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OT: Crazy landlord!

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JoeBob/IN

10-18-2007 18:40:58

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Long story short we signed a 3 year lease for 20 acres at $65/acre last year making us able to farm it for '07,'08, and '09. Written and signed by us and him plain and simple. So last week we get a certified letter from him saying his taxes went up our yields are up and our prices of grain are up so after this fall we will have to pay $90/acre or not farm it. Wouldn't return calls so my uncle goes to see him today. Claims he has a letter saying that we agreed to let him out of the lease if he sent us a letter wanting to do so... no one here remembers any letter and he refused to show it to my uncle. Said we have 3 choices, pay the $90, quit after this year, or sue him. Said if we sued he would show us the letter. So what do you do? Suing sounds stupid to me, have a lease and would end up paying more then we would get. Does he have any right to do what he is? Lately he has been in the coffee shops so I guess this is the root of all the problems. Little advice would be great. Thanks!

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James22

10-20-2007 12:42:03

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Re: OT: Crazy landlord! in reply to JoeBob/IN, 10-18-2007 18:40:58

Must be pretty poor land to rent for $65 in Indiana. Can't understand why anyone would rent so cheap unless there was no altenative. Regardless, he should have been a little more diligent when forecasting crop prices or signed a shorter contract. If you want to keep the land beyond the current contract I'd give him the extra dollars, otherwise only if I wanted to be a nice guy.

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paul

10-19-2007 19:32:15

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Re: OT: Crazy landlord! in reply to JoeBob/IN, 10-18-2007 18:40:58

Pay your rent whenever it is due, & carry on. Will be up to him to take action to stop you. Not your problem to sue first.

--->Paul

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Leland

10-19-2007 17:10:41

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Re: OT: Crazy landlord! in reply to JoeBob/IN, 10-18-2007 18:40:58

Let him take you to court and the judge will shove the right to farm laws up his rearend so he can see the fine print better . .if he wants out of the contract make him buy you out at todays current grain prices .

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JoeBob/IN

10-19-2007 19:07:51

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Re: OT: Crazy landlord! in reply to Leland, 10-19-2007 17:10:41

Thats what I am thinkin. I think if we do prove to have the right to farm it we won't due to frivilous suits he will file... you know, the spray drifted and make his horse sick, we didn't fertilize properly and now the soil is lacking. Just want to prove our point that he is in a legal and binding contract and he will hold up his end as we have and will ours. Then shoot for the high buyout and finally spread the word many times over to teach him and others with the same thoughts a lesson. Now, had he came to us personally and tried to reason some more money that would have been one thing but to be so spinelss to send a letter and flat out say that you demand an additional $25/acre is ridiculous. I realize everyone is hearing of the $4 corn and $10 beans but right now it is $3 corn and $9 beans which is great but the $500/ton starter and $300/ton potash is takin all the profits real fast.

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JoeBob/IN

10-19-2007 10:27:39

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Updates in reply to JoeBob/IN, 10-18-2007 18:40:58

Ok, here is the way I see it. We are an incorporated farm so anyone of us can sign any papers and be legal so that takes care of why my uncle went... I was busy sittin in the combine. We have a written lease that states the date, length, number of acres, farm number, price per acre or total price or both, releases either party from liability of debt from the other party, releases either party from liability of an accident from other party and signatures of both parties. Each party gets a copy. Plain and simple. Now, we don't need to farm this sandy 20 acres thats 5 miles from us but I don't need someone bullying me around. I am a man of my word (signature) so I expect the same. We may not even farm it for the term but that will be our choice. I don't worry about what others say, we have a local weld shop where our reputation stands very tall and his just took a dive. Word spreads REAL fast through this town. The people that matter know the FACTS and know the story. It is the point that I think we are gonna make. He has no right to change the terms of the lease unless we also agree which we don't. We want to make him understand that. We won't spend a lot of money nor should we have to since we aren't breaching contract. Rent is due Nov. 1st so real soon we will send via certified mail his rent check. Now, I haven't even mentioned nor will I too much all the times he has come to use a tractor or welder or what not. We were good friends then he lost his permanent job and went to the coffee shops and now here we are.

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John T Country Lawyer

10-19-2007 11:08:02

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Re: Updates in reply to JoeBob/IN, 10-19-2007 10:27:39

As the Old Master (David Carradine) used to say in the old Kung Fu TV series "Wise choice Weedhopper" By sending the rent (certified US mail Return Receipt which he can accept or refuse at his peril, at least you made a tender) you're gonna force his hand to EITHER accept it or else be in material breach and avoid as much as possible any he said she said stuff i.e. keep it in writing,,,keep a daily detailed ledger/record of alllll l that happens along with copies of everything,,,,, .

