right of way - power lines OT

I received a letter this week from Ala Power that they were planning to remove trees on the edge of the ROW but instead of using a center line, they planned to use a measurement of 62.5 feet from one of the power lines. Obviously, if the power line is exactly 37.5 feet from the center point, their approach would be accurate. However, I am concerned that their approach based on a point in the air is not very accurate and they will be removing trees outside the 200 feet ROW.

Any suggestions?

I concur with JD and John T, very important to be up front and early with dotting your I's and crossing your T's, especially with any correspondence, communication and or legal notification. County records and or wherever land records are maintained should provide you with the documents that contain the specifics of your rights and the power company's rights. By all means, like most situations similar to this, you must be compelled to get all the information and read it carefully, and as many times as needed or by legal counsel so you are fully aware of what the facts are. That in mind, you are now prepared at least, but I think it's also fair to say you would want to resolve any and all issues without getting into a dispute if at all possible.

Also fair to say you are dealing with a large corporate entity, with a legal staff, forestry and right of way department and so on. I can also state that they certainly prepared the documents to be clear about their rights here, although they admit openly I could have fought them on some things, it would only delay the process, and the inevitable. Even D.E.C., ( they were within a wetland buffer) was not to hard on them, and I could have probably thrown a wrench in the works in regards to the 150'-0" tower they erected, possibly with the towns zoning, direct sightline of my home etc. but that corporate wheel would eventually rolled through, these power lines represent large revenue to these companies, and was badly needed by the local college here R.P.I., a well renowned engineering school.

Recent events on the parcel already containing 115,000 volt and 30,000 volt circuits bisecting our place, included installation of an additional 30,000 volt circuit, new utility poles, adjacent to the older steel towers carrying the 115 lines, and 2 new 150'-0" high steel towers to cross our 20 acre pond. There was a substantial amount of work done and presence by various subcontractors of the power company. By virtue of the deed written when the land was sold many moons ago, I have to provide them access to their parcel, it's several hundred yards in, and land locked. In short, there was a lot of activity for several years, that was completed early last summer.

I think one of the most important aspects of a situation like this, is to get involved and stay involved, let all parties know that there is a landowner presence, and that their activities on site are being monitored by that landowner, who will report or make issue of any problems, conflicts, damages etc.

At our place I made sure to get to know each foreman from all the subcontractors, met with the right of way agent prior to the actual start of construction, during and at the close out of their work. The line crew, was a bit hasty, and a little rough around the edges, production was important to them more than anything else, but all were still quite professional, and everyone involved from beginning to end did a good job, without any problems at all, and to my benefit, I was afforded use of a backhoe on weekends for some 3 months, several hundred tons of crushed stone, clean fill, old western cedar poles left for my use, and some very respectable cooperation across the board, with only the minor inconvenience of a damaged culver pipe, some ruts and a sign post sheared off, all of which was replaced or improved, they installed 2 new gates with double posts each side to help control the tresspassing problem, and reviewed my safety concerns about the 115 lines being low, so forth and so on. The only reason it went like this was because I took an active role to maintain a presence, did try to assist and help them where possible, all the people at the power company were of good nature and of good faith, showing respect to the landowner, suprising as it may be. The Asplundh ( forestry and restoration crew) were absolutely the nicest people, from the initial clearing of brush and the restoration when they left. It was appreciated, yet I know not all will be so pleasant to deal with, do your part and stay involved at all times.

On the dimensions from center line of easement, I would demand that they provide reference points, meaning that they survey the parcel and have valid reference points to measure from. They do have the to right to clear any trees that endanger their lines here, it's probably a boiler plate clause in most of these kinds of agreements, but even here they did survey and I checked their dimensions, they might have cut a few trees I'd have liked to dispute but for the most part they stayed aligned with the measurements. According to the right of way agent, their towers and utility poles are set to a tolerance that closely resembles a monument, hard to believe but might be true, I'd have to see the section of the drawings for this circuit to confirm it here, but it's another way to reference a known point, I'd get them to survey it to be sure.

That certainly is a good idea that still doesn't work all the time.

Here is one example here in Otsego County New York - happened last year. I'll try to be brief.

