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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

Fuel mileage - US cars and European diesel versions

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jdemaris

12-19-2007 12:59:50




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I found this pretty interesting. Especially with all the hype about hybrids in the U.S. Info from the following study:

European variants of US cars average 60% better gas mileage by Steve Austin -
2007/06/04

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supera3

12-19-2007 18:26:25




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 Re: Fuel mileage - US cars and European diesel versions in reply to jdemaris, 12-19-2007 12:59:50  
TO get a toyota diesel truck in the U.S. buy the front "clip" with engine from overseas, parts are legal. Then remove the gas engine in your truck and install the diesel.



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edss!

12-19-2007 17:52:10




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 Re: Fuel mileage - US cars and European diesel versions in reply to jdemaris, 12-19-2007 12:59:50  
Do you suppose the gas tax might have something to do with it?



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RayP(MI)

12-19-2007 16:29:19




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 Re: Fuel mileage - US cars and European diesel versions in reply to jdemaris, 12-19-2007 12:59:50  
Congress just passed another law requiring even higher fuel economy standsrds. Auto engines are already pretty well at the edge efficiency with today"s eigineering. Where are we going do to meet these new standards? Without the infusion of new technology, not now available, we can only go so far. The only ways to make cars more efficient are to make them lighter, smaller, and more technologically advanced. These changes will certainly make the cars much more expensive, far more dangerous in crashes, and smaller and more user unfriendly. Congress hasn"t done us any favors!

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M Moline Fan

12-19-2007 18:27:58




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 Re: Fuel mileage - US cars and European diesel versions in reply to RayP(MI), 12-19-2007 16:29:19  
I heard President Bush make the radio announcement like it was a great advance, with just the stroke of a pen! Then I have to think how this country tore out a bunch of railroad tracks (trains are about 10 times more fuel efficient than trucks). Worse yet, how much freight is moved by planes? And, when Pres. Bush travels it takes a 747. How fuel efficient is that?



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massey guy

12-26-2007 05:06:26




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  fuel mileage in reply to M Moline Fan, 12-19-2007 18:27:58  
this might be easy with a pen as he can then relax the emission standards and make big corp more money. We have come a long way from 70,s in mileage as you remember 74 they had emission for first time and a new pickup I had wouldn.t get 10 miles to the gallon.



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RayP(MI)

12-19-2007 16:33:00




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 Re: Fuel mileage - US cars and European diesel versions in reply to RayP(MI), 12-19-2007 16:29:19  
PS: there is a reson why everything in my driveway is 4wd. Like when I need to forge thru 8" of snow to the back of the farm. Or pull hay wagons, loaded. Or when wife comes home on unplowed roads at midnight. Or when I have to take the whole family somewhere - some of us are taller than 5' 6"!



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jdemaris

12-19-2007 17:40:47




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 Re: Fuel mileage - US cars and European diesel versions in reply to RayP(MI), 12-19-2007 16:33:00  
Every vehicle on my property in the winter is also 4WD, it has to be or we'd never get home most days. That being said, I'd love to have a turbo-diesel 4WD Subaru or equiv. that can get 30-50 MPG instead of 18-23 MPG, or a mid-sized 4WD or SUV turbo-disel truck capable of 40 MPG.



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jamesinok

12-19-2007 14:10:21




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 Re: Fuel mileage - US cars and European diesel versions in reply to jdemaris, 12-19-2007 12:59:50  
Just got back from a trip to Europe. Seen a lot of so called smart vehicles. I would have to lose 100 lbs to get in one. I tried. Like to never got out. In Athens, Greece, to clean the air, they have done away with industry. No more industry in the city, only shipping. Cars were parked 3 abreast, ledave your cell number on the windshield of car parked next to you, when they needed out, call you, you move they leave, you get the parking spot. Rode around some in a VW diesel van, extremely moderate hill,shifted 4 gears down going up the hill. I will personally pay for the gas. James

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Mathias NY

12-19-2007 13:56:24




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 Re: Fuel mileage - US cars and European diesel versions in reply to jdemaris, 12-19-2007 12:59:50  
You will notice that the Euro versions are all Diesel and the US version are all gas. Auto makers like VW have a diesel versions for sale in the US that get similar milage to the Euro engine, but are banned in many US states for emissions reasons. It seems that the EPA is focused on reducing particular types of emissions and not overall consumption. In NYS for instance, you are no longer able to buy a new car with a diesel engine. You can still buy one from out of the state, but it must have a certain number of miles on it before it can be registered here. Its not that the technology doesn't exist, it is just being ignored in the US.