Best Wishes, let us know

John T Country Lawyer in Southern Indiana

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John T Country Lawyer Upd

10-19-2007 08:21:22

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Re: OT: Crazy landlord! in reply to JoeBob/IN, 10-18-2007 18:40:58

PS With all this talk about Small Claims Court, you dont have a complete good cause of action (not the best one at least) until such time the landlord actually breaches the contract (although there is such thing as an anticipatory breach), so dont let yourself get in the corner where YOU and not the Landlord fails to live up to their end of the bargain. Whenever the lease calls for you to make a payment TENDER IT and let him refuse it if thats what hes gonna do (force him to accept or reject it), that way you tried to fulfill your obligations. Id send him the rent check Certified US Mail Postage Pre-Paid with the Green Card receipt so hes forced in a corner to refuse or accept it at his own peril. Once he refuses your tender, its he and NOT YOU thats in breach..... TRY TO MAKE THE PAYMENT VIA CERTIFIED US MAIL

Again, if theres an unambiguous written document with no "holes" needed to be filled by the Court, the Parol Evidence Bar does not allow oral testimony to contradict it ESPECIALLY if the lease contains the merger type clause that the writing constitutes the ENTIRE agreement among the parties....

BEST WISHES, let us know what you decide, consult a local attorney who practices Landlord/Tenant law.

PS did you sign this so called "letter"

John T Retired Engineer now Attorney

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glennster

10-19-2007 08:04:10

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Re: OT: Crazy landlord! in reply to JoeBob/IN, 10-18-2007 18:40:58

your written lease should be the priority. if its a standard cash lease document from the state that you are in, both parties must abide by the provisions in the lease. most leases have a penalty for breach of contract spelled out in the lease. if you have a hand written lease, that may be a problem. i have a tenant that cash rents property from me. one provision of the lease, is that at the end of lease the tenant must leave the property in at least as good condition as they got it in. this includes soil tests. if he claims he has a document that he alleges you signed, i would demand a copy of it. if he cannot produce it, it doesnt exist. that said, you need to stand back and look at the big picture. as this deal is going sour real quick with your landlord, it may follow you with any future property you may rent. believe me, word travels fast. as a landlord, i have a huge capital investment in my property, i want it taken care of as best as possible. you probably will be better off walking away from this guy.

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Cliff Neubauer

10-19-2007 07:26:27

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Re: OT: Crazy landlord! in reply to JoeBob/IN, 10-18-2007 18:40:58

The letter he talks about doesn't exist, I know it, you know it and he know's it or else he wouldn't be so scared to show it to you. The bad part is that like the other's have said your going to end up getting screwed no matter what. I would tell him that you have a legal contract and that you will continue to farm it as the lease say's but if he has a problem with that he can sue you to stop it. He has no legal standing so I really doubt that would happen but if it did at least it would be on public record that you were in the right when he starts running his mouth about how you screwed him later on.

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GeneMO

10-19-2007 07:21:41

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Re: OT: Crazy landlord! in reply to JoeBob/IN, 10-18-2007 18:40:58

After some thought, I was just running off at the mouth. I wouldn't really spray it with atrazine. I think too much of the land and water to really do that. Makes you want to though.

Gene

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GeneMO

10-19-2007 07:11:04

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Re: OT: Crazy landlord! in reply to JoeBob/IN, 10-18-2007 18:40:58

20 acres just aint worth the hassel. Make sure the community knows his word is not good. Before you pull off the field for the last time, spray it with 3 quarts of Atrazine an acre.

Gene

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Allan In NE

10-19-2007 07:18:32

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Re: OT: Crazy landlord! in reply to GeneMO, 10-19-2007 07:11:04

Ouch! Gene!

Next time I get in a scrap, I want you on MY side. :>)

Allan

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GeneMO

10-19-2007 08:15:52

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Re: OT: Crazy landlord! in reply to Allan In NE, 10-19-2007 07:18:32

Yeah Allen, but you see I changed my mind in the later post.

So many times you want to do things that you know you really can't,

Gene

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rrlund

10-19-2007 06:51:03

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Re: OT: Crazy landlord! in reply to JoeBob/IN, 10-18-2007 18:40:58

Hang around the same coffee shops and let everybody know what a sleezy bas*ard he is.