I have a 100 acre parcel out back with a 75 foot wide strip cutting through that National Grid owns - it is NOT an easement. It has direct access to two town roads and carries high-voltage transmission lines.

They came to my house and asked permission to build a "temporary" one-time use road through one of my fields and woods to makes things easier on an update they wanted to do. I refused at first, and told them to use their own, already existing access. They said their job would be much easier if they used my land for access instead.

After some serious discussion - I showed them a logging path I had been using. It's a spot I had personally planned on improving someday. I told them, that if they wanted to improve that path, put in proper drainage and gravel, and gate it - I'd let them build it - and we came to agreement. No trees needed to be removed, just some trimming.
I also made it absolutely clear - that when the time came for construction to start - to call me and I'd walk them through one more time to make sure they got it all right. I also took the time to flag the road the entire length.

A few weeks later, I heard some engines running far off in the woods. I own several parcels and the proposed road area is pretty far from my home. I went in to look - and found many trees cut down, a new road half-way pushed through - about 50 to 100 feet from the proposed logging path. The guys doing the work were Alsplundh - and a French Canadian company with a few guys that did not speak English. I made them leave with their stuff - except for one crawler-crane machine that had been rolled in one of my fields - making a mess and also spilling oil. I chained that machine to a tree. I ordered everybody off my property. Later that day, National Grid sent their security people to my house and threatened me (verabally). I told them to leave also, and they then called the New York State Police. When the police arrived - I showed them my deeds proving ownership - and the power company guys had nothing to show. The cops said this was a civil matter - not criminal - and they were not getting involved - and left. I could go on and on, there's much more to it. I demanded a cash payment for damage - and got it before the chain came off. A hazmat team had to come for an oil spill clean up. After all was done - still with a new road in the wrong place - the power company came back, installed a gate with their own lock on it - on my property. I called them and told them I was going to cut it off - and they again threatened me and I did it anyway. I cut it off, put my own lock on , and it's been there ever since.

One added note. A short time later - deer season opened and one morning I found a couple of guys with four-wheelers and a National Grid key - trying to open my gate. The key did not fit - obviously and I threw them out.

Many months later, a guy knocked on my door who is paid by the same power company to inspect the lines via ATV. He was a sub-contractor and a nice guy. I told him the story - and then, let him in since he had asked permission. He later gave me a bunch of "freebie" gifts, e.g. a couple coils of new rope, a carton of electrical tape, six pairs of work gloves, and a carton of saftey-sunglasses. All as a good-will gesture - and all was well accepted. He can come back, anytime.

At this moment, Verizon is threatening to sue me. That because I clipped an underground phone line that was buried 12" deep in the middle of one of my cornfields - and not marked. They too, have tried several times to bully me via a subcontrator. They first asked me to pay over $3000 for the repairs - and I refused. When it had happened, I got out my own backhoe and helped them fix it with my labor, fuel, and time. They later billed me for backhoe service - believe it or not. I turned around and sent them a bill. I don't know when this will all end. I am covered by my farm and home insurance policy - but the company's adjuster has agreed with me - that I (nor the company) is liable - so we'll see what happens. One note to anyone who digs and hits and underground cable. Read the law and statue carefully. It usually only applies to third-party contractors - and NOT homeowners. It also, does NOT apply to farm tractors with plows or farmers doing farm-related work.

The situation with your road and those kind of dealings with these people is sad state of affairs, and I think we've gone astray a bit here but probably fine to share experiences, landowner issues and rights sure seems to fire us up though !

It just makes you think, well no permission would be granted until the power company designed the road, provided plans, specifications, and contract documents were provided, agreeable to both parties, prior to execution and or performance of any and all work on site, including providing insurance etc. Well, you get the drift, everything by the book, in writing or there will be a dispute from the onset.

They had to build a road here, just improved our old farm road, but I did the layout and I cut the trees myself, left what I wanted to stay and worked right along side there earth work crew, they were told up front to take care of the land owner, extra crushed stone was brought in and the material they were required to take out after the job was done was also given to us and my neighbor the farmer.

It may have been due to the close proximity to the wetland, as to why they were so professional but even at the very end, there was a guy showing up to inspect the seeded areas to make sure it was taking root and growing. It was funny that one day equipment just showed up and no one had spoken to me yet, I made sure that nothing was going to take place until the right of way agent came to the site with all the documents in hand for review, they honestly kept their word, kind of shocking, and I can tell you had I even got the slightest feeling they were going to steamroll us here, I'd have made sure they would have regretted stepping foot on our property.