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Thack

12-19-2007 16:36:06




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 Re: Fuel mileage - US cars and European diesel versions in reply to Mathias NY, 12-19-2007 13:56:24  
Is that because the diesel, while getting better mpg, is producing more pollution than a gas model?



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Steven f/AZ

12-19-2007 13:31:04




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 Re: Fuel mileage - US cars and European diesel versions in reply to jdemaris, 12-19-2007 12:59:50  
FWIW, an early to mid-90's Honda Civic will easily do 45 mpg, a little tweaking to the computer and minor aero mods will bring you to 50 mpg.

The fuel-efficient vehicles have always been there - the American public wants horsepower and speed over economy.



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Dan-IA

12-19-2007 13:26:29




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 Re: Fuel mileage - US cars and European diesel versions in reply to jdemaris, 12-19-2007 12:59:50  
Well that's only half the story.

They don't have the safety requirements over there that we have in the US. More safety devices, more steel. More steel, more weight, more weight, less fuel economy.

I remember hearing on the radio that the EPA kills 20,000 people a year in vehicle accidents through their mileage regulations. And you know it's gonna get a lot worse, with the new regulations that just happened...

In any case, I'd like to see a similar chart showing US and European models of same models, indicating weight. It may be insightful.

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jdemaris

12-19-2007 17:37:26




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 Re: Fuel mileage - US cars and European diesel versions in reply to Dan-IA, 12-19-2007 13:26:29  
Most of the Euro-versions have more options and weigh more.

2008 Ford Focus US
Weights: curb weight (lbs) 2,588 0-60 in 10.1 seconds
Power: 104 kW , 140 HP SAE @ 6,000 rpm; 136 ft lb , 184 Nm @ 4,250 rpm 24/35 mpg manual, 24/33 mpg auto

2008 Ford Focus European
Power - 10 different engine including a turbo-diesel
Weight 2705 - 3219 lbs.
0-60 6.3 to 13.5 Fuel mileage - 17-43 city and 35-65 highway

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kyplowboy

12-19-2007 17:29:36




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 Re: Fuel mileage - US cars and European diesel versions in reply to Dan-IA, 12-19-2007 13:26:29  
I don"t think the EPA kills anybody in crashes. Careless drivers kill people, not unsafe cars or not wearing seat belts.



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Mike M

12-19-2007 17:59:08




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 Re: Fuel mileage - US cars and European diesel versions in reply to kyplowboy, 12-19-2007 17:29:36  
Don't forget all the cellphone users ! they talk or text while driving down the road.



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in-too-deep

12-19-2007 13:24:42




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 Re: Fuel mileage - US cars and European diesel versions in reply to jdemaris, 12-19-2007 12:59:50  
I believe there was a conspiracy being tossed around about the gummint not letting more economical vehicles onto the market because it would hurt the oil companies pocketbooks which would in turn hurt the politicians pocketbooks. I dunno. I tend to not get wrapped up in the badmouthing of the government too much, but WHY in the WORLD aren't these vehicles available to us? ESPECIALLY the Ford and Chrysler!!

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in-too-deep

12-19-2007 13:25:48




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 Re: Fuel mileage - US cars and European diesel versions in reply to in-too-deep, 12-19-2007 13:24:42  
Which brings me to my next question...how expensive/difficult would it be to import one of the Euro versions?



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mjbrown

12-19-2007 15:18:15




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 Re: Fuel mileage - US cars and European diesel versions in reply to in-too-deep, 12-19-2007 13:25:48  
Impossible. They make it extremely difficult to bring one in from Canada.