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10-19-2007 06:36:47

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Re: OT: Crazy landlord! in reply to JoeBob/IN, 10-18-2007 18:40:58

I would let him take you to court, you have a lease and if he wants to raise the rent, let him initiate the court precedings. As far as I can see, you have a 3 year lease, at a certain price, and if the contract you signed does not have any clauses for rent increase for taxes, etc, then I would think there is nothing he can do except honor the lease at the price for the 3 year time period. I would send him the $65.00 per acre, in the time frame of the lease aggreement, that way if he does take you to court, he cannot use the "I am breaking lease because he did not pay his lease payemnt on time" and that I would send by certified mail back to him, then again, you do not get the I did not get the payment thing thrown at you in court.
Now, to be a gentleman about this, I would ask him how much his taxes went up and if he does prove that to you, then you might want to consider working on a price adjustment. As for higher yields, that is none of his business, if your yields go down and the price of grain drops, will he drop the price of the cash rent?? I do not know what kind of ground this is that you are farming, but here in Central Illinois, $65.00 an acre is unheard of and $90.00 an acre is about 1/2 of what some ground leases for here

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Leland

10-19-2007 17:14:44

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Re: OT: Crazy landlord! in reply to JT, 10-19-2007 06:36:47

BTO from the carlinville area just paid 400.00+ per acre up around bloomington for ground next year

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havvey

10-19-2007 05:30:02

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Re: OT: Crazy landlord! in reply to JoeBob/IN, 10-18-2007 18:40:58

You need to go buy the laws of your state. Here lesees can be broken EXP. Owner died and family sold the property (you would get a settlement) #2 There is probably a better offer or a sale pending. #3 rarly will i sign for a certified letter in your case he would have had to serve papers had you refused.

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Mike (WA)

10-19-2007 08:00:09

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Re: OT: Crazy landlord! in reply to havvey, 10-19-2007 05:30:02

Havvey, you've hit on one of my "pet peeves"- not signing for certified mail. Its the legal equivalent of an ostrich burying his head in the sand. What you (and apparently about a zillion others) don't realize is that in all cases where certified mail constitutes legal notice, its the sending of the certified mail that gives notice, not receipt of it, and it doesn't matter a whit whether you pick it up or not. All you're doing is keeping yourself in the dark about something bad thats about to happen, so you can't defend yourself.

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Nolan

10-19-2007 04:09:50

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Re: OT: Crazy landlord! in reply to JoeBob/IN, 10-18-2007 18:40:58

You do have a 4th choice. Continue to abide by the existing contract. Continue to farm it, paying the agreed upon price. When the lease contract expires, don't renew.

Don't forget, you've got a legal binding contract.

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midwest redneck

10-19-2007 02:40:39

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Re: OT: Crazy landlord! in reply to JoeBob/IN, 10-18-2007 18:40:58

Walk away and say no thanks. It aint worth putting up with a *ickhead like that. Besides 20 acres is nothing.

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dhermesc

10-19-2007 05:32:19

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Re: OT: Crazy landlord! in reply to midwest redneck, 10-19-2007 02:40:39

"Walk away and say no thanks.
It aint worth putting up with a *ickhead like that. Besides 20 acres is nothing."

Agreed. Just make sure everyone knows that the man's word and signiture on a contract aint worth shat.

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kyplowboy

10-18-2007 23:51:27

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Re: OT: Crazy landlord! in reply to JoeBob/IN, 10-18-2007 18:40:58

$90 sounds pretty cheap, but I do not know your area. This is a hard one to wrap my mind around. Is 20 acres realy worth it? He hangs out in the coffee shops, that complicates it so you realy can"t win out right in the arena of public opinion. If you give the $15 you are a push over and will get a letter next year from all your other land lords. If you don"t farm it, you are a push over still. If you fight it you are a jerk. I would find a lawyer, even if you have to pay $100 for a consultation you will know where you stand. Did he put a time limit on it? How long can you let him sweat it out? If $95 is stupid high around you don"t just walk away, at least see if he will buy you out of the lease.

Good luck, and tell us how it turns out.

Dave

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davpal

10-18-2007 22:04:47

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Re: OT: Crazy landlord! in reply to JoeBob/IN, 10-18-2007 18:40:58

Plain and simple, tell him to kiss your azz. I would be lucky if I got out of there without slapping him up a little bit too. 20 acres isn't worth dealing with a guy like him. Even if you win it will be a hollow victory and you will still have to deal with him for the next three years. Run like a river with a snowmelt!