I think it was fortunate that everyone involved kept there word and contributed to doing a good job, having been in the construction industry my entire life, I know this not to be the case and what you described shows the complete opposite, which makes a good point about taking every precaution up front, sad but true, talk is cheap.

Not having read the easement nor researched the laws specific to your jurisdiction, which is whats required to render a worthwhile professional legal opinion (and prior to that dont hang your hat on any lay or even professional unresearched opinions posted here) I will offer a few things for your consideration.

YOU BEST PLACE THE UTILITY ON NOTICE OF YOUR CONCERNS, POSITION AND DEMANDS beforeeeee eeeee e THEY CUT THE TREES. Because once its done, it will be harder then ever to get any satisfaction. Notice can play a big part in litigation especially when your position and claims become known to the utilitys legal staff. If the recorded easement is specific as to what n where they have the right to clear you are in pretty good position should they go beyond their rights HOWEVER the easement language is critical and the next step a lawyer would have to do is research the case law to see what precedents have been established in your jurisdiction that are relevant to your specific situation AND THE EASEMENTS LANGUAGE. For instance I wouldnt be one bit surprised if the easement language drafted by the utility had some catch all phrases that lets them get by with exactly what they intend to do on your land THAT MAY WELL BE THE CASE so dont get your hopes up. Usually the utility has plenty of high powered attorneys on staff or retainer and rest assured THEY MOST LIKELY WOULDNT BE CUTTING WHAT THEY CANT GET BY WITH LEGALLY GRRRRR RRRRR RRRRR

NOWWWWW say your attorneys research discovered similar situations where the utility did what you put them on notice of protest against anD thE landowner was awarded damages AND MORE IMPORTANT if when you notified them you cited them that case or related statute NOW THAT WOULD REALLYYYYY YY GET THE ATTENTION OF THEIR LEGAL STAFF BELIEVE MEEEEE EEEEE .

Finally my best free legal advice for the present UNTIL YOU SEEK LOCAL QUALIFIED COUNSEL who can research the issue and read the easement is that IT DONT HURT YOU ONE BIT AND MAY EVEN HELP if you go ahead and place them on notice of your concerns and demands..... . This doesnt require hiring an attorney and no more then the cost of a certified US mail letter with return receipt (green card) requested. Such gets more attention then a non certified letter and it may even reach their legal staff before it hits the trash can lol

Again, knowing the utility who drafted the easement and how their attorneys operate they usually dont go out n do things that cant get by with (even if to a lay person it dont sound legal) buttttt ttttt theres no harm n it may even help you by your protests BEFORE they cut the trees cuz once its done it may cost more in legal fees to fight then its worth, which is yet one more thing in their favor grrrrr rrrrr

Best wishes, consult a local attorney

John T Attorney in Indiana

In many cases, their policy is to bully people - and they often get away with it. I chained some of their equipment to a tree on my land awhile back. They - National Grid called the State Police and we had a little "show-down" and I won. A rep from the company made a cash payment to me - before I unhooked the chain.

It goes like this. You have to know the legal rights of both parties. You cannot assume anything - including what they may, or may not tell you. If there is an easement for those powerlines - it is in writing somewhere and you need to read it, word by word, carefully. It will be filed under the name of who ever owned the property at the time the easement was granted.

Historically, large power companies use to slip wording into such right-of-ways like "we retain the right to clear brush and trees that effect power line transmission - and that need shall be determined by us." Such a statement is very open-ended and could be interpreted to give them permission to do anything, anywhere on your land. Later easements - when property owners paid more attention - are often much more specific. I have one now that grants the power company a 100 foot width of clearance for transmission lines. No vegetation of any kind is to be removed beyond that point without landowner permission. No vegetation within the right-of-way can be killed with chemicals, and - and brush that's been cut must be removed.

Another problem is until certain easement language is so over reaching that it violates public policy as decidecd by a court THEY WIN IN THE MEANTIME GRRRRR RRRRR

I still have to e mail you pics of my old radios we talked about before

Merry Christmas

John T