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doug in illinois

12-19-2007 15:44:48




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 Re: Fuel mileage - US cars and European diesel versions in reply to mjbrown, 12-19-2007 15:18:15  
As you said, impossible. Wish there were a few exemptions, with the agreement the vehicle could never be resold. I am a rural mail carrier, and would like to be able to import a right hand drive vehicle for the mail route, but because of DOT, FHTSA, and several other agencies, it cannot be done. There are some companies importing the little Jap mini trucks for around the farm use, but not road legal. Would sure be nice if farmers could get a legal right to use one of these on the road, with maybe a reasonable distance restriction. Same thing for rural mail carriers, RHD for route only or to a repair facility within reasonable distance. Just wishing, it will never happen. DOUG

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Sid

12-19-2007 20:04:51




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 Re: Fuel mileage - US cars and European diesel versions in reply to doug in illinois, 12-19-2007 15:44:48  
"I am a rural mail carrier, and would like to be able to import a right hand drive vehicle for the mail route, but because of DOT, FHTSA, and several other agencies, it cannot be done. " I guess I must be dreaming when I see right hand Jeeps on the road every day, specially when my mail carrier drives by.

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Sid

12-19-2007 20:04:30




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 Re: Fuel mileage - US cars and European diesel versions in reply to doug in illinois, 12-19-2007 15:44:48  
"I am a rural mail carrier, and would like to be able to import a right hand drive vehicle for the mail route, but because of DOT, FHTSA, and several other agencies, it cannot be done. " I guess I must be dreaming when I see right hand Jeeps on the road every day, specially when my mail carrier drives by.

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Sid

12-19-2007 20:04:01




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 Re: Fuel mileage - US cars and European diesel versions in reply to doug in illinois, 12-19-2007 15:44:48  
"I am a rural mail carrier, and would like to be able to import a right hand drive vehicle for the mail route, but because of DOT, FHTSA, and several other agencies, it cannot be done. " I guess I must be dreaming when I see right hand Jeeps on the road every day, specially when my mail carrier drives by.

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kyplowboy

12-19-2007 17:35:35




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 Re: Fuel mileage - US cars and European diesel versions in reply to doug in illinois, 12-19-2007 15:44:48  
I have always wondered that one myself. I have a buddy who's wife is a rural mail carrier. He keeps a car in the barn as a beer drinking project for her next ride. Have been some fun nights "rig'n" up linkages for her cars. The in town mail people have the little jeeps, but why can't rural carriers import something like the Jap trucks?

Dave



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Grub

12-19-2007 13:12:23




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 Re: Fuel mileage - US cars and European diesel versions in reply to jdemaris, 12-19-2007 12:59:50  
I think the time is right to put put a diesel in all the half-ton pick-ups chasing around. for the guys who tow loads all day for work the Cummins and Powerstrokes are available. for the Cowboy Cadillacs that are more people mover than hauler a 4 cyl diesel would be nice.

Grub



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dhermesc

12-19-2007 14:05:25




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 Re: Fuel mileage - US cars and European diesel versions in reply to Grub, 12-19-2007 13:12:23  
Ford has a V6 diesel designed for the F150, but government emissions regulations may have already killed it. For a short time the Jeep Liberty could be had in diesel form - but its no longer available.



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Mike M

12-19-2007 17:57:51




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 Re: Fuel mileage - US cars and European diesel versions in reply to dhermesc, 12-19-2007 14:05:25  
From what little I heard about them the mileage was terrible ! Not anything like we hear about from overseas.



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Tramway Guy

12-19-2007 14:36:41




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 Re: Fuel mileage - US cars and European diesel versions in reply to dhermesc, 12-19-2007 14:05:25  
The Jeep Liberty used a Mercedes Engine. The sale of Chrysler out of the Daimler group probably had something to do with dropping the engine.
The other reason is the "Tier 3" regulations which has also caused VW to leave the market with their Jetta Diesel until later in 2008.



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Dave from MN

12-19-2007 13:01:43




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 Re: Fuel mileage - US cars and European diesel versions in reply to jdemaris, 12-19-2007 12:59:50  
Hmmmmm mmmmm!



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