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T_Bone

10-18-2007 20:42:39

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Re: OT: Crazy landlord! in reply to JoeBob/IN, 10-18-2007 18:40:58

Well JoeBob, our water company got a 100yr lease on a well site and we sunk $120,000 into a new well system for a 1/4a. The owner waited until we were all done then he's had us in court 5 times trying to break the lease, legal or illegaly (threaten to shoot board memebers)

Our lease was prepared by a attorney that has many years experience in this type of lease. Were just now after the 5th time allowed to collect our costs for winning each case, about $15000 so far. Since that's the only property they own, bankruptcy laws protects them so were out of luck on getting any money from them. They use "free legal aid" to sue us.

Now we have to send two people at a time and usually have to call the sherrif for access assistance. Will we ever resolve the problems? Probably not they tell us as his common law wife has been judged lunie tunes and she has rights we don't have.

T_Bone

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RodInNS

10-18-2007 20:30:52

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Re: OT: Crazy landlord! in reply to JoeBob/IN, 10-18-2007 18:40:58

Sue him, and when you beat him, sue him for your costs too. Then when the lease is up, get out and don't go back.
Sounds to me like he knew the deal and now he doesn't like it. Sometimes life sucks like that.
If he'd come and talked about it first instead of sending a letter, mabey it would be open for some discussion...
If he wants to play the big boy, so be it. He needs a lesson taught to him.
We deal with several people around here on verbal agreements and don't pay rent on too many pieces either. Mind you, land is not in big demand here, but none of these people are hard to deal with anyway. There's no need for what he pulled.

Rod

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135 Fan

10-18-2007 20:04:27

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Re: OT: Crazy landlord! in reply to JoeBob/IN, 10-18-2007 18:40:58

I'm not a lawyer but from what you said it sounds like this landlord want's a piece of your profits. He may have talking to others that received higher rents or about how good the crops and prices for them were. In any legal dealings I've had or seen the party who is asking for something will have either their lawyer call you directly or send a letter on the lawyers letterhead. If there was in fact an additional document this would be mentioned and in most cases a copy would be included with the letter. I would hold tight until you get something official from his lawyer and then get your own lawyer to look it over. There's lots of greedy people who will try to scam you if they can. It is also possible someone has offered your landlord more for the land. As long as you have a copy of the lease agreement it is his responsibility to provide any additional documents if he wants to change any terms of the lease. Legal advice might be your safest way of checking everything out. Most lawyers will give a half hour free consultation. Up here we have a lawyer referral number you can call to get the names of 3 lawyers experienced in the type of law you need. All the lawyers in the referral network have to give the half hour free consultation. Hope this helps. From your post it looks pretty hokey. Good luck! Dave

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Thack

10-18-2007 19:54:21

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Re: OT: Crazy landlord! in reply to JoeBob/IN, 10-18-2007 18:40:58

Offer to let him buy you out of the remaining years for $200.00 per acre, settle for $150-$175.00. If he refuses, file a claim in Small Claims court in the county in which he resides.

I get the feeling you feel bad about defending yourself...you should not! There is probably a BTO on the other side of that offer seeing how easy you will roll over.

Stand up for yourself!

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davediehl@hotmail.com

10-18-2007 19:41:51

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Re: OT: Crazy landlord! in reply to JoeBob/IN, 10-18-2007 18:40:58

Couple things:

If you signed anything, you should have a copy of it. If you threw it away, your fault. If there was nothing signed see step 2.

Step 2: Why did you send an uncle for something you signed. I probably wouldn't show something to someone that didn't have his/her signature on it.

Then visit a legal advisor. There are some that work for the courts as volunteers. Check with your local court to see what resources may be out there for you.

Your local county treasury office should have tax information. That info is open for public viewing, its not sealed.

Then with that info in hand, call this guy and see if he's willing to talk. If he's not, then legal action may be required. If you give it all up, I'd make darn sure there was a soil sterilizer dumped/sprayed on the field. That should remedy anything for the next 4 to 5 years. Since you are the person farming the property, you can do that.

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Dr phil

10-19-2007 05:19:41

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Re: OT: Crazy landlord! in reply to davediehl@hotmail.com, 10-18-2007 19:41:51

soil sterilizer Dave do you have issues? Was the coffee shop closed this AM?

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Sid

10-18-2007 20:28:45

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Re: OT: Crazy landlord! in reply to davediehl@hotmail.com, 10-18-2007 19:41:51

"I'd make darn sure there was a soil sterilizer dumped/sprayed on the field. That should remedy anything for the next 4 to 5 years." I just can't think of words to describe just how childish, I think that remark is. I hope when you get in uniform you are a lot more mature than that. Are you the real "davediehl"?

