crank making it stiffer and stronger while reducing weight. The engine is still rebuildable with little cost compared to machining a bore and fitting new pistons.
Sleeve pullers are used on dry sleeves. A hockey puck shaped disk with a step in the outer diameter is placed in the bottom and a threaded rod (or hydraulic drawbar) is used to pull the sleeve into daylight.
Wet sleeves are used when the easier replacement and little concern for compactness are the case. Many manufacturers have used both (and neither, putting pistons in the block casting), for the various models and uses. JimN

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Dave H (MI)

10-13-2007 07:45:30




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 Re: Piston Sleeves in reply to Janicholson, 10-13-2007 07:17:36  
Jim, what makes a sleeve "wet"? It would seem obvious that some fluid is involved and is able to get between the sleeve and the block somehow but is it coolant or engine oil....or am I completely off base?



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Janicholson

10-15-2007 19:28:47




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 Re: Piston Sleeves in reply to Dave H (MI), 10-13-2007 07:45:30  
Wet sleeves are one piece items that seal at the top of the block, and with an Oring at the bottom. The outer diameter is directly contacting the coolant.
A dry sleeve is pressed into and "lines" a casting bore that is part of the block. The dry sleeve is thin, the wet sleeve is thick. The dry sleeve is just a wear surface, the wet is structural to the piston and combustion pressure. JimN

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glennster

10-13-2007 07:02:09




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 Re: Piston Sleeves in reply to slowfolk, 10-13-2007 06:25:00  
from personal experience, i would say dry sleeves are the harder ones to pull. there is more surface area of the sleeve in contact with the block, giving the sleeve more grip on it. many times with a wet sleeve, the cylinder head holds the top of the sleeve in on a wet sleeve, and removing the head and turning the motor over will walk the sleeves out. i dont know what motor you are working on, but if you recently did a major on it and its getting water in the crankcase, could be head gasket leaking, crack in the cylinder bore, dripping around the sleeve, could be just a head stud leaking. when i rebuild an i-h motor, before installing the head studs, like on an m, i apply a teflon based pipe joint compound or a permatex type thread sealer to the stud threads that go in to the block. what you can try to find the leak, if you have a pressurized cooling system, scoot over to the hardware store and get a schrader valve, it looks like a tire valve stem, but its threaded so you can screw it in to a fitting. remove one of the engine block drains and do a little adapting to get the valve to screw in the block. use a hand tire pump, with the radiatior cap on, pump some air in the cooling system to pressurize it, drop the oil pan and look for leaks. also, crank the engine over a few times with the spark plugs out and see if coolant comes out of the spark plug holes. once you locate the leak, then you can repair as necessary. good luck with it!!

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