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jason, NW Ontario

10-19-2007 04:12:17

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Re: OT: Crazy landlord! in reply to Sid, 10-18-2007 20:28:45

Agree with Sid - such an irresponsible comment. Poisoned soil equates to poisoned ground water.

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MN Scott

10-18-2007 21:07:12

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Re: OT: Crazy landlord! in reply to Sid, 10-18-2007 20:28:45

Sid, Daves comments are just what I would expect from a State Patrol DOT gestapo cop. A lot of them 'not all' bend or partially inforce unwritten laws to suit ticket quotas, personal grudges or just simpally god complexes. For a law enforcement official to make a statement of appliying a soil sterilizer to land that the person does not own shows his total disrespect of the law and personal property, typical of a DOT gestapo cop.

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Lee in Iowa

10-18-2007 19:41:16

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Re: OT: Crazy landlord! in reply to JoeBob/IN, 10-18-2007 18:40:58

I'm no lawyer, but I would say you have a fourth choice, just keep paying the agreed upon rent and farming the land for the duration of the agreement. If he doesn't like it let him initiate the lawsuit. Maybe it will harm your reputation with other or potential landlords, but maybe it won't, they might respect you for standing your ground. That is my perspective and I am both a landlord and a tenant. Lee

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MarkB_MI

10-18-2007 19:51:49

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Re: OT: Crazy landlord! in reply to Lee in Iowa, 10-18-2007 19:41:16

I agree with Lee. A lease is a lease and he can't terminate it without cause. As long as the rent is paid, he can't block you from farming the property without going to court. And if he tries, you call the Sheriff.

Now chances are, somebody made him a better offer. You can always make an offer to let him buy you out of the lease. Say if he refunds you one year's rent you'll walk away from the lease.

I don't suppose there's a right of first refusal clause in the lease? Maybe somebody offered to buy the property. 20 acres isn't much farmland, but it's certainly big enough to develop.

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doug in illinois

10-18-2007 19:31:02

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Re: OT: Crazy landlord! in reply to JoeBob/IN, 10-18-2007 18:40:58

Are you sure you want to continue a lease with someone like that? Got kicked off one piece of hay ground last fall, the husband and wife basically don"t communicate and had verbal approval from her to sickle bar down a small patch of corn for decorating stalks and squirrel corn. He had other ideas, or so he said. Think truth is out of state hunters probably offered him big $$$ for the corn to remain standing to hunt deer. Still have several pieces of equipment there, he is denying access. Anyhow, if he is getting greedy with you I would have second thoughts about enforcing the lease. Doug

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4010guy

10-18-2007 19:28:11

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Re: OT: Crazy landlord! in reply to JoeBob/IN, 10-18-2007 18:40:58

JoeBob/IN
please Disregard my reply and read MR John t country lawyer. ;o)

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4010guy

10-18-2007 19:21:09

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Re: OT: Crazy landlord! in reply to JoeBob/IN, 10-18-2007 18:40:58

Well first of all i would have to say your land lord isn't crazy,,,Hes a sounds like a flaming lunatic..... That being said I would say the land lord doesn't have a foot to stand on as a contract is binding for both party's so you can farm it for the years said for the amount said and if you dropped it early and say he wasent able to re rent it for your agreed amount you would be liable for the difference.
Now for 20 acres witch doesnt sound like a very big tract is it worth it to fight it and make an issue out of it and take the chance of making yourself look bad in the eyes of other potential land lords when in two more years in all reality your going to be out of there anyway.
I would say he sound like a jerk and might someday find himself finding it hard to find a renter.
This is just my humble opinion but out here in nw ND i rent my farm land out and even with these good prices i treat my renters damm good and am thankful to have them,,,the farms are getting bigger all the time and the farmers are getting fewer and fewer and i have seen two cases right along side me ware the landlords jerked guys around and the land went UN RENTED for two or three years untell one tract was sold below market value and the other tract was rented for 15 dollars when it should have brought 25 or 30.

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steve from mo - dangit!

10-18-2007 19:02:56

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Re: OT: Crazy landlord! in reply to JoeBob/IN, 10-18-2007 18:40:58

If you take advice from us non-lawyers you will be in the same position as the landlord. You really need competent legal advice. One gambit would be to have someone remind him of the penalties for fogery - if you are sure you didn"t write that letter.

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